What happened to the Gifts of the Magi?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Arizona_Mike
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Interesting. I always imagined the gold would have been used to establish themselves in Egypt. The myrrh and frankincense were used as balms for healing purposes. I can imagine that being needed for a baby. Also to anoint the dead. I assumed some would have gone for that purpose at the time of His death.
 
Interesting link.

According to the visionary Mother Mary Agreda in the 16th C. The gifts were divided into thirds, with 1/3 going to the temple, 1/3 going to the poor, and they kept the remaining third. But if that link is correct, perhaps the remaining 1/3 was kept as a reminder of the Nativity, and simply treasured.
 
I had never heard of this relic previously, but it is possible. A poor couple in Nazareth would not have dared to show such expensive items to neighbors at all. Either Herod Antipas’ tax collectors or the Romans would have confiscated them, if they knew they had them. Possible, yes. Probable – don’t know, but an interesting idea that they are still in existence!
 
Here’s one possible explanation. Matthew is one perspective of the nativity and contains these symbolic items that Jews would recognize (he’s targeting the Jews in his writing). It may have been significant to them. Luke’s nativity perspective doesn’t have these three items, and they are shepherds. Luke, a historian and doctor, asked the whole area about Jesus and where he was born. So it seems that Luke’s perspective may have been more accurate. Regardless of the details, there’s the historical perspective and the symbolic perspective. We can pin-point the details, but the symbolic point is Christ was born.

Matthew’s account is kind of interesting - he just says Jesus was born in a house and that was it. In Luke, he gives this very vivid nativity scene. I guess it’s like the quote that says “give us a few facts, and give us a good story!” So the point is the items may have just been symbolic for the author of Matthew to relate to the Jews.
 
aicirt said:
Interesting. I always imagined the gold would have been used to establish themselves in Egypt. The myrrh and frankincense were used as balms for healing purposes. I can imagine that being needed for a baby. Also to anoint the dead. I assumed some would have gone for that purpose at the time of His death.
Click to expand...
I think that you are the only right with this matter. Since the Magi broght the gifts and then they left, and almost immediatelly the Holy Family was warned by the angel and had to flee to Egypt. They did not give thirds to no one and did not keep them for anything except to live in Egypt properly for all the time they had to wait there until Herod’s death.

Hope this helps,
Gloria

.
 
prodromos said:
No one said they were.
Click to expand...
Then its irrelevant if anyone believes they are authentic or not. I happen not to believe.
I don’t need relics, apparitions, messages etc to keep my faith strong.

I get all I need to know about how to achieve salvation from Scared Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magesterium (all backed by God).
 
judynurse said:
I had never heard of this relic previously, but it is possible. A poor couple in Nazareth would not have dared to show such expensive items to neighbors at all. Either Herod Antipas’ tax collectors or the Romans would have confiscated them, if they knew they had them. Possible, yes. Probable – don’t know, but an interesting idea that they are still in existence!
Click to expand...
We don’t know. The Romans (unlike in the movies) didn’t go around confiscating people’s stuff. And the Galilee was in the jurisdiction of Antipas, who had his own soldiers. Although they might have paid it to toll-gatherers, who knows? 😃
Here’s one possible explanation. Matthew is one perspective of the nativity and contains these symbolic items that Jews would recognize (he’s targeting the Jews in his writing). It may have been significant to them. Luke’s nativity perspective doesn’t have these three items, and they are shepherds. Luke, a historian and doctor, asked the whole area about Jesus and where he was born. So it seems that Luke’s perspective may have been more accurate. Regardless of the details, there’s the historical perspective and the symbolic perspective. We can pin-point the details, but the symbolic point is Christ was born.
Click to expand...
Matthew’s account is kind of interesting - he just says Jesus was born in a house and that was it. In Luke, he gives this very vivid nativity scene. I guess it’s like the quote that says “give us a few facts, and give us a good story!” So the point is the items may have just been symbolic for the author of Matthew to relate to the Jews.
Click to expand...
I don’t know. I don’t think we can just say summarily that Matthew is ‘symbolic’ while Luke his ‘historical’. Sure, Luke likes to give his gospel an appearance of historicity and naturalism (explains why he’s one of the favorites! :D) but who knows? Perhaps his account is also as ‘symbolic’ as Matthew’s is. Perhaps Matthew actually has just as many, or more, ‘historical’ details as Luke has. My point is, perhaps pigeonholing is not adequate.

As for the topic, I personally also am cautious of its authenticity. Doesn’t matter whether it is in the Vatican or Mount Athos or some other holy place. But then again, I wonder if perhaps authenticity isn’t what matters here. It reminds me of that quote from Umberto Eco’s Baudolino: “It is faith that makes [relics] true, not they who make faith true.”
 
Well put! I’m not at all certain about these being the actual relics of the Magi gifts, and it seems unlikely that they’d have lasted this long – not impossible - just unlikely. Considering all the wars, the Crusades, etc… seems someone would have stolen them a long time ago. If they were actually given (gold, frankincense and myrrh) to the Holy Family, I think it’s really likely they sold them and used them for their needs in Egypt as well as the trip back to Nazareth later. I can’t imagine they’d have kept them for all the years that Mary lived. They were a poor peasant couple with a son to raise, if they had them, they probably sold them off bit by bit for their needs (like taxes!!). Certainly Antipas would have gotten them through his tax collectors if they knew they had them. It is a beautiful, possibly symbolic story, and would have meant a lot to the Jews in it’s imagery and connections to them. Whether they actually received such valuable items, I don’t know. I would treat such “relics” with respect, since quite a few people do believe in them, but our Faith doesn’t rest on their authenticity. I believe the Shroud is authentic, but if it isn’t, it doesn’t affect my faith that Jesus actually was Resurrected.
 
judynurse said:
I had never heard of this relic previously, but it is possible. A poor couple in Nazareth would not have dared to show such expensive items to neighbors at all. Either Herod Antipas’ tax collectors or the Romans would have confiscated them, if they knew they had them. Possible, yes. Probable – don’t know, but an interesting idea that they are still in existence!
Click to expand...
judynurse Are you confusing the Roman with the IRS? They may have been brutal but they didn’t have the “snoop” technology we have today and the Egyptian border was not nearly as guarded as it is today.
 
Holy Gifts of Magi Travel from Greece to Moscow

theorthodoxchurch.info/blog/news/2014/01/holy-gifts-of-magi-travel-from-greece-to-moscow/

January 2014
Within a week, about half a million pilgrims kneeled in front of the Holy Gifts of the Magi which were transferred to Russia by the Abbot of St. Paul’s monastery, archimandrite Parthenios. Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and all Russia, placed the Holy Gifts at the centre of the Cathedral in Moscow, during the Christmas Liturgy.

According to sources, more than 400,000 people kneeled in front of the Holy Gifts in Moscow. At the same time, more than 20,000 pilgrims were standing in line, waiting for up to 10 hours just to kneel in front of the Gifts. It is worth mentioning that outside the Cathedral you could find volunteers, special vehicles for hot tea, military stuff and ambulances 24 hours a day.“I kneeled in front of the Gifts and asked from the Lord to give everyone the gift of health,” mentioned a pilgrim. He also added, “I have been standing in the line for about seven hours now. However, it seems to me like one minute.”Last but not least, long lines of pilgrims were also formed in St. Petersburg, where the Holy Gifts were transferred yesterday from Mount Athos, Greece.
 
Barbara_Ann_Bau said:
judynurse Are you confusing the Roman with the IRS? They may have been brutal but they didn’t have the “snoop” technology we have today and the Egyptian border was not nearly as guarded as it is today.
Click to expand...
I was thinking of keeping the gifts in their home in Nazareth. If anyone knew they had gold and extremely valuable spices, they undoubtedly would have been confiscated by Herod Antipas’ tax collectors. I wasn’t thinking of Border Guards, although any soldiers, border guards or not, would likely have confiscated them in those times. Also, Romans often went through Nazareth on the way to Tiberius on the Sea of Galilee, and probably helped themselves to bread, wine and anything that looked valuable as they went through the village, per historical sources from archaeology and anthropology. I certainly wasn’t thinking of the IRS or the FBI in the First Century!!
 
Don’t know, but my own thoughts would have been they may have used them in their flight to Egypt.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top