What happened to the Renewal Movements?

[commenter]

In the 1970s there were several movements extremely active in my diocese and nationally. They still exist, but involve far fewer people. Why the decline?
I was a leader in one movement. I can’t rule out the possibility that leaders’ spiritual life was lacking. OK, besides that, I also think we were affected by the doctrinal context. In the early 70s we had Life in the Spirit seminars, people came in with already a solid foundation in Catholic doctrine. Contrary to my expectation, people who got their Catholic education prior to Vatican II understood the ideas of renewal better than young adults.

By the 1980s the young adults we were seeing knew almost nothing of Catholic doctrine, we had to keep backtracking to explain the whole context of doctrine, before we could even begin to talk about a point of renewal. Even people who had gotten a good doctrinal foundation years earlier seemed to forget a lot of it, or it seemed less relevant to them. My theory is that this is because basic Catholic doctrine was never reinforced in sermons, in the diocesan newspaper, etc. So (according to my theory) they regarded our renewal movement, and Catholic dogma too, as a’la’carte items on a menu, anyone could choose whatever from. Some would say our renewal activity had more authority than the Pope, which certainly did not please me. Eventually it seemed that “renewal” without a doctrinal foundation did as much harm as good, so I dropped out.

Right now I am involved in an independent Catholic school to spread orthodox Catholic doctrinal content. My old renewal movement still exists in my area, but very tiny. Other (shrunken) renewal movements exist as well, ironically all the renewal movements attract the same few, mostly elderly participants, and I bless them. I am interested in the experiences of anyone else who was in the “boom” years.

 

[Sunbreak]

I think they died a natural death. Some of us boomers were never interested in “renewal” to begin with.

 

[pianistclare]

Gimmicks never work for more than a few months.
Those who these programs target see it as a gimmick, not a process.

 

[myway]

Street Evangelizers is a great group to join if you like explaining the Catholic Church’s teachings. They preach to anyone interested. Each organization also trains people on what to teach.
streetevangelization.com/blog/2014/01/14/training-is-still-important-from-evangelii-gaudium/

I don’t know of anyone in it but I found out only through the internet.

 

[marlap2]

I believe that if a movement is docile to the Holy Spirit and is obedient to its spouse, the Church, it will continue to exist.

I just attended a Mass a few weeks ago at a church. I didn’t realize that the Mass was celebrating 20 years of Life in the Spirit Seminars until I was there. I went because I was looking for a Friday evening Mass, and needed to pray for a particular intention and really wanted to attend a Mass The church was packed. I saw more than a few people I knew, so I also attended the celebration that they invited me to after Mass. There were definitely a mix of people there, from babies to elderly, but to be honest more than a 80/20 mix of old to under 30.

A street ministry that I belong to brings to mind what you were saying. Occasionally, we get a volunteer who is there for some of the wrong reasons… Some wanted to be a “saviour” Others wanted to be a “social worker” Others wanted to change the way we did things (we were very obedient to the archdiocese and the local archbishop) In every case, these people drifted or faded away. It was as if … ahem… God did not want them there.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Actually, a parish near me has re-initiated CRHP after 20 or so years with resounding success among younger people.

These things wax and wane according to God’s purpose. The important thing is that many people deepened their commitment to Christ during a renewal program, and many have lived that commitment to this day. We should never look down on a work of the Holy Spirit when it occurs, or question a person’s commitment.

With the call to re-evangelization from the Popes, many new programs are being developed to help people learn to evangelize and bring others to Christ. The Holy Spirit knows what the Church needs at any particular time, and we need to be careful that we are not working against the Holy Spirit with negative attitudes. We have to prayerfully consider what is going on and open ourselves to the Holy Spirit. Just because one does not like something does not mean it is not of the Lord.

We as Catholics are extremely blessed to have such a variety of spiritualities to learn about and to help us grow in the Lord. We have 2000 years to draw on, and that includes the present as God continues to work in His Church.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Gimmicks never work for more than a few months.
Those who these programs target see it as a gimmick, not a process.

I must thoroughly disagree with you here. We cannot call these renewal programs “gimmicks”. The Holy Spirit has used them to bring about true conversion to Christ, lifelong and long-lasting conversions. Millions and millions of Catholics throughout the world have deepened their faith or even found it because of such movements as CRHP, Cursillo, Focolare, the Charismatic Renewal, and the list goes on and on. God gives us what is needed when it is needed.

No one claims there is no process involved. Catholics are not OSAS people. We know that when we commit our lives to Christ or recommit it, that is not the end. It is only the beginning.

 

[commenter]

We cannot call these renewal programs “gimmicks”. The Holy Spirit has used them to bring about true conversion to Christ, lifelong and long-lasting conversions. Millions and millions of Catholics throughout the world have deepened their faith or even found it because of such movements as CRHP, Cursillo, Focolare, the Charismatic Renewal, and the list goes on and on. God gives us what is needed when it is needed.

No one claims there is no process involved. Catholics are not OSAS people. We know that when we commit our lives to Christ or recommit it, that is not the end. It is only the beginning.

I agree. While many programs big in the 70s were fluff, or used the Church to further their own religious or political agenda, or confused the Holy Spirit with pop psychology, the programs you mentioned are good. We can reject the nonsense without throwing out the wheat with the chaff.

When we had our prayer group, people would come in, look around, and say “my God, this is what we’ve been looking for”. In hindsight, I think we took for granted all Catholics already had doctrine, so we focused only on Charismatic type applications, and building community; we neglected basic Catholic dogma. Our prayer group quickly shrank from about 400 weekly attendance, to about 25, with an end to our ministries. Some people went into the New Age religion, a few went to fundamentalist groups, some went into secular Peace and Justice causes, hostile to the Church.

Some joined a branch of a national Charismatic community, and are bearing good fruit. Most simply kept going only to their own parishes, hopefully bringing with them some good ideas and many, many experiences of prayer and healing. A couple vocations to the diaconate, and many marriages (including mine) were nurtured in that group before it folded. A few joined healing ministries that still flourish.

Some who found that this Renewal Group was good (true), so concluded anything advertised as renewal must be good (false). I can find a lot of good that happened but can’t help but think God intended something else, that didn’t happen. I think of the countless young adults who came there, and to similar Catholic prayer groups then. Now we have so little for young adults, and some go to non denominational churches instead.

 

[mlz]

Those that are truely faithful to the Lord will always be there…renewal is an always movement of faith within the Christian community of believers of which the Holy Spirit looks to work. As faith searches and looks to move the Holy Spirit gives direction. It sometimes increases and decreases depending on this act of faith and love but it still is there! God awaits our willingness to move in this. So…move and live in faith where He places you and EXPECT HIS abundant move of HIS HOLY SPIRIT as you show faith in the bounty of our Lord’s love and mercy wherever you live----ALLELUIA!
mlz

 

[grannymh]

This link, from the National Service Committee, Catholic Charismatic Renewal, has current information.
nsc-chariscenter.org/

 

[DebChris]

What you also see happening is that the Renewal Movements have continued to grow, only quieter as people have continued to mature in their own faith.
For the past several years, I have been overseas where I experienced the most spirit filled parish in which I had ever been. We can never depend on our own efforts to change but must rely on the Holy Spirit to change us each individually.
Renewal Movements are never meant to be an end in themselves. If the emphasis becomes less on a particular movement, it is not necessarily a bad thing as the movement and gifts become integrated into the Church as a whole.

 

[commenter]

Those that are truely faithful to the Lord will always be there…renewal is an always movement of faith within the Christian community of believers of which the Holy Spirit looks to work. As faith searches and looks to move the Holy Spirit gives direction. It sometimes increases and decreases depending on this act of faith and love but it still is there! God awaits our willingness to move in this. So…move and live in faith where He places you and EXPECT HIS abundant move of HIS HOLY SPIRIT as you show faith in the bounty of our Lord’s love and mercy wherever you live----ALLELUIA!
mlz

I agree with those who have affirmed the good work still being accomplished by renewal movements (in union with the Church), in 2015. I am also not questioning God’s continuing to work among the movements. I am simply asking why was the soil, so to speak, was seemingly so much more fertile in the 1970s than today.

My thesis is that doctrinal knowledge was far more solid then for most Catholics. Is recent doctrinal ignorance in religious education and ambiguity in preaching the reason why far fewer Catholics are responding to the genuine renewal movements now? Or is there some other reason?

 

[SyroMalankara]

I agree with those who have affirmed the good work still being accomplished by renewal movements (in union with the Church), in 2015. I am also not questioning God’s continuing to work among the movements. I am simply asking why was the soil, so to speak, was seemingly so much more fertile in the 1970s than today.

The reason is simple, in the United States, 1960-70s were when protestants were getting into their charismatic movements. Some Catholics - including clergy - attended and/or observed this (see the so-called “Toronto blessing”) and declared that they too had been ‘filled with the Spirit’. I’m sure some felt they were, others wanted to be, many were charlatans, and others just thought if it don’t hurt why not.

My thesis is that doctrinal knowledge was far more solid then for most Catholics. Is recent doctrinal ignorance in religious education and ambiguity in preaching the reason why far fewer Catholics are responding to the genuine renewal movements now? Or is there some other reason?

I’d say it’s the opposite. Out of those who went after charismatic movements in the 60s and 70s, very few remained. Many stayed Catholic and became traditional after self-study or theology cohorts, others left Catholicism for protestant sects to find the next ‘experience’, many others left Christianity altogether.

I have nothing against Charismatics per se - personally, though, I feel some pity toward them. They seem extremely sincere, but lack Apostolic foundation. Even those who are leaders, I’d say, really have to create a certain duality within themselves to balance what they know to be authentic tradition and this form of worship that came out of the 60s/70s era. In addition, there are many who play fast and loose with the Liturgy, how can that be ‘of the Spirit’, if it’s truly authentic.

 

[gachristian]

I have seen people come out of the Charismatic renewal in the Catholic Church with a relationship with Jesus whereas before they were following rituals and traditions that were not fulfilling in and of themselves. Not saying that traditions and rituals are wrong, but just that without a relationship with Jesus, they have no substance.

I saw people of different denominations come to a deeper relationship with Jesus during this time.

I see this waning in the renewal movement in other denominations as well that in the Catholic Church. I believe there is a need again, but it is God’s timing and way.

 

[SyroMalankara]

I have seen people come out of the Charismatic renewal in the Catholic Church with a relationship with Jesus whereas before they were following rituals and traditions that were not fulfilling in and of themselves.

They were still following a ritual, just one they created themselves and all agreed with among their new group.

Not saying that traditions and rituals are wrong, but just that without a relationship with Jesus, they have no substance.

That can be said for any practice, including the so-called charismatic.

I saw people of different denominations come to a deeper relationship with Jesus during this time.

That’s because they considered the charismatic practice/form more important than belief or doctrine. “Deeper relationship” seems to mean “feelings”.

I see this waning in the renewal movement in other denominations as well that in the Catholic Church. I believe there is a need again, but it is God’s timing and way.

I think that ship has pretty much sailed, except for some small pockets here and there.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I have seen people come out of the Charismatic renewal in the Catholic Church with a relationship with Jesus whereas before they were following rituals and traditions that were not fulfilling in and of themselves. Not saying that traditions and rituals are wrong, but just that without a relationship with Jesus, they have no substance.

I saw people of different denominations come to a deeper relationship with Jesus during this time.

I see this waning in the renewal movement in other denominations as well that in the Catholic Church. I believe there is a need again, but it is God’s timing and way.

Have you not noticed that the Holy Spirit is now wanting us to take what we gained from the various types of Renewal and and bring it to the world in the “New Evangelization?” The leaders of the various Evangelization programs mostly came out of the Renewals, and I know for a fact, being involved in both, that this is happening. He laid the foundation, now he is building upon it. People had to come to Christ, or renew their relationship with him before they could Evangelize. You cannot bring Christ to others without first experiencing him.

Also, we have a tendency to see the Church from our limited American viewpoint. We need to broaden our horizons. There is significant movement of the Holy Spirit in Africa and other developing countries, but their expressions of their faith would appall many.

 

[CB_Catholic]

The reason is simple, in the United States, 1960-70s were when protestants were getting into their charismatic movements. Some Catholics - including clergy - attended and/or observed this (see the so-called “Toronto blessing”) and declared that they too had been ‘filled with the Spirit’. I’m sure some felt they were, others wanted to be, many were charlatans, and others just thought if it don’t hurt why not.

I’d say it’s the opposite. Out of those who went after charismatic movements in the 60s and 70s, very few remained. Many stayed Catholic and became traditional after self-study or theology cohorts, others left Catholicism for protestant sects to find the next ‘experience’, many others left Christianity altogether.

I have nothing against Charismatics per se - personally, though, I feel some pity toward them. They seem extremely sincere, but lack Apostolic foundation. Even those who are leaders, I’d say, really have to create a certain duality within themselves to balance what they know to be authentic tradition and this form of worship that came out of the 60s/70s era. In addition, there are many who play fast and loose with the Liturgy, how can that be ‘of the Spirit’, if it’s truly authentic.

I for one, Sir, am offended, for the Spirit’s sake, that you pity us. And that you consider us lacking in Apostolic foundation. Who, after all, was in the Upper Room at Pentecost? The Apostles. Who, sir, taught and elaborated on the gifts of the Holy Spirit? The Apostle Paul. I think you are guilty of rash judgment here, since you appear to know little about it. Remember, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not just tongues and prophecy, but gifts that establish leadership and build up the Church.

And here is our Pope’s address to those at a Charismatic Convention (about halfway down the page) :

zenit.org/en/articles/pope-francis-comments-and-address-at-charismatic-renewal-convention

I would hardly say the Pope is lacking in Apostolic foundation.

 

[commenter]

Part of the reason for the decline, in my area, was the sharp decline in the number of priests available to support this, or any movement. In the 1970s there were still lots of priests who were assistant pastors, teachers, chaplains somewhere, who could set aside time for special projects and interests. Now, where I live, almost every priest is a pastor, simply from necessity. Many have huge parishes, by themselves.

 

[SyroMalankara]

I for one, Sir, am offended, for the Spirit’s sake, that you pity us.

This is what I pity, that you think you speak for or instead of the Spirit.

And that you consider us lacking in Apostolic foundation. Who, after all, was in the Upper Room at Pentecost? The Apostles. Who, sir, taught and elaborated on the gifts of the Holy Spirit? The Apostle Paul.

Do you think the Apostle Paul would recognize what people of the “Renewal” these days are doing as authentic?

I think you are guilty of rash judgment here, since you appear to know little about it. Remember, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not just tongues and prophecy, but gifts that establish leadership and build up the Church.

Sure, but I am speaking of most Renewal meetings and gatherings not leadership, the last one I went to was full of 50-70 year olds that wanted to dance at the Mass with banners and ribbons, singing happy clappy songs from the 60/70s era. The Apostle Paul would be unfamiliar with this, although he’d probably know Jewish Liturgical prayers as well as Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek and possibly some Latin.

I would hardly say the Pope is lacking in Apostolic foundation.

Have you read what the Pope referenced in your link? The Documents of Malines, Theological and Pastoral Guidelines - Chapter I
Charismatic Renewal

1. APPEARANCE AND GROWTH OF THE RENEWAL
   In 1967, a group of Catholic professors and students in the United States experienced a striking spiritual renewal accompanied by a manifestation of the charisms of the Spirit, including, but not limited to, those listed in 1 Corinthians 12.
   2 This was the beginning of what is now known as the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

There is also an entire Chapter titled: Chapter III - Special areas of theological concern

 

[DebChris]

Part of the reason for the decline, in my area, was the sharp decline in the number of priests available to support this, or any movement. In the 1970s there were still lots of priests who were assistant pastors, teachers, chaplains somewhere, who could set aside time for special projects and interests. Now, where I live, almost every priest is a pastor, simply from necessity. Many have huge parishes, by themselves.

The last time I went to a FIRE rally, the Mass was concelebrated by 2 bishops. The charismatic renewal is alive and well in NC.
When I came into the Charismatic Renewal in 1983, I had no idea what it was. I was in the middle of a personal crisis, and it drawn by the Holy Spirit as part of my healing process. I drove 50 miles one way once a week in WI simply to go a prayer meeting. I also went on monthly retreats, both charismatic and silent. Time passed.
For those unfamiliar, FIRE is an acronym for Faith, Intercession, Repentance, and Evangelization. Charismatic priests are available for confession. It was surprising to learn which parish priests were Charismatic.
The goal of any renewal is not to be a separate entity in and of itself, but to upbuild the Body of Christ. While the Renewal is less visible it may be because it is actually doing what it was called to do, the gifts are being used to build up God’s kingdom.
It is also in WI that I first heard of Cursillo, but was I unable to actually make Cursillo until 23 years later in NC. Living in the middle of the Bible belt, it also easier to talk about Faith experiences.
As mentioned in my first post, I recently returned from the Middle East where the Holy Spirit is alive and well. It may be that Americans are distracted by other things since I was one of the few Westerners that did attend Mass and other services. It is something that a taxi driver noted when he took me for a New Year’s Vigil. There I became a member of HOLD, a part of Couples for Christ. There is not only an English Charismatic Group, but Charismatic Groups in other languages as well. The church is almost always full, and the Muslim king recently donated land to build a new cathedral. There is no shortage of lay volunteers to support the priests who preside over 15 Masses in 8 different languages over the course of the weekend.