What Happens if a Pope is a Heretic?

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According to Doctor of the Church, St. Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, if the incumbent were to become a heretic, he would cease being Pope/Bishop of Rome.

This seems kind-of, sort-of, generally accepted.

What happens next, however, is another story.

The closest thing to a consensus I’ve seen, and I won’t even state that it has a majority (but it might), is that the Cardinals would hold a trial not of the Pope but rather to determine if this man was still the Pope.
Genesis315 said:
It hasn’t happened, but the closest analogy is a Pope being imprisoned (which has happened).
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It is widely reported that the Pope signed a resignation in case of is capture by the Nazis . . .
Pattylt said:
Sorry, it just made me chuckle to picture having to call in an expert to determine if he was dead…verify, ok. But determine? 😂
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There is the old tale of the 911 call from the panicked hunter:
“Oh my God, I actually shot my buddy. I think he’s dead.”
OK, sir, let’s —
“I think he’s dead. I think he’s dead.”
Sir, first let’s make sure he’s dead.
[BANG]. “OK, OK! I’ve made sure. But now what?”

😱 :crazy_face: 🤣
 
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Bellarmine gave the most popular answer - though maybe there are other solutions. Bellarmine also thought it would never happen - and he certainly knew of John XXII, Honorius I, etc.
 
dochawk said:
The closest thing to a consensus I’ve seen, and I won’t even state that it has a majority (but it might), is that the Cardinals would hold a trial not of the Pope but rather to determine if this man was still the Pope.
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The problem is that this man would still be the pope until proven otherwise. As pope, he still has oversight of the Church’s judicial system, including “trials”. And appeals.

He also could appoint new cardinals, and remove existing cardinals, before the trial started, or even during. There is no mechanism to suspend the pope’s appointment powers or supervision of the Sacra Rota just because a cardinal or bishop wants to possibly schedule a trial.

Would it take majority vote, or unanimous? Bishops or cardinals?

That would presumably be decided by the judicial system, supervised by Guess Who? In fact, the (still continuing) pope could modify canon law in the meantime. Then his modification would be the Law of the land, for papal removal, including potential removal of the incumbent.
 
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commenter said:
Would it take majority vote, or unanimous? Bishops or cardinals?
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Cardinals, at least that much seems, if not settled, the direction it would go.
commenter said:
That would presumably be decided by the judicial system,
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Nope, absolutely not. The cardinals, not vatican courts.

It would absolutely be a mess, but I have no serious doubt that the well-established Vatican games of delay would accommodate the situation, and any purported changes wouldn’t go into effect.

The key thing here is that if a heretic, he is not the pope, and would not have the power to change anything. He might well still be living in the palace, but it is not about removing him–in any way, shape, or form. If he is the pope, he cannot be removed, while if he is not, then the see of Rome is vacant and the cardinals can fill it. “Removal” is just not a factor.
 
dochawk said:
The key thing here is that if a heretic, he is not the pope, and would not have the power to change anything
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Of course, he is not identified as a heretic until he is officially determined to be such. Therefore he exercises all powers of the papacy till then, including appointing bishops and cardinals. He does not have to follow the usual drawn out process for selecting bishops, and cardinals don’t even have to be priests. If there are procedures for naming cardinals, he can modify them so he can appoint one immediately.

I don’t necessarily follow the logic that only the cardinals can determine the papal chair is vacant. But even if that’s the case, a reigning pope still can set the rules for cardinals voting.
(I mean, voting to determine if he is a heretic).

Unanimous or majority rules? All vote, or just those under 80? Would some, or all, the clergy of the Rome diocese get a vote?
 
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commenter said:
Of course, he is not identified as a heretic until he is officially determined to be such.
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No, that’s not the determination that would be made (and, for that matter, could not be made).

Rather, the determination would be made as to whether or not he was pope, which he would cease to be if he were a heretic. The distinction may seem subtle, but is quite real.

And, no, he would not be able to blithely go about exercising papal prerogatives during such a period. Pope after Pope have discovered over the centuries that the absolute monarchy isn’t as absolute as it looks from the outside.

If such a trial were actually to be happening, you could count on massive feet dragging, rejection of credentials, and every bureaucratic delaying tactic known to man (and a few more known only to the vatican).

If such a situation arose, noone would be bound by interim actions if he’s a non-pope. SO it comes back to determining, which is more delay and . . .

If he were to purport to pronounce procedures, and the cardinals were to ignore these and find him non-pope, his, well, blatherings would bind them no more than anything you or I proclaimed.
commenter said:
I don’t necessarily follow the logic that only the cardinals can determine the papal chair is vacant.
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It is the dominant speculation that it would be a function of the cardinals. If nothing else, they would be investigating the situation when it appeare3d that it might be time to exercise their duty.
commenter said:
even if that’s the case, a reigning pope still can set the rules for cardinals voting.
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Only if he’s the pope. If they ignore him and vote their own way that he isn’t pope, he still isn’t, and his “changes” weren’t real.
commenter said:
Unanimous or majority rules?
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Noone really knows . . . it would ultimately be up to them, it seems.
 
Yep, basically, whomever the Church recognizes as the Bishop of Rome, is the Bishop of Rome…period.

There’s been some bizarre theories posited by traditionalists regarding +Francis… such as he’s the validly elected Bishop of Rome, but somehow not Vicar of Christ. This is all rubbish. The Bishop of Rome alone holds the primacy, and the Church alone discerns who is Bishop of Rome. I’m not aware of a single bishop who openly questions whether Francis is Bishop of Rome.
 
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dochawk said:
There is the old tale of the 911 call from the panicked hunter:
“Oh my God, I actually shot my buddy. I think he’s dead.”
OK, sir, let’s —
“I think he’s dead. I think he’s dead.”
Sir, first let’s make sure he’s dead.
[ BANG ]. “OK, OK! I’ve made sure. But now what?”
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Thank you for sharing.
 
Personally, I’d trust Fr. Harrison over America magazine. They’re so liberal it’s disgusting.
 
What happens if a Pope is a heretic, or even an apostate?

IMHO, nothing.

The Sovereign Pontiff is exactly that. No one on earth can judge that the Pope, for whatever reason, no longer deserves to be the Pope. Once elected, no matter what he does or doesn’t do, the Pope is still the Pope until he voluntarily resigns or dies. Once you start thinking about someone being able to depose the Pope, you jeopardize the freedom of the Church and the integrity of the Faith. That is why it makes no sense to even think about deposing the Pope for not doing enough to safeguard the Faith.

Of course, it is horrible for the rest of us when the Pope does something disagreeable. But the correct answer is to simply ignore the bad and keep the good aspects of the Pontiff in question. That is really hard, especially when you feel betrayed by the Pope. But you still have to pray for him and do your best to keep your affection for him intact. In so doing you’ll gain a lot of humility, which is the currency of Heaven.
 
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