What happens if the Pope dies and there are more than 120 cardinals

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I think that only 120 cardinals are allowed to vote for a new Pope, but the Pope is about to create enough cardinals to make 125 cardinals of voting age. What would happen if he then died while there were more than 120 cardinals of voting age?
 
NFrancis said:
I think that only 120 cardinals are allowed to vote for a new Pope, but the Pope is about to create enough cardinals to make 125 cardinals of voting age. What would happen if he then died while there were more than 120 cardinals of voting age?
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120 is the limit, but since the Pope is the supreme legislator of the Church, he can exceed that amount if he wants. All under the age of 80 would vote in that scenario, just the same as if there were ten cardinals.
 
I’m sure someone has thought of this. I have no idea what the official answer is. Possibly the oldest 5 would not vote, or the 5 more recently elevated. Or they could all participate.
 
There are a few who will be turning 80 soon, including Cardinal Arinze I believe. Will 125 be enough? 🙂
 
They would all vote. As JGMendes says, the law governing papal elections, Universi Dominici Gregis, including the restriction of cardinal-electors to 120, is purely papal dictat, so popes can breach it (or, we might say, grant an indult) at will.
 
Interesting point. This fact has been considered in various things I’ve read but no conclusion has been reached. There was a time during Blessed John Paul II’s pontificate that there were more than 120 cardinals qualified to be electors. At the time of the concalve following his death this was not the case. The special papal election law says there must be no more than 120 and when it becomes a question there’s no pope to change the law.
 
MarkThompson said:
They would all vote. As JGMendes says, the law governing papal elections, Universi Dominici Gregis, including the restriction of cardinal-electors to 120, is purely papal dictat, so popes can breach it (or, we might say, grant an indult) at will.
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Then considering that no indult has been granted (or has there been?), how would the 120 rule be met if there were more than that number of electors? 120 youngest?
 
YoungTradCath said:
Then considering that no indult has been granted (or has there been?), how would the 120 rule be met if there were more than that number of electors? 120 youngest?
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Universi Dominici Gregis does not say that only 120 cardinals may vote in an election. Rather, it says that “[t]he maximum number of Cardinal electors must not exceed one hundred and twenty” (¶ 33), and then further provides: “No Cardinal elector can be excluded from active or passive voice in the election of the Supreme Pontiff, for any reason or pretext . . .” (¶ 35).

When a pope creates more than 120 cardinal electors, he has de facto dispensed with the obligation of paragraph 33. That is the “indult” I meant. The very fact of appointing a cardinal elector in contravention of the numerical limit stated in Universi Dominici Gregis constitutes a waiver of that limit. And all cardinal electors, under paragraph 35, are all entitled to vote.
 
MarkThompson said:
Universi Dominici Gregis does not say that only 120 cardinals may vote in an election. Rather, it says that “[t]he maximum number of Cardinal electors must not exceed one hundred and twenty” (¶ 33), and then further provides: “No Cardinal elector can be excluded from active or passive voice in the election of the Supreme Pontiff, for any reason or pretext . . .” (¶ 35).

When a pope creates more than 120 cardinal electors, he has de facto dispensed with the obligation of paragraph 33. That is the “indult” I meant. The very fact of appointing a cardinal elector in contravention of the numerical limit stated in Universi Dominici Gregis constitutes a waiver of that limit. And all cardinal electors, under paragraph 35, are all entitled to vote.
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Oh, I see.
 
JGMendes4049 and MarkThompson are of course correct. I seem to remember John Paul being called on his inconsistency when he appointed greater than 120 electors, and he pretty much brushed it off.

I’m not sure if this was a motivation, but the limit does apply some pressure on the pontiff to change the composition of the College of Cardinals. If the college is going to better represent the diversity of the Church, especially in the developing world, candinalates will have to be gradually stripped away from Italian hamlets that may have been important in 1700 but are pretty inconsequential now. (I count 45 Italian cardinals at present)

All that aside, I think it would make a good plot for a thriller to have various teams of assassins gunning down cardinals until there were only 120, to ensure that their cardinals didn’t get excluded from the conclave.
 
Digitonomy said:
All that aside, I think it would make a good plot for a thriller to have various teams of assassins gunning down cardinals until there were only 120, to ensure that their cardinals didn’t get excluded from the conclave.
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Be careful. Remember “The Shoes of the Fisherman” and their seeming prediction of a non-Italian Pope? But that wasn’t a bad thing.
 
Maybe the election would have to be decided by the (Italian) Supreme Court :rolleyes:
 
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