What happens the priest is a no Show?

[bpbasilphx]

\They got a gentleman that has been studying for Deacon for some 4 years to do a sort of abbreviated Mass. It was nice and actually a good experience. But, I must say, I’ve attended thousands of Masses and this has never happened. Truly unique at least for me. How about you?\

**There’s no such thing as an “abbreviated Mass”. If the Eucharist was NOT confected (consecrated) by a priest or bishop actually present, there was no Mass. Period.

So you did NOT attend a Mass of any sort.

“Mass”, as I’ve said elsewhere, is not a synonym for “any service in a Catholic Church,” as there have always been plenty of services that are NOT Masses, such as the Divine Office.**

\One other thing…we got half a wafer.\

And so you think you received only half of Christ?

 

[Like]

\They got a gentleman that has been studying for Deacon for some 4 years to do a sort of abbreviated Mass. It was nice and actually a good experience. But, I must say, I’ve attended thousands of Masses and this has never happened. Truly unique at least for me. How about you?\

**There’s no such thing as an “abbreviated Mass”. If the Eucharist was NOT confected (consecrated) by a priest or bishop actually present, there was no Mass. Period.

So you did NOT attend a Mass of any sort.

“Mass”, as I’ve said elsewhere, is not a synonym for “any service in a Catholic Church,” as there have always been plenty of services that are NOT Masses, such as the Divine Office.**

\One other thing…we got half a wafer.\

And so you think you received only half of Christ?

How come your always sarcastic?

 

[karoleck]

I go to a daily Mass,but for one reason or another it turns out that it will be a communion service-initially I am disappointed but living in a “bright lights-big city”,I get over it and usually go to an evening Mass after work in another parish.What does annoy me is if the parish advertizes a time for Mass knowing in advance that it will be a communion service.Don’t get me wrong-it is a great grace to receive Our Lord in holy communion when a priest is not available(or suddenly sick etc) to “say"Mass.Unfortunately in my mums parish the priest knowingly makes a situation where he forces a Sunday lay led service to prepare them for what might happen in the future!!!To add insult to injury he makes the people feel guilty if they travel 5 miles up the road to a different parish Mass, telling them they are abandoning their ‘’ community’’.As you well know the saying"it is the Mass that matters”-let us double our efforts to keep priests in our prayers,especially for true sheperds & not hirlings.No priest-no show.The Mass is the greatest "show"on earth,it is Christ The Priest offering himself on the cross (in an unbloody manner) in obedience to His Father.I know this is outside the thread of the topic but----.

 

[Phemie]

When it comes to Communion Services people can be really strange.

Our pastor was going to be away for two Sundays earlier this year. The Parish Council decided that Sundays weren’t important enough to be worth spending money on a replacement priest: we’d have Celebrations of the Word with Communion. BUT they would pay to fly in a priest if someone died. We had 2 or 3 members who were hanging on by a thread so there was a strong possibility that their decision meant that instead of paying once to bring in a priest for two weeks we’d pay twice or three times to fly one in for a day. Penny wise, pound foolish not to mention having priorities totally out of whack.

 

[Lainey63]

One time while at mass during the consecration the priest barely made it through it seemed to happen suddenly…I was amazed. He did not look good at all. A day or two later I read in the newspaper he had passed away.

 

[Big_Ro]

\They got a gentleman that has been studying for Deacon for some 4 years to do a sort of abbreviated Mass. It was nice and actually a good experience. But, I must say, I’ve attended thousands of Masses and this has never happened. Truly unique at least for me. How about you?\

**There’s no such thing as an “abbreviated Mass”. If the Eucharist was NOT confected (consecrated) by a priest or bishop actually present, there was no Mass. Period.

So you did NOT attend a Mass of any sort.

“Mass”, as I’ve said elsewhere, is not a synonym for “any service in a Catholic Church,” as there have always been plenty of services that are NOT Masses, such as the Divine Office.**

\One other thing…we got half a wafer.\

And so you think you received only half of Christ?

Your response is rude to say the least. I’m sorry if I forgot the exact title for the type of service that we experienced. Another less abrasive responder, used the correct term which Communion service. I immediately remembered that as the term the commentator told us we would participate in. Also, I never said anything close to thinking that I had received only half of the Body of Christ. I am fully aware that I received the Body whole and holy. I referred to it as wafer perhaps mistakenly, but I think in some s ense I was seperating in my mind the material bread from the actual Eucharist which I received. I hesitated to share this experience because of pompous people like yourself. I do not claim to know all the rules and regulations that comprise our religion. I’m glad some thought my description was “cute” and maybe got a chuckle. All I know it was one of the most pleasant Mass experiences I have ever had. It felt like we all came together spiritually to support a Deacon that was clearly nervous about performing the duties. It was nice. Your post ruined it…almost. It’s people like you that drive people from these types of forums and all too often from the Church.

God Bless

p.s. It did fullfill my obligation because it was the evening Mass and there was no other Mass we could attend. Furthermore. other posters have indicated that a Communion service is perectly acceptable. Their opinions matter to me. Yours is irrelevant.

 

[benedictgal]

It did fullfill my obligation because it was the evening Mass and there was no other Mass we could attend. Furthermore. other posters have indicated that a Communion service is perectly acceptable. Their opinions matter to me.

Perhaps it would do well for us to look at what Redemptionis Sacramentum says about Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest:

1. Particular Celebrations carried out in the Absence of a Priest
   [162.] On the day known as the Lord’s Day, the Church faithful gathers together to commemorate the Lord’s Resurrection and the whole Paschal Mystery, especially by the celebration of Mass.263 For “no Christian community is built up unless it is rooted in and hinges upon the celebration of the Most Holy Eucharist”.264 Hence it is the Christian people’s right to have the Eucharist celebrated for them on Sunday, and whenever holy days of obligation or other major feasts occur, and even daily insofar as this is possible. Therefore when it is difficult to have the celebration of Mass on a Sunday in a parish church or in another community of Christ’s faithful, the diocesan Bishop together with his Priests should consider appropriate remedies.265 Among such solutions will be that other Priests be called upon for this purpose, or that the faithful transfer to a church in a nearby place so as to participate in the Eucharistic mystery there.266

[163.] All Priests, to whom the Priesthood and the Eucharist are entrusted for the sake of others,267 should remember that they are enjoined to provide the faithful with the opportunity to satisfy the obligation of participating at Mass on Sundays.268 For their part, the lay faithful have the right, barring a case of real impossibility, that no Priest should ever refuse either to celebrate Mass for the people or to have it celebrated by another Priest if the people otherwise would not be able to satisfy the obligation of participating at Mass on Sunday or the other days of precept.

[164.] “If participation at the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible on account of the absence of a sacred minister or for some other grave cause”,269 then it is the Christian people’s right that the diocesan Bishop should provide as far as he is able for some celebration to be held on Sundays for that community under his authority and according to the Church’s norms. Sunday celebrations of this specific kind, however, are to be considered altogether extraordinary. All Deacons or lay members of Christ’s faithful who are assigned a part in such celebrations by the diocesan Bishop should strive “to keep alive in the community a genuine ‘hunger’ for the Eucharist, so that no opportunity for the celebration of Mass will ever be missed, also taking advantage of the occasional presence of a Priest who is not impeded by Church law from celebrating Mass”.270

**165.] It is necessary to avoid any sort of confusion between this type of gathering and the celebration of theEucharist.271 **The diocesan Bishops, therefore, should prudently discern whether Holy Communion ought to be distributed in these gatherings. The matter would appropriately be determined in view of a more ample co-ordination in the Bishops’ Conference, to be put into effect after the recognitio of the acts by the Apostolic See through the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. It will be preferable, moreover, when both a Priest and a Deacon are absent, that the various parts be distributed among several faithful rather than having a single lay member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone. Nor is it ever appropriate to refer to any member of the lay faithful as “presiding” over the celebration.

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday. Priests are therefore earnestly requested to celebrate Mass daily for the people in one of the churches entrusted to their care.

[167.] “Similarly, it is unthinkable on the Lord’s Day to substitute for Holy Mass either ecumenical celebrations of the Word or services of common prayer with Christians from the … Ecclesial Communities, or even participation in these Communities’ liturgical services”.272 Should the diocesan Bishop out of necessity authorize the participation of Catholics for a single occasion, let pastors take care lest confusion arise among the Catholic faithful concerning the necessity of taking part at Mass at another hour of the day even in such circumstances, on account of the obligation.273

I highlighted these two provisions in the citation from Redemptionis Sacramentum because, as I read them, they are important to point out. Granted, you had no way of knowing that the priest would not be there. Apparently, neither did the deacon. While it was supposed to have been the last scheduled Mass of the day for your parish, I would suggest that, in the future, you might want to consult your diocesan website to see if there are later Masses in your city so that you can fulfilled the obligation should this happen again.

What you experienced was certainly a rarity, as these Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest would not necessarily apply to your parish (unless you are in a cluster group of parishes). However, it is not so much about feeling in union with your parishioners or supporting the deacon as it is about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[FrCorey]

**If there is no priest or bishop, there is no mass, if you have a deacon who has access to consecrated wine and hosts, it is a commuion service. if there is no one there in major orders, it’s pretty much a bible study group.
**

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

**If there is no priest or bishop, there is no mass, if you have a deacon who has access to consecrated wine and hosts, it is a commuion service. if there is no one there in major orders, it’s pretty much a bible study group. **

Technically it would be a Liturgy of the Word followed by the Sacrament of Holy Communion.

 

[zab]

And if there was no priest, therefore no Mass, then there was no obligation to attend Mass at that particular time. The obligation ceased to exist.

 

[Big_Ro]

Perhaps it would do well for us to look at what Redemptionis Sacramentum says about Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest:

I highlighted these two provisions in the citation from Redemptionis Sacramentum because, as I read them, they are important to point out. Granted, you had no way of knowing that the priest would not be there. Apparently, neither did the deacon. While it was supposed to have been the last scheduled Mass of the day for your parish, I would suggest that, in the future, you might want to consult your diocesan website to see if there are later Masses in your city so that you can fulfilled the obligation should this happen again.

What you experienced was certainly a rarity, as these Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest would not necessarily apply to your parish (unless you are in a cluster group of parishes). However, it is not so much about feeling in union with your parishioners or supporting the deacon as it is about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

All Deacons or lay members of Christ’s faithful who are assigned a part in such celebrations by the diocesan Bishop should strive “to keep alive in the community a genuine ‘hunger’ for the Eucharist, so that no opportunity for the celebration of Mass will ever be missed, also taking advantage of the occasional presence of a Priest who is not impeded by Church law from celebrating Mass”.270

I really think ya’ll are taking this to a level that is unwarranted. It seems to me you are falling all over yourselves to “take the place of honor” in terms of your knowledge of Church rules. I don’t mean to disrespect to Church doctrine, but I feel you are all trying to beat me over the head for a what I thought was a very good experience. You know, I’ve attended thousands of Mass Celebrations and this has never happened. I can’t even remember a Priest being late. So, this was a totally new experience. It has never even occured to me to consider what I should do in the event that a Priest is a no show. I appreciate your information, but the tone and spirit in which it is offered is to say the least uncharitable. It seems judgemental. You are draawing inferences that are non-existant in my post nor in mind and certainly not in my heart.

Alright, your right, I guess according to Church Law that I should have looked for a later Mass time to attend. I was patiently waiting for the Priest and trying to keep my very small children form going berzerk. I guess ya’ll will tell me that my focus on the task at hand will send me to hell because I didn’t think to pull out my cell (oh yeah I left it at home in order to reduce distractions) and figure out the rule and then look for a later Mass. So, I looked it up just before writing this post. There were two other Masses at a later time. One was located in a town so far away that even if I had known I would have arrived after it was over. I might have made the other one, but I have no idea where that Church is located and since I didn’t have my phone in order to get a map and I didn’t even know the rule it’s a non-starter. Oh, well guess I’m burning in hell. And, I copied the quote because it talks about the “hunger for the Eucharist” which is why we all stuck around and took it in good faith that the leaders were doing right. Finally, the commentator informed us that the “back-up” Priest could not be reached. So, again, we acted in good faith. No one was lead to believe that this was a Mass in the official sense. They were very clear that we were all doing the best we could and we were informed that our obligation would be met. I’m so glad that Jesus Christ, my personal Lord and Saviour is merciful and just. I wish I could say the same for you legalist. I love you all and thank you for your education, but I come away feeling far worse for sharing what I felt was a wonderful experience. In the future, I will keep it to myself. If I made mistakes, I apologize. I know God knows what is in my heart, so I’m confidant my faith is in tact.

Peace be with you.

 

[benedictgal]

For the sake of brevity, I am not quoting BigRo, but, responding to his latest post.

No one is beating you over the head with what the Church says. In one of your replies, you noted that you were unfamiliar with the Church’s stance on this matter. As such, I thought it would be helpful for you to know and for you (and all of us) to make use of the diocesan website to make sure that there are other Masses available should this happen again.

With all due respect, you pointed out that you felt that:

They got a gentleman that has been studying for Deacon for some 4 years to do a sort of abbreviated Mass. It was nice and actually a good experience.

and, in a subsequent post that:

The Communion Service was nice and the deacon did an excellent job. It felt like we all truly had a unifying experience.

I noticed, upon rereading this thread, a discrepancy. Was this man a deacon or is he still a deacon aspirant (meaning not yet ordained)? With all due respect, whoever it was who pressed this individual into doing this really might not have had the authority to do this, since only the bishop can make that call.

Something similar happened about 12 years ago in my dad’s old parish. The pastor, who was in the beginning stages of Alzheimer’s never made it back to the parish. The faithful pressed my dad, an EMHC, into having a Communion Service. It was the Saturday evening anticipated Mass. I told my dad to hold off until I could get my friend, a monsignor who was serving as episcopal vicar at the time, to celebrate Mass. I drove to what would eventually become the Cathedral and told him that had happened. Meanwhile, the sacristan was still trying to find the pastor. My dad was cojoled by the faithful to do a service (not a good idea). My friend followed me in his car (in full vestments). When he got there, my dad had finished. The prelate told the faithful that this was not a fulfillment of their Sunday obligation. While he was ready to celebrate Mass, he told them that they could either stay or make arrangments to attend Mass the next day (Sunday). He told my dad that he understood that he was under a lot of pressure, but, gently told him not to do this again.

We need to be very careful about these things. Sure, the unforeseen can happen, as was in your case, as was in my dad’s case. But, these Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest should only happen in the parameters described in the section from RS that I quoted in my previous post. You said that you were not looking for any guidance, but, it would do well for all of us to consult the authoritative documents of the Church if we find ourselves in an unusual situation.

Please do not take this personally. You may deem all of this as “legalistic”, but, the Church has guidelines and norms for a reason: to avoid confusion in situations like what you just experienced. These documents give both the clergy and the laity clarity. It is not about being legalistic, it is, ultimately, about following the laws of Christ and His Church. What I wrote to you was in the spirit of fraternal charity. The situation with the visiting priest was beyond your control. However, at least you now know that there are some options available for you.

 

[Janechantal53]

All Deacons or lay members of Christ’s faithful who are assigned a part in such celebrations by the diocesan Bishop should strive “to keep alive in the community a genuine ‘hunger’ for the Eucharist, so that no opportunity for the celebration of Mass will ever be missed, also taking advantage of the occasional presence of a Priest who is not impeded by Church law from celebrating Mass”.270

I really think ya’ll are taking this to a level that is unwarranted. It seems to me you are falling all over yourselves to “take the place of honor” in terms of your knowledge of Church rules. I don’t mean to disrespect to Church doctrine, but I feel you are all trying to beat me over the head for a what I thought was a very good experience. You know, I’ve attended thousands of Mass Celebrations and this has never happened. I can’t even remember a Priest being late. So, this was a totally new experience. It has never even occured to me to consider what I should do in the event that a Priest is a no show. I appreciate your information, but the tone and spirit in which it is offered is to say the least uncharitable. It seems judgemental. You are draawing inferences that are non-existant in my post nor in mind and certainly not in my heart.

Alright, your right, I guess according to Church Law that I should have looked for a later Mass time to attend. I was patiently waiting for the Priest and trying to keep my very small children form going berzerk. I guess ya’ll will tell me that my focus on the task at hand will send me to hell because I didn’t think to pull out my cell (oh yeah I left it at home in order to reduce distractions) and figure out the rule and then look for a later Mass. So, I looked it up just before writing this post. There were two other Masses at a later time. One was located in a town so far away that even if I had known I would have arrived after it was over. I might have made the other one, but I have no idea where that Church is located and since I didn’t have my phone in order to get a map and I didn’t even know the rule it’s a non-starter. Oh, well guess I’m burning in hell. And, I copied the quote because it talks about the “hunger for the Eucharist” which is why we all stuck around and took it in good faith that the leaders were doing right. Finally, the commentator informed us that the “back-up” Priest could not be reached. So, again, we acted in good faith. No one was lead to believe that this was a Mass in the official sense. They were very clear that we were all doing the best we could and we were informed that our obligation would be met. I’m so glad that Jesus Christ, my personal Lord and Saviour is merciful and just. I wish I could say the same for you legalist. I love you all and thank you for your education, but I come away feeling far worse for sharing what I felt was a wonderful experience. In the future, I will keep it to myself. If I made mistakes, I apologize. I know God knows what is in my heart, so I’m confidant my faith is in tact.

Peace be with you.

Don’t be discouraged Big Ro. some people feel the need to put God in a box. Luckily He is bigger than that and was certainly present in the eucharist you received. I enjoyed hearing about your sense of community and love in your experience. Just don’t expect everyone to be big-hearted like you. Just pray for the rest of us!

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

And if there was no priest, therefore no Mass, then there was no obligation to attend Mass at that particular time. The obligation ceased to exist.

The obligation would not exist if there was no possibility of attending any Mass. Not just that particular Mass.

 

[zab]

The obligation would not exist if there was no possibility of attending any Mass. Not just that particular Mass.

Yes. I was referring to his particular situation. He attended the last Mass of the evening on a Sunday. My intent on specifying that particular **Mass **was not to exclude other situations were there would be no possibility of attending any Mass.

 

[Big_Ro]

You’re right Benedictine gal. It is vitally important for us to know the rules and regulations that govern our religion. I have no problem being educated. In fact, I really learned alot from yours and others postings. And, I was a little concerned that indeed the good gentleman that performed the service had not completed his study. So, in hindsight, maybe it was an improper situation. The thing is there is no way I could have known since the situation has literally never come up in my experience. I’m a cradle catholic and I can’t even remember a Priest being significantly late!! I did attend one church where we started 10 minutes late on a regular basis. We had just the nicest Irish Priest (I Love Irish Priests…hope that doesn’t offend anyone) and I always suspected he was providing a sort of grace time since people of this parish seemed to always arrive a little late. I will say it was a pretty big church and standing room only every Sunday.

My complaint is with the tone of some of the repsonses. It didn’t feel charitable. Now, perhaps I inferred a tone or haugtyness that was not intended and for that I apologize. Still, I can’t help but think some of the responses were about vanity rather a genuine sense of wanting to help and educate.

Thanks Janet. I don’t like putting God in a box. I suspect he wouldn’t like that.

Peace be with you.