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SAVINGRACE
Guest
Good to know.
No I don’t remember because I am not familiar with all Catholic history as a new Catholic. I never knew Holy Father went somewhere else in 1300s.
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No I don’t remember because I am not familiar with all Catholic history as a new Catholic. I never knew Holy Father went somewhere else in 1300s.
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SAVINGRACE
Guest
Bahaha…thank you for that laugh.He would flee down the “secret”* *Passetto *to Castel Sant’Angelo.
(* This piece of misinformation brought to you by Dan Brown)
tee
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SAVINGRACE
Guest
Thank you all for your replies. I am at peace now. 
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Neofight
Guest
That’s what I said…ordanation is NOT a requirement FOR, but is the result OF being made Pope.
Not required TO be selected…ordained as a Bishop following acceptance, because he is being made the Bishop of Rome.
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Ignatius
Guest
The remaining cardinals would elect a new pope. You know the tenure of popes in certain periods in the Early Church was only a few years as they were killed so it wouldn’t be something new.So just read that Al Qaeda terrorists were arrested in Italy yesterday, one of their targets was the Vatican. The attack was called off because they suspected they were under surveillance.
What would happen to the Holy Father if (God forbid)and the Church in general if a successful attack was carried out and he managed to survive?
people.com/article/extremists-plotted-attack-vatican-al-qaeda
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Memaw
Guest
There are very good books on Church History, go to catholic.com as Catholic Answers has them,. God Bless, Memaw
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SAVINGRACE
Guest
Thank you Memaw. Will check it out.
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Praedicare
Guest
This question has always fascinated me.
Imagine that Rome became unusable as a See, and the Bishop of Rome had to flee to, say, London or Washington DC. Imagine that Rome remained unusable for 10 years, 20 years, 50 years, 100 years, etc., and the physical Cathedra was never re-established there. Bishop of Rome after Bishop of Rome would be elected without ever sitting on the throne of St. John Lateran or administering the sacraments to the Christians of Rome.
Would it not become a “legal fiction” after enough time? It would be like a titular bishopric. So, what exactly makes a man “The Bishop of Rome” if he can be elected and serve as that bishop in another city – or even another nation – indefinitely? It makes me ask: what exactly is the purpose of his episcopacy? Is it separate from his Papacy?
This raises too many questions. Hopefully the Vatican doesn’t get nuked.
Imagine that Rome became unusable as a See, and the Bishop of Rome had to flee to, say, London or Washington DC. Imagine that Rome remained unusable for 10 years, 20 years, 50 years, 100 years, etc., and the physical Cathedra was never re-established there. Bishop of Rome after Bishop of Rome would be elected without ever sitting on the throne of St. John Lateran or administering the sacraments to the Christians of Rome.
Would it not become a “legal fiction” after enough time? It would be like a titular bishopric. So, what exactly makes a man “The Bishop of Rome” if he can be elected and serve as that bishop in another city – or even another nation – indefinitely? It makes me ask: what exactly is the purpose of his episcopacy? Is it separate from his Papacy?
This raises too many questions. Hopefully the Vatican doesn’t get nuked.
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tafan
Guest
Let us suppose every one the cardinals were in Rome for a papal consistory, and the building was bombed killing every cardinal and the pope.
The pope is the Bishop of Rome, and the Bishop of Rome is elected by the clergy of Rome. Normally that is the senior clergy, ie the cardinals. But in the event there were no cardinals, the remaining clergy of Rome could certainly elect a successor.
In the event of a nuclear attck Rome, I suppose it would only take one surviving priest of the Roman diocese to elect a new pope.
The pope is the Bishop of Rome, and the Bishop of Rome is elected by the clergy of Rome. Normally that is the senior clergy, ie the cardinals. But in the event there were no cardinals, the remaining clergy of Rome could certainly elect a successor.
In the event of a nuclear attck Rome, I suppose it would only take one surviving priest of the Roman diocese to elect a new pope.
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Mintaka
Guest
Re: what happens if the pope can’t be in Rome –
Being the successor of Peter is more important than the town you’re in.
Remember, Peter started out in Jerusalem, moved to Antioch, and then moved to Rome. He didn’t cease to be the leader of the Twelve in any of those cities.
Similarly, if the Pope ever decided to set up permanently in Iowa Bluffs for some sufficient reason (like Rome being nuked to glass), Iowa Bluffs would become the Papal See.
Being the successor of Peter is more important than the town you’re in.
Remember, Peter started out in Jerusalem, moved to Antioch, and then moved to Rome. He didn’t cease to be the leader of the Twelve in any of those cities.
Similarly, if the Pope ever decided to set up permanently in Iowa Bluffs for some sufficient reason (like Rome being nuked to glass), Iowa Bluffs would become the Papal See.
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Justin61790
Guest
I wouldn’t worry about this. The Vatican is a superstructure of sorts made up of multiple buildings constructed of steel, concrete, sturdy foundations etc. To destroy the whole thing in one go one would need a nuclear bomb something which no terrorist is likely to have. And if all the cardinals were present in a conclave or synod or meeting they would likely be in a secure room and the Swiss guard would be around. To take out the Cardinals and the Pope a terrorist would have to get pretty deep inside the Vatican well past security which would be extra tight due to all the cardinals being in one place and even then it’s unlikely it would get them all.
As for documents and the library, I doubt all the cardinals meet in the library and it would be very difficult for a terrorist to know of any meeting that would need to take place in the library. The chance of a terrorist taking out the Pope, the cardinals and the documents at one time is something like .oooooooooooooooo1% chance. Not to mention I am almost positive the library has fire safety systems so if a bomb went off in one section of the Vatican I doubt a fire would spread far. And we live in a modern society. A lot of church documents are now in electronic form so they are safe.
The thing to remember is many terrorists have delusions of grandeur but don’t actually have a snowball’s chance in Hades of actually achieving those delusions.
Try not to worry about all this too much. Short of a massive natural disaster or a nuke, the Vatican isn’t going anywhere.
As for documents and the library, I doubt all the cardinals meet in the library and it would be very difficult for a terrorist to know of any meeting that would need to take place in the library. The chance of a terrorist taking out the Pope, the cardinals and the documents at one time is something like .oooooooooooooooo1% chance. Not to mention I am almost positive the library has fire safety systems so if a bomb went off in one section of the Vatican I doubt a fire would spread far. And we live in a modern society. A lot of church documents are now in electronic form so they are safe.
The thing to remember is many terrorists have delusions of grandeur but don’t actually have a snowball’s chance in Hades of actually achieving those delusions.
Try not to worry about all this too much. Short of a massive natural disaster or a nuke, the Vatican isn’t going anywhere.
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Memaw
Guest
And the Catholic Church will be here till the End of Time! Trust GOD !! God Bless, Memaw
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tafan
Guest
I do not believe this is correct. The successor to Peter is defined as the Bishop of Rome. A pope may decide to move and reside somewhere else, but he has to be the Bishop of Rome. Iowa Bluffs might be where he lives, and does all of his business, but the Papal See will always be Rome.
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Black_Knight
Guest
Do none of you remember the Avignon papacy? It wouldn’t be the 1st time the pope was not in Rome.
Besides…consider the early church, the Pope was wherever he was and the church did just fine even though we were under near constant persecution for over 3 centuries.
Personally, I think we may be headed for a similar time based on the widespread secularism and the way shrinks and the media are seeking to normalize homosexuality and society persists in the murder of the unborn.
Think about it…if God was angry about the Israelites child sacrifices to Moloch then how much more will He be at this society that continues to massively murder the unborn on a scale that makes the ancient idolatry appear warm and fuzzy by comparison.
We stand in opposition to these things which has and will gain us many enemies. This does not even consider the animosity of Islamic radicals and militants.
Anything can happen, so we should pray and be busy about our Father’s business.
Besides…consider the early church, the Pope was wherever he was and the church did just fine even though we were under near constant persecution for over 3 centuries.
Personally, I think we may be headed for a similar time based on the widespread secularism and the way shrinks and the media are seeking to normalize homosexuality and society persists in the murder of the unborn.
Think about it…if God was angry about the Israelites child sacrifices to Moloch then how much more will He be at this society that continues to massively murder the unborn on a scale that makes the ancient idolatry appear warm and fuzzy by comparison.
We stand in opposition to these things which has and will gain us many enemies. This does not even consider the animosity of Islamic radicals and militants.
Anything can happen, so we should pray and be busy about our Father’s business.
J
JoeT777
Guest
You do know that the Protestants sacked Rome in 1527? The Pope’s guard valiantly protected the Pope who was nearly killed.So just read that Al Qaeda terrorists were arrested in Italy yesterday, one of their targets was the Vatican. The attack was called off because they suspected they were under surveillance.
What would happen to the Holy Father if (God forbid)
people.com/article/extremists-plotted-attack-vatican-al-qaeda
JoeT
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tafan
Guest
Everyone should realize that during Avignon Papacy, the popes were still the Bishop of Rome, that is what made them pope. They lived in Avignon, it was not their see.
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Memaw
Guest
Being the Bishop of Rome does not make them Pope. Electing them Pope makes them the Bishop of Rome. But there is always another Auxiliary Bishop to run the Chancery. Trust the Holy Spirit! God Bless, Memaw
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SAVINGRACE
Guest
Why do people keep asking me “you do know” what happened in 1300s and 16thcentury.
NO believe it or not I don’t know, I’m a new Catholic educating myself on the faith, hence the question.
Sheesh. I’m going to get my morning coffee now. I’ll be less agro after that
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DavidFilmer
Guest
The Avignon Papacy lasted 67 years with seven successive French Popes who never stepped foot in Rome. It’s not ideal, but it is not unworkable.
It does make it kinda hard to minister to the flock in Rome. Fortunately, from the earliest days, Rome has had several Auxiliary Bishops (there are seven ABs today, under a Vicar General (a Cardinal), and we even have a spare Pope
).Yes, his Office as Bishop is separate and distinct from his Office as Pope. The Popes of the Avignon Papacy were limited in their ability to exercise their episcopacy, leaving daily operations of the Diocese of Rome in the hands of Auxiliary Bishops.
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tafan
Guest
Simply not correct, at least in what it implies. Being the Pope and being the Bishop of Rome are two inseparable offices (actually that is wrong, they are the SAME office). There can not be a Pope who is not the Bishop of Rome. Nor can there be a Bishop of Rome who is not the Pope.
From newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm :
Same article:
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