What happens to the souls of the young, retarded, maimed, uneducated (and more)?

[rudolphschmidt]

This question has been haunting me for quite some time now. First off, I assume that many people envision the afterlife differently. My idea of it involves a meeting with Christ, a reunion with my loved ones, the ability to pursue my interests and passions, to travel places and times I have never been, and to re-live all of my memories, among other things. However, here are my concerns about the afterlife:

a) take the example of a newborn child or aborted fetus - what is the afterlife like for a human who has no memories, no experiences, and no concept of love? In a way - and I do not mean this to come across as insensitive - isn’t it unfair for someone to live a good life, to, say, the age of 90, someone who has had 90 years of living morally and making tough choices, perhaps struggling with their faith but ultimately triumphing, receive the same afterlife as a human (the young, or the fetus) who never had to make those tough decisions?

b) take the example of someone born blind and deaf, or both; what are their memories? Is sight restored to them in heaven? How would a deaf and blind person recognize a loved one? By touch, by some other form of communication? Humans experience the world based on our senses, and therefore make decisions based on these experiences; someone lacking the ability to experience also is deprived of temptation and struggle to a great extent, correct?

c) the case of a mentally retarded person, who is unable to make sound judgment on earth - do they exist solely for the purpose of those around them to sacrifice their lives (not literally, but in the sense of sacrificing time, interests, etc.) in order to redeem themselves, to prove their love for another to God? Once again, they cannot process information and make decisions like a normally functioning person, so how can they be expected to follow God’s law? Do they get a free pass because of their condition? Once again, I am using this example in perhaps an extreme circumstance - I understand that there are varying degrees of mental ailments and I do not mean to come across as insensitive. I hope people understand the basis of this question.

d) the uneducated - the first section in the CCC states that the purpose of a man’s life is to know and love God. Now, this topic alone could cover volumes, I assume, but my feeling is that it is sinful to not want to further your education by learning about religion, science, art, history, astronomy, etc. And I don’t necessarily mean in a formal academic setting, but just learning about it out of pure interest. To me, it is borderline sinful for someone to consume their waking hours by watching nothing but reality TV, for instance; but, if that person never sinned in their human life, should their afterlife be as easy to obtain as someone who took the time to immerse themselves in learning about God’s creations?

e) lastly, what became of the souls of those who lived and died before the time of Christ? How can they have lived in his image without knowledge of him in the first place?

I am worried about a general, cliche “God works in mysterious ways / we don’t know” comment. Does the Church have official stances on these scenarios?

Thank you to all who read and who may reply. God Bless.

 

[empther]

Any Catholic priest will tell you these people go to Heaven.

They were not and could not be responsible for mortal sin. They won’t be condemned.

As for what expeience they will have in Heaven if they can’t carry memories with them,
don’t worry about it.

The greatest old genius on earth will find out all his knowledge and experience were nothing compared to what he will learn and experience in the first minute in Heaven.

It is an article of Catholic faith that the saved will have the beatific vision in Heaven. This means we will see God in his essence, and since God is Truth we will know a lot,
including memories of the earthly experience accumulated by all the people who ever lived.

 

[empther]

People who lived before Christ.

If they followed their conscious they are saved.

God is eternal and timeless and applied Christ’s recempton to them in anticipation of Christ’s redemption.
In Genesis 5:24 it says, “Enoch walked with God and was seen no more because God took him.”

 

[nickybr38]

God had rules before Christ. He loved us before Christ. Christ was God in TIME but outside of Time God has always loved us.

Outside of time Christ saved us all. In time it seems like He only saved those who came after Him but God is outside time so all are saved through Christ, even those before He came to us.

Sorry if that sounds really circular. To me it makes sense, perhaps it doesn’t to everyone else. :\

I remember reading once that when Christ died and ‘descended to Sheol’ He was, in actual fact, releasing those who had died before Him. Sheol was the place ALL went when they died, saved or not… and when Christ died He opened Sheol and let those who were faithful to God go to God and those who weren’t went where they were meant to go.

Now, I don’t know if this is a Church accepted idea but again it makes sense to me.

Sorry if I confused more then helped but those are my thoughts on the issue.

As for the rest - we should not judge a life as worthy or not based on what a person can DO. A person who is mentally handicapped, physically handicapped or otherwise is just as important and vital and full of life as any healthy individual.

I would caution you not to look at such people as somehow ‘less’. Even those who cannot speak, cannot hear, cannot touch, cannot mature, are valuable.

My brother never matured, mentally, beyond the age of an infant. He was happy for all the twelve years that he lived. He was not a mistake. He was beautiful.

Hasn’t Helen Keller taught us anything?

 

[Buck_Crosswhite]

God is always a just judge. That’s all we need to know.

 

[phoooiee]

This is one of the best things I ever read about Heaven (from Frank Sheed’s Theology for Beginners).

Right now, we know God only by means of an idea. In other words, our idea of God is guaranteed to not be accurate, because God is infinite and we can only have finite ideas.

In Heaven, we will know God directly without having our own idea of Him. There is no way we can know what this means until we actually experience it.

 

[Ubenedictus]

I would have answered your questions one by one but your post is too long. Your 1st 4 post has one answer, in one of the gospels (can’t remember the exact passage) Jesus talk about a labour hirer who hires some worker at 6am others at 12, 4pm, 5pm. He pays the earlier workers what they bargained for and all decides to pay the latter workers the same amount, when the earlier workers complained the hirer say 'do u think i’m unjust ‘cos i’m generous’ you got what is your why are u angry of my generousity. I m not a big fan of this passage but i accept it and it explains your question. To the last paul wrote about christ merit applied even b4 he suffer. i’m sorry i’m not exact .
Ubenedictus

 

[greylorn]

This question has been haunting me for quite some time now. First off, I assume that many people envision the afterlife differently. My idea of it involves a meeting with Christ, a reunion with my loved ones, the ability to pursue my interests and passions, to travel places and times I have never been, and to re-live all of my memories, among other things. However, here are my concerns about the afterlife:

a) take the example of a newborn child or aborted fetus - what is the afterlife like for a human who has no memories, no experiences, and no concept of love? In a way - and I do not mean this to come across as insensitive - isn’t it unfair for someone to live a good life, to, say, the age of 90, someone who has had 90 years of living morally and making tough choices, perhaps struggling with their faith but ultimately triumphing, receive the same afterlife as a human (the young, or the fetus) who never had to make those tough decisions?

b) take the example of someone born blind and deaf, or both; what are their memories? Is sight restored to them in heaven? How would a deaf and blind person recognize a loved one? By touch, by some other form of communication? Humans experience the world based on our senses, and therefore make decisions based on these experiences; someone lacking the ability to experience also is deprived of temptation and struggle to a great extent, correct?

c) the case of a mentally retarded person, who is unable to make sound judgment on earth - do they exist solely for the purpose of those around them to sacrifice their lives (not literally, but in the sense of sacrificing time, interests, etc.) in order to redeem themselves, to prove their love for another to God? Once again, they cannot process information and make decisions like a normally functioning person, so how can they be expected to follow God’s law? Do they get a free pass because of their condition? Once again, I am using this example in perhaps an extreme circumstance - I understand that there are varying degrees of mental ailments and I do not mean to come across as insensitive. I hope people understand the basis of this question.

d) the uneducated - the first section in the CCC states that the purpose of a man’s life is to know and love God. Now, this topic alone could cover volumes, I assume, but my feeling is that it is sinful to not want to further your education by learning about religion, science, art, history, astronomy, etc. And I don’t necessarily mean in a formal academic setting, but just learning about it out of pure interest. To me, it is borderline sinful for someone to consume their waking hours by watching nothing but reality TV, for instance; but, if that person never sinned in their human life, should their afterlife be as easy to obtain as someone who took the time to immerse themselves in learning about God’s creations?

e) lastly, what became of the souls of those who lived and died before the time of Christ? How can they have lived in his image without knowledge of him in the first place?

I am worried about a general, cliche “God works in mysterious ways / we don’t know” comment. Does the Church have official stances on these scenarios?

Thank you to all who read and who may reply. God Bless.

Consider the possibility that they are recycled in another body, so as to have the opportunity to develop a level of consciousness high enough to support a spirit-level life.

 

[Catholic90]

Consider the possibility that they are recycled in another body, so as to have the opportunity to develop a level of consciousness high enough to support a spirit-level life.

Catholics do not believe in reincarnation.

 

[tonyrey]

This question has been haunting me for quite some time now. First off, I assume that many people envision the afterlife differently. My idea of it involves a meeting with Christ, a reunion with my loved ones, the ability to pursue my interests and passions, to travel places and times I have never been, and to re-live all of my memories, among other things. However, here are my concerns about the afterlife:

a) take the example of a newborn child or aborted fetus - what is the afterlife like for a human who has no memories, no experiences, and no concept of love? In a way - and I do not mean this to come across as insensitive - isn’t it unfair for someone to live a good life, to, say, the age of 90, someone who has had 90 years of living morally and making tough choices, perhaps struggling with their faith but ultimately triumphing, receive the same afterlife as a human (the young, or the fetus) who never had to make those tough decisions?

b) take the example of someone born blind and deaf, or both; what are their memories? Is sight restored to them in heaven? How would a deaf and blind person recognize a loved one? By touch, by some other form of communication? Humans experience the world based on our senses, and therefore make decisions based on these experiences; someone lacking the ability to experience also is deprived of temptation and struggle to a great extent, correct?

c) the case of a mentally retarded person, who is unable to make sound judgment on earth - do they exist solely for the purpose of those around them to sacrifice their lives (not literally, but in the sense of sacrificing time, interests, etc.) in order to redeem themselves, to prove their love for another to God? Once again, they cannot process information and make decisions like a normally functioning person, so how can they be expected to follow God’s law? Do they get a free pass because of their condition? Once again, I am using this example in perhaps an extreme circumstance - I understand that there are varying degrees of mental ailments and I do not mean to come across as insensitive. I hope people understand the basis of this question.

d) the uneducated - the first section in the CCC states that the purpose of a man’s life is to know and love God. Now, this topic alone could cover volumes, I assume, but my feeling is that it is sinful to not want to further your education by learning about religion, science, art, history, astronomy, etc. And I don’t necessarily mean in a formal academic setting, but just learning about it out of pure interest. To me, it is borderline sinful for someone to consume their waking hours by watching nothing but reality TV, for instance; but, if that person never sinned in their human life, should their afterlife be as easy to obtain as someone who took the time to immerse themselves in learning about God’s creations?

e) lastly, what became of the souls of those who lived and died before the time of Christ? How can they have lived in his image without knowledge of him in the first place?

I am worried about a general, cliche “God works in mysterious ways / we don’t know” comment. Does the Church have official stances on these scenarios?

Thank you to all who read and who may reply. God Bless.

Welcome to the forum!

1. It takes all sorts to make a world.
2. It is impossible for everyone to be born in the same circumstances, with the same talents and with the same opportunities.
3. The beauty of life lies in its richness and variety.
4. The marvels of nature are sufficient evidence of the power, wisdom and goodness of our Creator.
5. Jesus told us we shall all receive precisely what we deserve and be forgiven to the precise extent that we forgive.
6. The infinite love of Jesus who died and suffered for everyone implies that no one who wishes to share His life in heaven will be disappointed.

 

[puzzleannie]

since Christ says the least of these, including surely the people you name, are the first to enter the kingdom heaven, so I don’t thing we need to worry about them, especially those whose natural innocence means they cannot sin. We should worry about ourselves who do have the intellectual ability to sin and rebel–mainly by holding our own beliefs above those revealed by God and taught by the Church–and have the physical capability and will to sin.

Once you correct your mistaken notion of heaven the rest of your dilemma will disappear.

 

[greylorn]

Catholics do not believe in reincarnation.

It was not so long ago that Catholics did not believe that the earth moved around the sun. Nonetheless, the earth moved around the sun in spite of their opinions.

 

[danserr]

This question has been haunting me for quite some time now. First off, I assume that many people envision the afterlife differently. My idea of it involves a meeting with Christ, a reunion with my loved ones, the ability to pursue my interests and passions, to travel places and times I have never been, and to re-live all of my memories, among other things. However, here are my concerns about the afterlife…

I don’t think the Church has an official stance on what happens to some of those scenarios, but I think there are some that make sense.

a). For instance, in the case of an infant who dies or an aborted fetus, it is possibly that in heaven, God will give them the personality they would have had if they had not been aborted
As to it not being “fair,” consider the parable of the tenants in the vineyard. Those who worked only for one hour got the same wage as those who labored all day. Whether it is fair or not, I don’t know, but it is just.

b). In heaven people will be healed of their infirmities, so I expect this would include blindness and deafness. I would think that those infirmities would carry with them their own challenges on earth. Perhaps, for instance, a greater likelihood of resentment or despair.

c). I don’t know enough about mental illness to answer this. The only person who would fit your description would be a person born so mentally ill as to be irresponsible for their actions all their life. Any who became ill would be judged on the basis of their life before illness. And since their are degrees of illness, some mentally ill will be judged based on how they handle their illness.

d). laziness is a sin, and this includes mental laziness. But, of course, someone can simply not be very bright and struggle to learn as quickly as someone else. Obviously, there is no problem with this.

e). I think there are different theological speculations about this. The souls who lived before Christ may have slept in a place of waiting (in Hebrew belief Sheol) and then been waken when Jesus rose and descended to “the dead.” Those who wished to follow him were saved, those who did not, were not.
Alternately, one could hold that they were judged on the basis of general revelation.

• Many of your questions seem too concerned by what you think is “fair.” Is it fair for these people who you think have it easier than you to enjoy heaven in the same way that say, you or I hope to. Don’t worry about “fairness” at least where you define fairness as a matter of strict sameness or equality. Remember the parable I mention above. When the workers who had worked all day were resentful, the owner said to them “are you envious because I am generous?” (Another passage implies there may not be perfect equality- this should not bother us either. We know that God is loving and just and that is enough).