What happens to those who have never heard about Jesus?

[mvilladefreitas]

I’ve been thinking about this for a while…We only get to Heaven through Baptism and through the Holy Sacraments right? But what about those who never had the chance to hear about the Lord and don’t know He exists. What happens to them?

 

[AlbMagno]

There is a very popular quote from the Cathecism which don’t remember now. But it’s something like: they are not held accountable for not knowing Christ, and if they live a moral life according to their society and try to seek God (whatever that means…) they are saved. In short, they will be judges by their practices and not their religious beliefs.

This in Theology is called invincible ignorance.

 

[TK421]

The sacraments exist to sanctify people and to help people go to Heaven, not to restrict access to Heaven.

God can - and does - allow anybody to go to Heaven through an act of His will. He is God Almighty. The universe and the heavens and the angels bow to his supreme will.

 

[mvilladefreitas]

Thank you. I was confused due to a conversation I had with a priest in which he said something like “The Lord shows Himself to everyone, even to the loneliest tribe in the Amazon, therefore those who don’t wish to be baptized are not saved”.

 

[TK421]

We are the ones who need the sacraments. God does not. He needs nothing.

 

[thistle]

There is a very popular quote from the Cathecism which don’t remember now. But it’s something like: they are not held accountable for not knowing Christ, and if they live a moral life according to their society and try to seek God (whatever that means…) they are saved. In short, they will be judges by their practices and not their religious beliefs.

This in Theology is called invincible ignorance.

they are saved

Not quite correct. The Church teaches that they MAY be saved and not that they are saved.

 

[AlbMagno]

Obviously. I was talking about a just person outside of Christianity. An inmoral pagan would obviously enter Hell. A moral pagan who hasn’t heard about Christ would go to Heaven, if not, that would be against Divine Justice.

If anything, if you believe in Limbo, that would be the best alternative for a moral pagan if he/she doesn’t go to Heaven. But I don’nt believe in Limbo.

 

[thistle]

A moral pagan who hasn’t heard about Christ would go to Heaven, if not, that would be against Divine Justice.

Again that is not correct. The Church teaches that if someone does fall under invincible ignorance they MAY be saved. The Church does not teach that they would be saved.

 

[AlbMagno]

How would that be just?

Considering that God wants everyone to be saved, why would he put a barrier to people that would accept Him if they had knew Him?

 

[thistle]

How would that be just?

Considering that God wants everyone to be saved, why would he put a barrier to people that would accept Him if they had knew Him?

Who am I to argue with God? God gave the Church authority to teach in matters of faith and morals meaning all Church teachings are backed by the full authority of God.

 

[Ammi]

I liked your post. But on this technicality, I probably agree with thistle.

The promises are to those who have been given them, and they believe and cooperate. Invincible ignorance isnt exactly a promise, but a theological teaching how God may judge.

 

[Dan_Defender]

They have a natural moral law so it is a case-by-case judgment reserved for God. There is always Baptism of desire.

 

[Gorgias]

The Church teaches that if someone does fall under invincible ignorance they MAY be saved.

You’re interpreting the word “may” in a particular way. It doesn’t necessarily mean what you are asserting it means.

From the Merriam-Webster site:

Definition of may (Entry 1 of 4)

• 1
  • a used to indicate possibility or probability
  • c archaic : have the ability to

You’re using it to mean definition “a”. Are you certain it doesn’t mean definition “c”?

 

[thistle]

You’re using it to mean definition “a”. Are you certain it doesn’t mean definition “c”?

I mean it in the latter, i.e. can be saved.

Although my wording was a bit clumsy my point to the other poster(s) is that the Church does not teach that anyone who really falls under invincible ignorance will be saved.

 

[AlbMagno]

Then we always agreed…

 

[Gorgias]

Although my wording was a bit clumsy my point to the other poster(s) is that the Church does not teach that anyone who really falls under invincible ignorance will be saved.

However, it does not teach that they won’t, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

 

[thistle]

However, it does not teach that they won’t, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

That is not what I am saying. I am trying, I guess unsuccessfully, to make the point that anyone who really falls under invincible ignorance can be saved but that does not mean they will be saved.

 

[Athanasiy]

I think that Christ’s features and image can be present in many different spiritual traditions and personalities.
Where there is love, sacrife, long suffering, pure heart… there is frequently Christ’s image and features.

 

[MockSock]

They may be saved by Baptism of Desire. Then again they may not be.

In the 21st century I don’t think anyone can say that they have honestly never heard of Christ.

 

[Gorgias]

I am trying, I guess unsuccessfully, to make the point that anyone who really falls under invincible ignorance can be saved but that does not mean they will be saved.

Well, see, then that definition is ‘A’ (“possibility”), and not ‘C’ (“have the ability to”), as you claim you mean.

I think that the reason that you get the reactions you do, when you make this assertion, is that it comes across in precisely that way…

I would think that, if I were trying to make that point, I’d express it as “anyone who really falls under invincible ignorance is able to be saved” – full stop. Just my opinion, though.

(Edited to add:

For the sake of another thread, I went back to the original Latin text of Lumen gentium for the way that “those also can attain to salvation” is phrased there. In LG #16, we see the following:

Qui enim Evangelium Christi Eiusque Ecclesiam sine culpa ignorantes, Deum tamen sincero corde quaerunt, Eiusque voluntatem per conscientiae dictamen agnitam, operibus adimplere, sub gratiae influxu, conantur, aeternam salutem consequi possunt.

Notice that it’s “possunt” – which means “is able to”. So, this speaks to ability rather than to probability. Perhaps it’s wise to speak in terms of the former, rather than the latter, when discussing this doctrinal teaching.)