What has denim ever done to you?

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Book_Worm

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The thread on appropriate dress for women in church reminded me of this. It seems as if every thread on appropriate dress has one prohibition on which everyone agrees - NO denim.

Why?

(Disclaimer: I do not wear jeans to Sunday Mass and always dress up. This question is motivated by nothing other than idle curiosity.)

Denim and jeans in particular used to be the most casual of casual wear, but that doesn’t seem to be the case any more. Shortly before I retired, my most traditional of conventional old companies, okayed jeans as part of business casual. At one of last week’s entertainment award shows, which is generally pretty formal, if not modest, I read that there was one couple who wore “formal denim.” Also last week, one of the top design houses also had “dressy denim” outfits at its show.

So, what is it about this fabric that makes us deem it inappropriate for Mass?
 
Funny!

Denim skirts and chambray skirts are definitely OK, and I would think that the denim jumper for women would also be fine. Presumably denim capris with a tunic would also be church-suitable. And from there, we are perilously close to denim jeans…
 
I normally wear a pair of very nice black denim jeans to Mass, with an appropriate casual to dressy top and a dressy type shoe. I am not sure why anyone would look down on a nice pair of jeans, as long as they are clean, well tailored and appropriate. However, I have seen many instances of inappropriately worn denim. Pants that are too tight, holes in the knees, cut too low, allowing mid-drift to be seen, daisy duke style shorts, etc. So, I don’t think it is all denim that people are down on; just the too casual type. IMO, I would rather see a sea of denim instead of the people who look like they just came from the poolside or out of bed.
😦
 
Xantippe said:
Funny!

aDenim skirts and chambray skirts are definitely OK, and I would think that the denim jumper for women would also be fine. Presumably denim capris with a tunic would also be church-suitable. And from there, we are perilously close to denim jeans…
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Haha!

My teenage daughters would disagree with you. 😉 They claim only moms wear denim skirts…and they weren’t referring to fashionable young moms. 😛 My closet is now clear of denim skirts.
 
For the same reason that most businesses don’t allow them, unless they are in the business of selling manual labor or denim pants. They are recreational wear. When denim fabric is used in a way that would be acceptable for “business” casual, such as in many denim jumpers, then most people don’t have a problem with the same at Mass. (I don’t mean that the fashion police are pleased; that is another question. :rolleyes:)

This is pretty much true in general. People don’t expect fancy clothing at Mass, but they expect both men and women to avoid clothing that is so revealing or so casual that it would show a lack of seriousness if worn to meet clients at work. (It used to be that the standard for Mass was more like what was expected for a court appearance, so the expectations have relaxed.)
 
🍿🍿
Book_Worm said:
The thread on appropriate dress for women in church reminded me of this. It seems as if every thread on appropriate dress has one prohibition on which everyone agrees - NO denim.

Why?

(Disclaimer: I do not wear jeans to Sunday Mass and always dress up. This question is motivated by nothing other than idle curiosity.)

Denim and jeans in particular used to be the most casual of casual wear, but that doesn’t seem to be the case any more. Shortly before I retired, my most traditional of conventional old companies, okayed jeans as part of business casual. At one of last week’s entertainment award shows, which is generally pretty formal, if not modest, I read that there was one couple who wore “formal denim.” Also last week, one of the top design houses also had “dressy denim” outfits at its show.

So, what is it about this fabric that makes us deem it inappropriate for Mass?
Click to expand...
🍿
 
EasterJoy said:
For the same reason that most businesses don’t allow them, unless they are in the business of selling manual labor or denim pants. They are recreational wear. When denim fabric is used in a way that would be acceptable for “business” casual, such as in many denim jumpers, then most people don’t have a problem with the same at Mass. (I don’t mean that the fashion police are pleased; that is another question. :rolleyes:)

This is pretty much true in general. People don’t expect fancy clothing at Mass, but they expect both men and women to avoid clothing that is so revealing or so casual that it would show a lack of seriousness if worn to meet clients at work. (It used to be that the standard for Mass was more like what was expected for a court appearance, so the expectations have relaxed.)
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Wait, what’s a jumper? 😊
 
Havard said:
Wait, what’s a jumper? 😊
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A type of dress meant to be worn over a shirt or blouse (the sleeves are more like straps, so the shirt provides sleeves and more coverage). They are popular with many homeschoolers and primary school teachers.
 
“What has denim ever done to you?”

It got me to church, without which, it just simply would not have happened.
I would have preferred another option, but certainly not the only other option I had at the time…
😛

Carry on…
 
firead said:
A type of dress meant to be worn over a shirt or blouse (the sleeves are more like straps, so the shirt provides sleeves and more coverage). They are popular with many homeschoolers and primary school teachers.
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No, they aren’t…

🙂

I have done both: taught school and homeschool. None of the ladies who are my age peers, either teachers or homeschoolers, would be caught dead in a jumper!
 
mommamaree said:
No, they aren’t…

🙂

I have done both: taught school and homeschool. None of the ladies who are my age peers, either teachers or homeschoolers, would be caught dead in a jumper!
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Ewwww… nor would I…silly looking things…
 
firead said:
A type of dress meant to be worn over a shirt or blouse (the sleeves are more like straps, so the shirt provides sleeves and more coverage). They are popular with many homeschoolers and primary school teachers.
Click to expand...
Ohhh, right, thank you. Seems a bit casual, although I presume there are less casual ones out there.
 
Havard said:
Ohhh, right, thank you. Seems a bit casual, although I presume there are less casual ones out there.
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Gah–what is formal enough? I feel like the bar is being raised higher and higher. Do you still need to have the dry cleaner tags on your clothes to demonstrate that you’re dressed up enough?

A lot of us ladies feel like we’re really knocking it out of the park fashion-wise when we wear any kind of skirt.
 
Denim is a fabric. Among many. With no inherent good or bad suitability.
I’ve seen women thinking they look great in horribly wrinkled linen trousers.
I’ve seen people in misshapen velvet. Unraveling silk.

Clean, well fitting, modest clothing of any sort is acceptable, and we should NOT be looking down our noses at what others wear either. Some people cannot afford fancy clothes, others prefer not to buy them. It’s their business and no one else’s so long as they do not offend norms of cleanliness, appropriate fit, and modesty.
:twocents:
 
Book_Worm said:
So, what is it about this fabric that makes us deem it inappropriate for Mass?
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Its poor man’s attire. Its look down on everywhere, protestant churches, at work, etc. Its treated the same as if one had threadbare clothes, or stained, or out of style. Denim is similar to linen, long wearing. So a pair or jeans will last you a long time, hence a good investment.
 
pianistclare said:
Denim is a fabric. Among many. With no inherent good or bad suitability.
I’ve seen women thinking they look great in horribly wrinkled linen trousers.
I’ve seen people in misshapen velvet. Unraveling silk.

Clean, well fitting, modest clothing of any sort is acceptable, and we should NOT be looking down our noses at what others wear either. Some people cannot afford fancy clothes, others prefer not to buy them. It’s their business and no one else’s so long as they do not offend norms of cleanliness, appropriate fit, and modesty.
:twocents:
Click to expand...
When I first started attending Catholic churches in 1989 (converted in 1991) I was SHOCKED at what people wore to Mass. We grew up dressing up for Church as a sign of respect. It was one of the hardest things to get used to seeing. We were middle-class, but both my parents grew up very poor, and never would have thought of wearing less than a suit or nice dress/skirt to church. I’m not sure the argument of income holds much water. A skirt doesn’t cost more than jeans. If you go into some of the poorest, minority neighborhoods in the South you will see people dressed to the nines for church.
 
Reclaim said:
When I first started attending Catholic churches in 1989 (converted in 1991) I was SHOCKED at what people wore to Mass. We grew up dressing up for Church as a sign of respect. It was one of the hardest things to get used to seeing. We were middle-class, but both my parents grew up very poor, and never would have thought of wearing less than a suit or nice dress/skirt to church. I’m not sure the argument of income holds much water. A skirt doesn’t cost more than jeans. If you go into some of the poorest, minority neighborhoods in the South you will see people dressed to the nines for church.
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Your right, I know lots of folks with one or two nice outfits that alternate every other Sunday for church.
 
Xantippe said:
Gah–what is formal enough? I feel like the bar is being raised higher and higher. Do you still need to have the dry cleaner tags on your clothes to demonstrate that you’re dressed up enough?

A lot of us ladies feel like we’re really knocking it out of the park fashion-wise when we wear any kind of skirt.
Click to expand...
Haha, no. It’s just the look of faded blue denim material that has a more casual look.
pianistclare said:
Denim is a fabric. Among many. With no inherent good or bad suitability.
I’ve seen women thinking they look great in horribly wrinkled linen trousers.
I’ve seen people in misshapen velvet. Unraveling silk.

Clean, well fitting, modest clothing of any sort is acceptable, and we should NOT be looking down our noses at what others wear either. Some people cannot afford fancy clothes, others prefer not to buy them. It’s their business and no one else’s so long as they do not offend norms of cleanliness, appropriate fit, and modesty.
:twocents:
Click to expand...
I don’t think it’s about looking down our noses. For me, it’s merely a positive thing when people try to make any effort to make Sunday attire a little special. We can’t know whether people are doing that or not, because we don’t know their personal situations. So I surely don’t go around thinking about what people are wearing at Mass, unless it’s glaringly immodest. But if someone asks, I think there are certain cultural traditions that are nice to promote.
 
Casilda said:
Its poor man’s attire…
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You haven’t seen the price tag on a pair of ladies jeans, lately, I gather?

It isn’t about the price. (The Letter of James ought to make that clear.) It is about choosing clothing that was made for an activity that is as solemn as the Mass, when that is possible. If some young fellow pays $85 or more for Michael Jordan gym shorts, that doesn’t make them appropriate for Mass. Inexpensive slacks or a simple dress might be entirely appropriate, while an obscenely expensive pair of jeans (especially those with rips in all the “right” places) might be entirely out of place–as they would be if you were at work.

As long as something has some degree of solemnity and is modest, I’d say that it is better to go for simple rather than showy, for that matter. Mass is not the place to try to impress other people with how fancy you are, after all.
 
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