What has happened to Ascension Thursday?

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I am not sure whether I am posting this in the right place - but as the Ascension is "traditional '- I’m taking the opportunity to do so.

Granted, I am in Australia - but was absolutely horrified this week when I couldn’t find a SINGLE Mass in any of the local parishes on Thursday. I couldn’t get to the Latin Mass in the evening, so had intended to go to one of the several Catholic churches in my neck of the woods.

Not a chance - not even a mention of it in any of the online newsletters. Someone has since told me that in Australia, the Ascension has been shunted sideways, tidied up as it were, into the closest Sunday - one Mass for the price of two…

The last time I was as shocked as this was back in the early eighties when the Parish Priest said that the Resurrection was “just a symbol…”

I am rapidly losing respect for this “modernised” form of Catholicism; other religions don’t water down their beliefs in this way, do they? But the reality is that there are times when I simply cannot attend the Latin Mass, and I would have liked to have been able to have attended a Novus Ordo Mass on Thursday.
Is this a worldwide trend? - or something peculiar to Australia?
 
You could have posted you earlier and I could have directed you to a number of Ukrainian and Melkite parishes there in Australia. We still celebrate the Ascension in its proper day. Yes, it does not make sense to reassign something that is supposed to be 40 days after Pascha.
 
My FSSP parish had an Ascension Thursday Mass yesterday evening. It was very well attended, I may add.

Must be all those disobedient people who don’t listen to their bishop when he tells them the feast has been transferred to Sunday. 😉
 
In the U.S., each province of bishops decides for themselves whether or not to transfer the feast (and most, but not all, have done so). I’m not sure about the rest of the world.

I can understand the preference for wanting Ascension Thursday celebrated on Thursday. But I don’t think we need to interpret it to be some modernist conspiracy theory on par with denying the historicity of the Resurrection! :eek:

Canon Law gives local bishops’ conferences the authority to do things like this. We can have our own preferences and we can disagree with the decision, but this isn’t a doctrinal issue. It has nothing to do with watering anything down.
 
All but a handful of diocese in the United States have also moved the obligation of the Ascension Mass to the following Sunday. I don’t like it any more than you do but let’s try to respect our bishops anyway and pray for the Holy Father.

This mid-week Holy Day issue is well within the rights of the hierarchy to change, but I agree we’re living through a crisis of faith and this seems like a symptom of it. I used to feel discouraged, too but it pleased God to lead me to the traditional Mass and everything that goes with living a traditionally Catholic life. I pray He gives you respite from discouragement, too and more opportunities to immerse yourself in the sacraments.
 
Well, all 31 parishes in my archdiocese each celebrated several masses on Ascension Thursday, as well as anticipatory masses the evening before. In addition, priests celebrated lunchtime masses in various places in the central business district for working Catholics. All in all, I would say that Ascension Thursday was commemorated very well. I don’t know what you’re talking about.

I think it’s important to watch our words and thoughts when we start thinking about some “modernised form of Catholicism”. Be mindful on the limits of our experiences when we draw such conclusions. If you think there is a crisis of tradition in a particular jurisdiction, bring it up to the bishop through appropriate channels. Don’t tar the rest of the Church by generalisation.

Also, I respectfully request that you to drop the ‘Novus Ordo’. It has no place in describing the Ordinary Form of the Mass. You don’t have to prefer it, but it is not appropriate to deride it either. 🙂
 
Filii_Dei said:
Also, I respectfully request that you to drop the ‘Novus Ordo’. It has no place in describing the Ordinary Form of the Mass. You don’t have to prefer it, but it is not appropriate to deride it either. 🙂
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Novus Ordo isn’t derogatory.

SCREEEEECCCCCHH CRASH!
(thread derailed)
 
Joe_5859 said:
Canon Law gives local bishops’ conferences the authority to do things like this. We can have our own preferences and we can disagree with the decision, but this isn’t a doctrinal issue. It has nothing to do with watering anything down.
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I believe Canon Law allows bishops to add or remove the obligation to attend Mass on certain days. However, to transfer all the readings of one day changed to another, it seems that the synod would have to get some other type of approval from Rome, that involves the Roman missal itself. And added to the confusion is that this practice is not uniform throughout the country. The Sunday after Ascension is within the Octave of the Ascension and Octaves hold their own importance in the Church calendar, separate from the feast itself, and have their own propers, especially so in the 1962 calendar which haven’t been changed.

As far as doctrinal issues, maybe not. But 40 days after the Resurrection is what scripture gives us, and 40 is a significant number in scripture.
 
Sad news to hear. Fortunately in the Archdiocese of Chicago, I was able to attend a Noon Latin Mass yesterday. Think we had around 60 people.
 
ProVobis said:
I believe Canon Law allows bishops to add or remove the obligation to attend Mass on certain days. However, to transfer all the readings of one day changed to another, it seems that the synod would have to get some other type of approval from Rome, that involves the Roman missal itself.
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Yes, the practice does require the approval of the Apostolic See.
Can. 1246 §2. With the prior approval of the Apostolic See, however, the conference of bishops can suppress some of the holy days of obligation or transfer them to a Sunday.
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tee
 
ProVobis said:
As far as doctrinal issues, maybe not. But 40 days after the Resurrection is what scripture gives us, and 40 is a significant number in scripture.
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One of the rare occasions I agree with you 👍
 
ProVobis said:
I believe Canon Law allows bishops to add or remove the obligation to attend Mass on certain days. However, to transfer all the readings of one day changed to another, it seems that the synod would have to get some other type of approval from Rome, that involves the Roman missal itself. And added to the confusion is that this practice is not uniform throughout the country. The Sunday after Ascension is within the Octave of the Ascension and Octaves hold their own importance in the Church calendar, separate from the feast itself, and have their own propers, especially so in the 1962 calendar which haven’t been changed.

As far as doctrinal issues, maybe not. But 40 days after the Resurrection is what scripture gives us, and 40 is a significant number in scripture.
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Canon 1246 gives the local bishops’ conferences the authority both to remove the obligation from a Holy Day or to transfer them to a Sunday. And, yes, you are correct that getting approval from Rome is all part of the process either way.

Lent is also traditionally “40 days”, but in the West it’s actually 43 days (46 if you count the Triduum). I’m a numbers kind of guy, too, so I like things to line up neatly, but it seems to me the Church isn’t always so strict about that sort of thing. So I try to go with the flow. 😛
 
Joe_5859 said:
Canon 1246 gives the local bishops’ conferences the authority both to remove the obligation from a Holy Day or to transfer them to a Sunday. And, yes, you are correct that getting approval from Rome is all part of the process either way.

Lent is also traditionally “40 days”, but in the West it’s actually 43 days (46 if you count the Triduum). I’m a numbers kind of guy, too, so I like things to line up neatly, but it seems to me the Church isn’t always so strict about that sort of thing. So I try to go with the flow. 😛
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Actually its 38 days. Sundays are not counted for Lent.
 
Joe_5859 said:
Lent is also traditionally “40 days”, but in the West it’s actually 43 days (46 if you count the Triduum). I’m a numbers kind of guy, too, so I like things to line up neatly, but it seems to me the Church isn’t always so strict about that sort of thing.
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Lent is exactly 40 days if you don’t count the Sundays, which is actually the intention, which is why lent begins on a Wednesday.

However, your point is correct with respect to Septuagesima, Sexagesima, and Quinquagesima.
 
bluecake said:
I am not sure whether I am posting this in the right place - but as the Ascension is "traditional '- I’m taking the opportunity to do so.

Granted, I am in Australia - but was absolutely horrified this week when I couldn’t find a SINGLE Mass in any of the local parishes on Thursday. I couldn’t get to the Latin Mass in the evening, so had intended to go to one of the several Catholic churches in my neck of the woods.

Not a chance - not even a mention of it in any of the online newsletters. Someone has since told me that in Australia, the Ascension has been shunted sideways, tidied up as it were, into the closest Sunday - one Mass for the price of two…

The last time I was as shocked as this was back in the early eighties when the Parish Priest said that the Resurrection was “just a symbol…”

I am rapidly losing respect for this “modernised” form of Catholicism; other religions don’t water down their beliefs in this way, do they? But the reality is that there are times when I simply cannot attend the Latin Mass, and I would have liked to have been able to have attended a Novus Ordo Mass on Thursday.
Is this a worldwide trend? - or something peculiar to Australia?
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The bishops in each area are allowed to move the celebration of HDO to better accomodate their flock if necessary.

We have to remember that we live in a “post-Christian” world. On a HDO we are supposed to treat it like a Sunday. Not just attend Mass, but also take a day of rest. Bishops around the world have determined that they want to be sure that the majority of Mass-goers hear the message of certain dates. If too many people can’t arrange to even get to Mass (let alone contemplate the reason for the day), they can move the celebration.

We may think of it as “tidying up” the calendar, but they are concerned with ensuring that Catholics who may skip a mind-week HDO Mass still hear the readings and prayers for the Ascension.

We should be doing our bestto be light and salt to our fellow Catholics so that they too are on fire to find a Mass on a Thursday!
 
bluecake said:
Is this a worldwide trend? - or something peculiar to Australia?
Click to expand...
Here in my end of the Diocese, the only Ascension Thursday Mass was the Traditional Latin Mass. It is a shame, it makes it seem as if we are loosing our Catholic life, becoming just Sunday church goers like the protestants. The liturgical year used to be central to the life of a Catholic.
 
In Canada the obligation is transferred to Sunday, but we had Ascension Thursday Mass yesterday with the FSSP.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Actually its 38 days. Sundays are not counted for Lent.
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According to who? It’s the 1st (2nd, 3rd, etc.) Sunday of Lent, not during Lent.

I suppose we could just say that every other Sunday in Easter isn’t counted as part of the Easter season, thereby making Ascension Sunday 40 days after Easer. 😛
 
Joe_5859 said:
According to who? It’s the 1st (2nd, 3rd, etc.) Sunday of Lent, not during Lent.

I suppose we could just say that every other Sunday in Easter isn’t counted as part of the Easter season, thereby making Ascension Sunday 40 days after Easer. 😛
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Even in the East we call them Sunday of the Great Fast, but it is still technically not Lent. Because every Sunday is a little Easter. It has been the universal Church tradition from the beginning.
 
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