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Hunter53
Guest
I guess we are lucky, we had a High Mass at 9:00 am and a Low Mass at 7:00 pm.
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Granum_Frumenti
Guest
I was confused over the issue some time ago, but the count is inclusive. If Easter Sunday is “day 1,” Easter Monday is “day 2,” and so forth, then Pentecost, that Sunday, is “day 50.”
(Octaves are eight days inclusive, not “seven because the octave day comes one week later.” Some people even insist that the Crucifixion must have been on a Wednesday or Thursday, since Christ was in the tomb for “three days and three nights.” Here’s an answer to that idea.)
By the same logic, Ascension is “day 40,” and it falls on a Thursday. In other words, anyone here who thought that Pentecost should fall on a Monday should also think that Ascension should fall on a Friday, and I haven’t heard from them yet.
As for Monday–not to derail this thread, but in some countries up to now, Whitmonday, or the Monday after Pentecost, is or has been a legal holiday, in the same way that Easter Monday is or has been one as well. In the old calendar, it and the following Tuesday were I Class Doubles, and Pentecost had an octave. In this vein, I support the celebration of Pentecost on the Monday as well.
(New Liturgical Movement has a number of pieces on the subject, like “Two Reforms Associated with Pentecost: The Vigil and the Octave.” Fr. Z also wrote a piece, “Whit Monday.”)
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ConstantineTG
Guest
If Ascension Day is day 40, then 3 days later is Sunday. Then another 7 days is the next Sunday. 3+7=10. So Day 50 is a Sunday.
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TrueLight
Guest
Very informative. Thanks!I was confused over the issue some time ago, but the count is inclusive. If Easter Sunday is “day 1,” Easter Monday is “day 2,” and so forth, then Pentecost, that Sunday, is “day 50.”
(Octaves are eight days inclusive, not “seven because the octave day comes one week later.” Some people even insist that the Crucifixion must have been on a Wednesday or Thursday, since Christ was in the tomb for “three days and three nights.” Here’s an answer to that idea.)
By the same logic, Ascension is “day 40,” and it falls on a Thursday. In other words, anyone here who thought that Pentecost should fall on a Monday should also think that Ascension should fall on a Friday, and I haven’t heard from them yet.
As for Monday–not to derail this thread, but in some countries up to now, Whitmonday, or the Monday after Pentecost, is or has been a legal holiday, in the same way that Easter Monday is or has been one as well. In the old calendar, it and the following Tuesday were I Class Doubles, and Pentecost had an octave. In this vein, I support the celebration of Pentecost on the Monday as well.
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ProVobis
Guest
I think you started on one side of the International Date Line and ended up on the other.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Give me a break, my work involves doing a lot of explaining like this. Its Friday, I’m tiredI think you started on one side of the International Date Line and ended up on the other.
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dragonslayer2
Guest
Our parish (sspx) had I think 3 masses on Ascension Thursday and I know the 7.15 am mass was very well attended. Our school (sspx) also had a holiday to celebrate. And all this in Australia as well.
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
The Masses with “souvenirs” (ashes, palms) are always packed.The Archdiocese of Omaha is one of the handful that still have Ascension Thursday as an HDO. My fiancee and I met for Mass yesterday at noon. We went to the same parish at the same time for Ash Wednesday this year. I found it curious that the Ash Wednesday Mass (not an HDO) was packed, maybe standing room only while yesterday’s Mass was sparsely populated.
But it is actually kinda cool that people who don’t attend Mass regularly will come to a Mass that is all about repenting of our sin. I pray that all those who did receive ashes, express true repentance and come back like the prodigal son.
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Megan7
Guest
Thanks!I was confused over the issue some time ago, but the count is inclusive. If Easter Sunday is “day 1,” Easter Monday is “day 2,” and so forth, then Pentecost, that Sunday, is “day 50.”
(Octaves are eight days inclusive, not “seven because the octave day comes one week later.” Some people even insist that the Crucifixion must have been on a Wednesday or Thursday, since Christ was in the tomb for “three days and three nights.” Here’s an answer to that idea.)
By the same logic, Ascension is “day 40,” and it falls on a Thursday. In other words, anyone here who thought that Pentecost should fall on a Monday should also think that Ascension should fall on a Friday, and I haven’t heard from them yet.
As for Monday–not to derail this thread, but in some countries up to now, Whitmonday, or the Monday after Pentecost, is or has been a legal holiday, in the same way that Easter Monday is or has been one as well. In the old calendar, it and the following Tuesday were I Class Doubles, and Pentecost had an octave. In this vein, I support the celebration of Pentecost on the Monday as well.
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Fone_Bone_2001
Guest
Yes, they are. At least in the Latin Church. They’re obviously more celebratory than the other days of Lent, but they’re still part of Lent. That’s why, for instance, the Gloria is omitted.
But Sundays are part of Lent. The only reason not to count them is if you’re excluding them from the days on which you’d do your penitential Lenten observances, which makes sense.
However, in that case, if you’re counting by which days you’ll do penance, you can’t include the two solemnities that fall during Lent, either: St. Joseph (March 19) and the Annunciation (March 25).
No matter how you slice it, you’re not going to get 40 days. Lent - even if you exclude the Sundays - is fewer than forty days, since the Triduum is not part of Lent. And nor are there exactly forty days of penance, since - as I said - the two solemnities are not days for penance. If one of them falls on a Friday, even the obligation to abstain from meat is lifted in the Latin Church.
Yes, every Sunday is a little Easter. Nonetheless, the Sundays of Lent - at least in the Roman calendar - are a part of Lent, and Mass on those days reflects that by the omission of the Gloria, as previously mentioned. They do count as part of Lent, despite the unique, Paschal, celebratory nature of the day.
It’s approximately forty days of fasting/penance. The only way to get exactly 40 is to exclude Sundays (which makes sense) but include as fasting days the two solemnities of the Roman calendar that fall during Lent (St. Joseph and the Annunciation), which makes absolutely no sense. Canon law for the Latin Church even says that abstinence is not done on solemnities.
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Granum_Frumenti
Guest
I suspect that this separation of the Triduum from “Lent” is fairly recent, and the calculations that get us counting from Ash Wednesday date to before this time.
(A side note: at least some of the Eastern calendars have a longer-standing separation of “Lent” from “Holy Week.” I’m most familiar with a version with notable differences from Western practice: the first day of that Lent is a Monday, Sundays are included as part of the forty-day count, and the fortieth day of this Lent falls on the Friday before Holy Week, or in other words the Friday one week before Good Friday. Of course, the fasting continues past Day 40.)
I recently read that “the rules” were formerly different for the feasts of St. Joseph and the Annunciation. If these sources are correct, these two days would not have been “totally” exempt from abstinence up until relatively recently.
In particular, I’ve read that the Italian custom of the St. Joseph’s table, which is relatively old, typically excluded meat–even though the St. Joseph’s table is abundant and festive.
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Fone_Bone_2001
Guest
Yeah, if I recall correctly, on the Byzantine calendar Lent begins on a Monday (Clean Monday) not a Wednesday, and all of Holy Week is considered a separate liturgical season. In the Latin Church, much of Holy Week is still part of Lent, which ends only when the Mass of the Lord’s Supper begins on the evening of Holy Thursday.
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