What has happened to Marriage?

[SeminoleGirl22]

I write this because of the problems I have with my husband. He refuses to put me on credit card accounts, the house, cable bill, his benefits plan, phone bill ect. The companies don’t care one bit that I am his wife, and always tell me that they need “his consent”. He bought a new plasma screen TV from BestBuy.com, and it cost about $4000. I thought this was absolutely ridiculous, and tried to get Bestbuy Credit to cancel the order. They refused because I am not listed on the account. I have looked and looked for ways to take control of this, but what I have found is very alarming:

*No law requires a spouse list the other spouse on a home, car, credit, bill ect.  Only in divorces are things divided and given.  Couples can remain virtually financially independant of each other with no control over the other.

Not financial but important:
A husband/wife does not need the other’s consent to give sperm or eggs for fertilization or payment from sperm clinics.
A wife can have an abortion without the consent of the husband, OR become in vitro fertilized without consent of the husband. *

However, I wrote and emailed a State Represenative of mine to try and get the law changed with respect to finances. I was floored when she actually asked to meet with me. So I met her at the Governor’s club for lunch and talked. She told me I was by far not the first person to show concern about this. Husbands most often can use the finances to control and dominate a wife of limited means. It can also work vica versa too. She told me that alot of credit companies originate in Delaware, and Delaware law allows a pretty much “anything goes” attitude toward credit policy. So a company can refuse a wife access to the husband’s account because of “privacy concerns”. In reality, this policy makes them millions of dollars because one (spouse) can rack up thousands in debt while the other “responsible” spouse can do nothing to stop it. She also said Florida has no way of controlling policy a Delaware company makes, as well as making companies like Comcast to add a spouse or give some control to an account in this state. She also said that even though companies may offer benefits to the employee and their spouse, the employee is under no obligation by law to provide that healthcare to their spouse if they choose. There isn’t even a way under the law to sue for that healthcare. So basically, in order to fight and change this (for me and probably thousands of other women), I have to stay married and begin the fight in the Legislature right here in town. This may not even get past the meeting I had, and it probably won’t even get heard by the Senate, but I am going to at least try. And by the way, I am planning to offer up my suffering, ridicule, and heartache for others, especially you guys here. So, at least someone will be adding to the tray for others to benefit from. Any ideas on what to do next?

 

[Karin]

Why wont your husband put you on his credit card accounts, or any of the household bills? Is it a control issue, if so why not get your own credit cards etc.?

Also is the reason you want to be added to his accounts so you can dictate what he buys or does not buy? Does he have a problem with money?

 

[1ke]

I am very sorry for your plight. But, your husband needs counseling.

Marriage is a Sacrament-- and his heart and committment to Christ should be leading him to do the right thing in all regards where you and your family are involved.

While protecting spouses in the legal system is important, your husband’s problem runs much deeper than that and so I encourage you to get help from your pastor or a Catholic counselor.

This is not normal behavior. It’s abuse.

 

[Wolseley]

I feel for you. My sister was once in the same situation…her husband refused to allow her any control over the money, and she got a lousy “allowance” of about $20.00 a week to maintain the household, feed the family, put clothes on the children, etc.; the rest of the money, he kept—and it all went for booze.

They separated, and he has since drank himself to death.

About all I can tell you is that the situation you’re in does not in any way approach anything even closely resembling a Christian marriage…and while I understand you wanting to see the laws changed, pestering politicians is not going to change your current situation.

If I were you, I would leave. Separate. Let him do his thing, and get away from the whole mess.

I’m sorry if that sounds harsh. But I have seen too many of these situations in my time, and they always end up the same way. My advise is to separate. I do wish you well, and I will pray for you.

 

[Black_Jaque]

Boy, I am very near the point of puking the next time I see advice to leave/separate/divorce posted on a *Catholic *forum. I am sickened at how hasty people whip out the Big Gun.

To the O.P. - I am curious about this statement:

He bought a new plasma screen TV from BestBuy.com, and it cost about $4000. I thought this was absolutely ridiculous, and tried to get Bestbuy Credit to cancel the order.

I can understand if you were expressing concerns that you were heading into bankrupcy - but you stated nothing of the sort. You simply judged the purchase to be “rediculous”. If that is the case, I don’t blame your husband. Perhaps your marriage is better off in the situation it is.

If your household truly cannot afford the $4,000 TV then that is another matter and you need to divulge such information.

 

[1ke]

Black Jaque:

Boy, I am very near the point of puking the next time I see advice to leave/separate/divorce posted on a *Catholic *forum. I am sickened at how hasty people whip out the Big Gun.

I agree that divorce should not be tossed about lightly. I also agree with the poster who suggested it that she has some serious problems and that separating might be an option in this situation if it continues in this direction. Please note this is not limited to one purchase-- she has stated that her husband gives her no access to the finances nor will he cover her medically through his insurance, etc. This is serious and it is indefensible on his part.
Black Jaque:

I can understand if you were expressing concerns that you were heading into bankrupcy - but you stated nothing of the sort. You simply judged the purchase to be “rediculous”. If that is the case, I don’t blame your husband. Perhaps your marriage is better off in the situation it is.

Black, This is just plain irresponsible of you. You are basically implying that she’s just overreacting. I find that offensive. It doesn’t matter if he’s Donald Trump. A marriage is a partnership, and spouses discuss purchases before making them. Spouses make a budget together. Spouses do not hold the other spouse hostage by refusing to allow access to the finances. Spouses do not make large purchases and then tell the other spouse “tough”. She is his wife, not his child and not his property.
Black Jaque:

If your household truly cannot afford the $4,000 TV then that is another matter and you need to divulge such information.

It matters not whether they can truly afford it. You’ve missed the point. Ths is just the latest thing he’s done. I am sure it’s not nearly the only thing. And, again the main issue is that he is holding the finances hostage and allowing her no access. This is wrong, and it is a red flag to a SERIOUS problem that requires counseling, and I’d also seek legal counsel if it were me.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

Black Jaque:

Boy, I am very near the point of puking the next time I see advice to leave/separate/divorce posted on a *Catholic *forum. I am sickened at how hasty people whip out the Big Gun.

To the O.P. - I am curious about this statement:

I can understand if you were expressing concerns that you were heading into bankrupcy - but you stated nothing of the sort. You simply judged the purchase to be “rediculous”. If that is the case, I don’t blame your husband. Perhaps your marriage is better off in the situation it is.

If your household truly cannot afford the $4,000 TV then that is another matter and you need to divulge such information.

A $4000. T.V is materialistic nonesense.

Seminole Girl, you need to a get a job and start securing your own assets. If you need any advice on that, please feel free to P.M me.

 

[Black_Jaque]

**

A $4000. T.V is materialistic

** nonesense.

It would be if I purchased it. But there’s some people who can drop $4000 on a TV without batting an eye.

nor will he cover her medically through his insurance, etc. This is serious and it is indefensible on his part.

OK, yes I overlooked that part. Refusing to cover your spouse through insurance that you could get as a fringe benefit through work is bad. I’m actually surprised that the O.P. made a bigger stink about the TV than this. I wonder what the full story is behind this one.

Black, This is just plain irresponsible of you. You are basically implying that she’s just overreacting.

I guess I was interpretting that this man’s actions were more of a reaction to his spouses controlling tendency. I definitely think the couple could use councelling. But it wouldn’t surprise me if the councellor instructed the wife to back off a bit. If the guy’s pulling in $8,000/week, let him have his $4,000 TV for Pete’s sake. However if $4000 represents a month’s worth of income that’s another story. We are given so little information on this matter. I refuse to simply take the poster’s word that the purchase was rediculous.

 

[1ke]

**

**It would be if I purchased it. But there’s some people who can drop $4000 on a TV without batting an eye.

OK, yes I overlooked that part. Refusing to cover your spouse through insurance that you could get as a fringe benefit through work is bad. I’m actually surprised that the O.P. made a bigger stink about the TV than this. I wonder what the full story is behind this one.

I guess I was interpretting that this man’s actions were more of a reaction to his spouses controlling tendency. I definitely think the couple could use councelling. But it wouldn’t surprise me if the councellor instructed the wife to back off a bit. If the guy’s pulling in $8,000/week, let him have his $4,000 TV for Pete’s sake. However if $4000 represents a month’s worth of income that’s another story. We are given so little information on this matter. I refuse to simply take the poster’s word that the purchase was rediculous.

Again you’ve missed the point by focusing on the TV. This is a man who refuses to put his wife’s name on any of their financial instruments, credit, or bills and who refuses medical coverage to her.

You are correct, we do not know the details. But, I can clearly see this woman’s despair through what she has shared. Yes, she needs help, and not just counseling but perhaps legal help also.

 

[SeminoleGirl22]

Black Jaque:

If your household truly cannot afford the $4,000 TV then that is another matter and you need to divulge such information.

He is a computer whiz. His job is to “hack” computer systems legally to test their security for his company’s clients. His boss will pretty much give him anything he wants because he is so good at what he does. He routinely contracts for the state, Microsoft, Lockheed Martin ect. He grossed over 96,000 dollars last year from what I gather. That is not counting stock options and retirement I guess. Sickening isn’t it?

Lilyofthevalley:

Seminole Girl, you need to a get a job and start securing your own assets.

I have a decent job, and I have my own cell phone, my own car and payment, 2 credit cards with a modest credit limit, and my own health insurance (which isn’t the best). I’m not helpless, but he just does whatever he pleases, spends whatever he wants, pays for ALL of the house and bills, and pretty much ignores me now.

OK, yes I overlooked that part. Refusing to cover your spouse through insurance that you could get as a fringe benefit through work is bad. I’m actually surprised that the O.P. made a bigger stink about the TV than this. I wonder what the full story is behind this one.

Principle. I have my own (decent) coverage from my job. The TV thing is about how the credit (and other) companies REFUSE to acknowledge a marriage. Our laws don’t really treat a married couple as married. Look at my first post and see some things a person can do WITHOUT the consent of their spouse. The more “vulnerable” and “financially insecure” spouse can be completely taken control of and excluded completely, all perfectly legally. If things worked as they really should, as his wife I should have been able to get my names automatically on the cards and accounts, and be able to stop, and have a say in all this. I am prety much clued into the fact that my marriage isn’t going to work. But if I can help work towards changing the laws so that OTHER women aren’t treated like this, then I will offer up my suffereing for others. (not my original idea, but a great suggestion from a very good priest in my parish)

 

[BillP]

A $4000. T.V is materialistic nonesense.

**My, aren’t we being judgemental this morning?

 

[BillP]

SeminoleGirl22:

He is a computer whiz. His job is to “hack” computer systems legally to test their security for his company’s clients. His boss will pretty much give him anything he wants because he is so good at what he does. Jarod routinely contracts for the state, Microsoft, Lockheed Martin ect. He grossed over 96,000 dollars last year from what I gather. That is not counting stock options and retirement I guess. Sickening isn’t it?

I see nothing “sickening” about it. The man provides a service to society that the market values. What is your problem.

SeminoleGirl22:

The TV thing is about how the credit (and other) companies REFUSE to acknowledge a marriage. Our laws don’t really treat a married couple as married. Look at my first post and see some things a person can do WITHOUT the consent of their spouse.

I have to be honest here and tell you that I’ve read each and every one of your posts and I don’t believe, based on your posts, that this is all your husband. If my wife treated me in the high-handed and arbitrary fashion you’ve described treating him I would have put her in the street long ago and sought an aunnullment.

SeminoleGirl22:

If things worked as they really should, as his wife I should have been able to get my names automatically on the cards and accounts, and be able to stop, and have a say in all this.

It seems to me from this and all your other posts that you’re all about controlling your spouse. That type of relationship is never going to work. Your spouse is not a child for you to dictate to, its not your place to control him. I haven’t noticed him trying to control you or your behavior in your posts. He should be a partner that you talk and listen to, that you negotiate and compromise with. I’ve never read one of your posts that showed any real attempt at compromise, listening or negotiating. Just you “laying down the law” and him ignoring you. Whatever convinced you that tactic would be effective?

 

[maryjk]

SeminoleGirl22:

If things worked as they really should, as his wife I should have been able to get my names automatically on the cards and accounts, and be able to stop, and have a say in all this.

The problem with that thought is: that means that he should be on all of your accounts. And you would need to add him to your insurance. Double coverage for everyone. And if you ordered anything, he could stop it. He doesn’t want you to have a cell phone, he calls and stops it. Sorry, no more car insurance.

Even though you are married, you are still your own person. He is too.

And about one spouse racking up thousands in debt, while the responsible spouse can do nothing about it, the “responsible” spouse is not responsible for the debt. If you are not on the account you are not responsible for the account.

 

[Island_Oak]

SeminoleGirl22:

I write this because of the problems I have with my husband. He refuses to put me on credit card accounts, the house, cable bill, his benefits plan, phone bill ect. The companies don’t care one bit that I am his wife, and always tell me that they need “his consent”…

*No law requires a spouse list the other spouse on a home, car, credit, bill ect. Only in divorces are things divided and given. Couples can remain virtually financially independant of each other with no control over the other...*

However, I wrote and emailed a State Represenative of mine to try and get the law changed with respect to finances… This may not even get past the meeting I had, and it probably won’t even get heard by the Senate, but I am going to at least try. And by the way, I am planning to offer up my suffering, ridicule, and heartache for others, especially you guys here. So, at least someone will be adding to the tray for others to benefit from. Any ideas on what to do next?

I would strongly suggest you focus your efforts on the issue you have with your spouse instead of lobbying the companies, State Representatives or secretly trying to cancel out your husband’s purchases.

Credit protection laws exist for good reason–and all too often there is valid cause for a married couple to keep their finances separate and the intent of the law is to protect–not abuse.

In your case, it sounds as if the problem if rooted in poor communication and perhaps a power struggle. Most people discuss significant purchases in advance (like the $4000 TV) and/or would make their objections known to their spouse as opposed to simply canceling a purchase behind his back. We don’t know if you voiced your objection to the purchase in advance, afterwards or ever. The fact that he chose to purchase an expensive item despite your disagreement does not in and of itself suggest abuse or financial indiscretion.

Perhaps there are control issues with your husband–or you. Perhaps you have proven to be financially irresponsible. We have only one side of the story and no facts about your overall financial history and stability. The fact that you are taking your complaints everywhere else but to him suggests a need to fix what is ailing your marriage, not a social crusade.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

1ke:

Again you’ve missed the point by focusing on the TV. This is a man who refuses to put his wife’s name on any of their financial instruments, credit, or bills and who refuses medical coverage to her.

You are correct, we do not know the details. But, I can clearly see this woman’s despair through what she has shared. Yes, she needs help, and not just counseling but perhaps legal help also.

Very astute. You are an extremely wise person.

 

[dulcissima]

BillP:

I see nothing “sickening” about it. The man provides a service to society that the market values. What is your problem.

I have to be honest here and tell you that I’ve read each and every one of your posts and I don’t believe, based on your posts, that this is all your husband. If my wife treated me in the high-handed and arbitrary fashion you’ve described treating him I would have put her in the street long ago and sought an aunnullment.

It seems to me from this and all your other posts that you’re all about controlling your spouse. That type of relationship is never going to work. Your spouse is not a child for you to dictate to, its not your place to control him. I haven’t noticed him trying to control you or your behavior in your posts. He should be a partner that you talk and listen to, that you negotiate and compromise with. I’ve never read one of your posts that showed any real attempt at compromise, listening or negotiating. Just you “laying down the law” and him ignoring you. Whatever convinced you that tactic would be effective?

You know what? I totally agree with you, BillP. I felt very sorry for Seminlegirl22 from her first posts. I have prayed for her many, many times.

It does seem like she deals with all of the problems without ever trying to see her husband’s point of view, is very heavy handed and abrupt when there are problems.

Where is the tenderness? Where is the communication?

Seminolegirl22, you seem very concerned about having control over all of his accounts. If my husband had acted that way, I probably never would have put him on any of my accounts either.

I don’t think I would recommend separation for you, because you would just face these same problems in any marraige you entered into. You and your husband really need to grow up. You both need counseling, especially in the area of communication. You guys need to treat eachother tenderly and with love, or this or any other marriage you enter into will never work. You are still early enough, that you can make it work. It will take a lot of effort, but it will be worth it.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

Island Oak:

Most people discuss significant purchases in advance (like the $4000 TV) and/or would make their objections known to their spouse as opposed to simply canceling a purchase behind his back. .

Exactly.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

SeminoleGirl22:

I have a decent job, and I have my own cell phone, my own car and payment, 2 credit cards with a modest credit limit, and my own health insurance (which isn’t the best). I’m not helpless, but he just does whatever he pleases, spends whatever he wants, pays for ALL of the house and bills, and pretty much ignores me now.

It sounds like marriage counseling would be the better action for your marriage. Your problems will not be solved here. I am sure some smart poster can list some Catholic Marriage Therapists.

 

[tamccrackine]

I don’t know all the details of Seminols’ history in the marriage… but I can agree to some extent about spouses having access to accounts. And I highlight ACCESS. My husband is military so it’s a pain in the tuckis to try to tell some person in India that my husband is in Iraq and I need to discuss an issue with his account and they tell me “I’m sorry, but no. Can’t talk to you.” Will I close his accounts without him knowing? No… actually, once they are PIF I might. Will I cancel something he’s purchased? No, but if it’s a huge ticket item, you can bet your bippy I’ll be having a stern talking to about it if he did it without talking to me first.

However… Sem… if your DH is paying for everything on the house and all the bills associated with the house… what is the problem? I guess I’m just seeing it from the perspective of a woman that has to have control over all the bills, otherwise they don’t get paid (DH is gone alot)… but DH is the one that earns the money for them. I’d love to give it up to him because it’s stressful having to have control over this, then raise the kids, keep house and keep my sanity.

I wouldn’t bother with trying to get some laws changed because while you are peeved that they protect your DH, they have a legitimate concern over wives that do go out and rack up alot of debt in their DH’s name. It’s very easy now adays to grab that credit card offer and apply for a new card in his name. As for utilities on the house… call your utility company to see how to get your name on it. In some cases, it’s so easy it’s scary.

 

[SeminoleGirl22]

Lilyofthevalley:

It sounds like marriage counseling would be the better action for your marriage. Your problems will not be solved here. I am sure some smart poster can list some Catholic Marriage Therapists.

I am ALL for it. ANYTHING that will at least get his attention for 5 minutes. It all started with the pornography, which I held firm on my ground that it was unacceptable and would not have marital relations with him while he had “adultery of the heart”, and then it snowballed from there with him responding by ignoring what I asked of him, doing what he pleased ect., until now.

It’s a Class A Royal mess. I will not give in on the Pornography issue. Period. That is the main sticking point. The money, ignoring, and other things are him responding to my stance on something he sees as “harmless”. He figures I am being unreasonable, and decides he will just do what he wants and I can go fly a kite. He buys something expensive WITHOUT even talking to me. The only time I can object is when I come home and see a new TV on the wall.

If you have a suggestion on HOW to get him to go to counseling, please do offer it. I have tried and tried and tried talking to him. He just can’t understand that I view him looking at porn as cheating on me. Then naturally he can’t understand why I am not wanting to have relations with him because I feel he is cheating.