What has happened to our "Catholic" colleges?

[rosarywarrior]

In researching “catholic” universities in my state, I have found that the dorm situations are breeding grounds for every mortal sin there is. In some of the universities, the dorm rooms are assigned as boy, girl, boy, girl. No longer are there seperate dorms for the sexes. From my niece who goes to one of these, she says just about every one indulges in drugs, sex, and alcohol and not only that, but that they constantly bash the teachings of the church. My question is why would any BISHOP allow these things in his dioceses??? What is the thinking of placing these kids together where it only causes temptations? Not only that, but many of these kids use a website call Facebook which is for college students and all you have to do is look at the pictures they post…Lord have Mercy on us!!

 

[LittleDeb]

No surprises here, sad to say. Catholic colleges are doing the same thing as many Catholics in general. CINO. The colleges have no motivation to stay true to Church teaching. I don’t know what we can do besides pray.

 

[1ke]

In researching “catholic” universities in my state, I have found that the dorm situations are breeding grounds for every mortal sin there is. In some of the universities, the dorm rooms are assigned as boy, girl, boy, girl. No longer are there seperate dorms for the sexes. From my niece who goes to one of these, she says just about every one indulges in drugs, sex, and alcohol and not only that, but that they constantly bash the teachings of the church. My question is why would any BISHOP allow these things in his dioceses??? What is the thinking of placing these kids together where it only causes temptations? Not only that, but many of these kids use a website call Facebook which is for college students and all you have to do is look at the pictures they post…Lord have Mercy on us!!

When one of my high school girlfriends went off to college at Notre Dame, I was shocked at the things they were doing there. And, that was in 1984. This is not a new phenomenon.

However, it is also not a universal phenomenon. There are many good, solid Catholic colleges: Ave Maria, Steubenville, Thomas Aquinas, Christendom to name a few.

As to why bishops “allow” it, they do not. Many of the colleges are run by orders of priest, which technically are semi-autonomous from the diocesan bishop. There is only a certain amount of pressue the bishop can bring to bear. There is more now, thanks to some of the mandates of JPII regarding Catholic college identity. Some have even been stripped of the use of “Catholic”.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

However, it is also not a universal phenomenon. There are many good, solid Catholic colleges: Ave Maria, Steubenville, Thomas Aquinas, Christendom to name a few.

But, given the universal phenomenon of Original Sin, the same things happen at those institutions as well.

VC

 

[corvidae]

I would be careful with the whole coed dorms issue.

For example, my college has one co-ed dorm. It is not boy girl boy girl by room, but one floor is reserved for boys, and the others for girls. There are curfews, and there are punishments for being on the wrong floor after the curfews. The reason for this is because the college simply ran out of room, and does not have the money to build new dorms to fit just one floor of people.

In addition to this, there is a secular “college atmosphere” that has pervaded nearly every college. It says that college is about drinking, sex, drugs and self indulgence. In any college I have been to, and yes, I have been to stuebenville and Ave Maria, there has been the oppurtunity for this lifestyle.

I would say look at what the college offers to counteract that, such as rules, and good teaching, and being solid in the faith (a check for the mandatum will usually tell that aspect). If there is nothing to counteract the “College Atmosphere” then it probably is not a good Catholic college.

In other words, they still exist, it is just harder for them to exist.

A lone Raven

 

[1ke]

But, given the universal phenomenon of Original Sin, the same things happen at those institutions as well.

VC

Oh, certainly, people still sin. However, I think that there is a vast difference in what the various universities focus on and promote, implicitly or explicitly.

At (for example) Notre Dame it’s about football, drinking parties, and secular morals-- along with professors who disparage the Catholic faith and actively promote counter positions.

At Ave Maria & others, it’s an organized Rosary procession and Eucharistic Adoration, pro-life work, and professors who embrace and teach the Catholic faith.

Certainly individuals can and do sin and just going to an orthodox school does not guarantee orthodox behavior.

But, you have to look at what the university* itself *is doing to foster or to undermine the Catholic faith life of those students who attend. The items mentioned by the OP are not fostering and upholding Catholic values.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

Oh, certainly, people still sin. However, I think that there is a vast difference in what the various universities focus on and promote, implicitly or explicitly.

At (for example) Notre Dame it’s about football, drinking parties, and secular morals-- along with professors who disparage the Catholic faith and actively promote counter positions.

At Ave Maria & others, it’s an organized Rosary procession and Eucharistic Adoration, pro-life work, and professors who embrace and teach the Catholic faith.

Certainly individuals can and do sin and just going to an orthodox school does not guarantee orthodox behavior.

But, you have to look at what the university* itself *is doing to foster or to undermine the Catholic faith life of those students who attend. The items mentioned by the OP are not fostering and upholding Catholic values.

We put almost impossible burdens on young people going to university. They are in a secular culture which says that only those who are too immature for a relationship should avoid sex, and then feeds them a constant stream of sexualised images. I am not talking mainly about pornography, but mainstream shows in which it is taken for granted that the leading man and leading lady establish an extra-marital union.

The they are separated from all form of adult supervision and expected to study and socialise in exclusively mixed environments.

Finally, no sort of support is offered to those who choose to remain virigins. Theya re not honoured in any way, in fact to honour virginity is frowned on.

Now however extravangant the demands the church makes on young people, there will always be a handful who say “yes”. An extremely beautiful and popular girl at my college decided to become a nun, for instance. However there are very few.

 

[JimG]

In addition to this, there is a secular “college atmosphere” that has pervaded nearly every college. It says that college is about drinking, sex, drugs and self indulgence. In any college I have been to, and yes, I have been to stuebenville and Ave Maria, there has been the oppurtunity for this lifestyle.

And to think that I went to a college that was all male–at least back then. I had to read Tom Wolfe’s I Am Charlotte Simmons to get a feel for college life today. Perhaps it should be required reading for parents about to send their kids off to college.

 

[lotusblossom]

It is unfortunate and very frustrating when trying to find a college and seeing the majority who claim to be “Catholic” the exact opposite. There is hope though with the handful that do remain true to the Church’s teachings and foster good morality. I have also heard many colleges just beginning to form and are also staying true to the Magesterium, hoping to create a Catholic atmosphere.

While you can’t prevent your children from “entering the world” during college, choosing a college that is decidedly Catholic will probably help. Or at least one with a good Newman Center. It is much easier to uphold your morals and values when you are surrounded by people who are striving for the same good. There will always be sin, after all we are all sinners, but in those few colleges that are truly Catholic, the peer pressure is to do good, not wrap yourself in a corrupt, self-seeking environment and lifestyle. Now, it’s just a matter of praying you raised your kids to remain strong and close to the heart of Christ .

 

[Rach620]

At (for example) Notre Dame it’s about football, drinking parties, and secular morals-- along with professors who disparage the Catholic faith and actively promote counter positions.

At Ave Maria & others, it’s an organized Rosary procession and Eucharistic Adoration, pro-life work, and professors who embrace and teach the Catholic faith.

Certainly individuals can and do sin and just going to an orthodox school does not guarantee orthodox behavior.

But, you have to look at what the university* itself *is doing to foster or to undermine the Catholic faith life of those students who attend. The items mentioned by the OP are not fostering and upholding Catholic values.

I go to ND and the generalization you’re making about the difference in atmospheres here vs at Ave Maria or the like is unfair.

We have a (good) football team. So smite us

But really, football and tailgating do not equal university endorsement of immoral behavior. We have single-sex dorms, a strong liquor policy (though its enforcement can sometimes be spotty), and hefty punishments for illicit sexual activity. We have our problems, but then again, it’s a fact of life in the relativistic society we live in that secular values are going to infect every institution–just because they do doesn’t mean that every place they are found supports them!

Notre Dame has every one of the activities you mentioned of Ave Maria U & others. They are there for the students to take advantage of, and many do. The result is a thriving Catholic community on campus, which gathers not just for class and for worship, but for fellowship constantly!

Like someone else said on this thread, I’d like to repeat that it’s up to individuals to make their own decisions. The fault is not of the university that students engage in immoral activities–the administration is not a parent, but holds an ideal of behavior to which the students must comply. Overall, I really believe that the university does–or at least tries really hard to, in most cases–foster Catholic values. I just wish more people would stop and see it!

I’d like to add for the parents out there–raise your kids well, to be strong in the faith and comfortable with themselves to prepare them for the challenges they will find in college. I’m sure that there are “immoral activities” going on at even the most orthodox colleges–the environment is not determinative! Find a school that ‘fits’ your son or daughter and where they will be nurtured. That nurturing can take place (even!) at a university like Notre Dame.

 

[Celtic_FC]

The U.S. only has one “real” Catholic college. This is a fact.

 

[corvidae]

The U.S. only has one “real” Catholic college. This is a fact.

I can think of a couple, so I am quite interested in what the only “real” one is?

At least 17 have accepted the mandatum.

A lone Raven

 

[mdgspencer]

I have workied at a “Catholic” university for more than 30 years and I have watched things get worse and worse over the years. Some Catholic universities had a study made of their students. The “Catholic World Report” got hold of it and wrote about the results several years ago. At these Catholic universities, this study showed, after being there for four years a greater number of the students became pro-abortion and in favor of homosexuality, and believed that one-night stands with the opposite sex were all-right. That is, because they were there, their morals suffered badly. They also studied state universities and this did not happen there to the students over the four years.
I don’t think the bishops will do anything about it. Fifteen years ago the Pope came up with rules for Catholic universities (and I was delighted about this), but U.S. bishops won’t cooperate with this, as when it comes to the mandatim teachers of religion there should have from the bishop, showing that their teaching in is conformity with the Church.
One birght spot however, is that parents are becoming more aware that they should not think a university is Catholic just because it says it is. And hopefully, this will put pressure on such schools as my own to restore their Catholic identity. But whether this will happen, I don’t know.

 

[Domer1997]

1ke,
I don’t know much about Ave Maria University but what I’ve heard is that it does instill the Catholic morals well. But, you cannot judge Notre Dame the way you do. I went there and there are not any co-ed dorms. There are 14 men’s dorms, all staffed by Holy Cross Priests, and 13 women’s dorms staffed by religious sisters or lay Catholic women. The following quotes come from “du Lac” the Notre Dame student’s guide to the rules and lifestyle of the university:

1. “The Catholic Character of Notre Dame is most noticeable in the celebration of Mass on campus, which is a vital part of the life of the university” - Page 35
2. “Sacramental Reconciliation also plays an important role in the faith development of young Catholic men and women. Confession is available in the Basilica M-F, 11:15am, 5pm, and 7pm” - Page 35
3. “Because a complete and genuine expression of love through sex requires a commitment to a total living and sharing together of two persons in marriage, the university believes that sexual union should occur only in marriage. Students found in violation of this policy shall be subject to disciplinary suspension or permanent dismissal.” - Page 95

I really don’t mean to throw this is anyone’s face as a disgruntled rebuttal. I am just trying to inform and educate members of this forum of some university policies. I’m not sure about other major Catholic universities (BC, G’Town, the Loyolas, Xavier, Dayton etc…). Maybe someone can enlighten me on these? I would assume that their policies aren’t quite as strict as Notre Dame’s, but I would think as though they would be somewhat similar in structure. I actually have no idea though.

 

[hasikelee]

My fiancee attended Saint Louis University.

It was a filthy breeding place of immorality. Utterly destructive. The theology teacher was a homosexual bent on using his classes to impart every twisted lie possibly made about the church.

Any kind of unique, progressive or open thought or opinion was stomped on. Either you agreed with the masses or you were humiliated in class and at large by groups of people, fraternities, classes, etc.

I think I mentioned before how groups would organize a “gay day” where if you supported homosexuality, you were to visit one of the cafeterias. So…anyone not wanting to support a homosexual lifestyle had to stay out of the cafeteria all day.

Then the VM play came to town and all the liberal studies teachers were requiring attendence to pass their classes (sociology, psycholog, art, english, etc). Something about open discussion…

Mention that you are virgin, prolife catholic and you’re liable to get lynched on your ten mile hike to the parking lot…

And I must add that I am not speaking enough about how ridiculously crazy this campus was. I am underestimating as it is.

The local community college is completely secular and still allows more open thought and learning than this college.

P.S. I have heard a lot about how grand Ave Maria is but they can get pretty extreme over there. Two of my homeschooled friends attend that college, along with my fiancee’s uncle. They get just as wild on trips, retreats and other activities as any other college place I’ve heard of. More than that, however, is an unfortunate impression I get from people over there that somehow Catholics aren’t holy enough, especially John Paul II with his crazy, sinful teaching on sexuality. (After visiting down there, and also watching a few years of my friends’ progress, I definitely see SSPX attitudes).

 

[dapper]

There is an organization that looks at Catholic colleges to see if they’re faithful to the pope along with some other criteria. I saw them on EWTN. Their website is www.cardinalnewmansociety.org

Hope this helps.

 

[BryPGuy89]

In researching “catholic” universities in my state, I have found that the dorm situations are breeding grounds for every mortal sin there is. In some of the universities, the dorm rooms are assigned as boy, girl, boy, girl. No longer are there seperate dorms for the sexes. From my niece who goes to one of these, she says just about every one indulges in drugs, sex, and alcohol and not only that, but that they constantly bash the teachings of the church. My question is why would any BISHOP allow these things in his dioceses??? What is the thinking of placing these kids together where it only causes temptations? Not only that, but many of these kids use a website call Facebook which is for college students and all you have to do is look at the pictures they post…Lord have Mercy on us!!

I plan on going to a Catholic college and I have been making sure that there aren’t any morally offensive things in the one I want to go to. I’ve gotten several things in the mail about people who want to set things right agian in our colleges.

 

[Island_Oak]

I plan on going to a Catholic college and I have been making sure that there aren’t any morally offensive things in the one I want to go to.

uh-huh…would love to know where this magical fairyland is if and when you find it.

I think we need to remember that not everyone who attends a Catholic college/university is Catholic. Students may choose to attend a Catholic University for reasons that have nothing to do with Catholicism. Children of Catholic parents are sent to Catholic schools all the time without sharing the convictions of their parents. Even among those who call themselves Catholic–there is a wide diversity of opinion as to what that term means and looks like in practice (just read the comments on this forum if you don’t believe me). And–don’t forget the indiscretions of youth–especially when out from under the watchful eyes of parents, relatives, friends, neighbors, etc., for the first time at college.

Perhaps someone will start a homeschooling college to keep a lid on these naughty young adults?

 

[BryPGuy89]

uh-huh…would love to know where this magical fairyland is if and when you find it.

I think we need to remember that not everyone who attends a Catholic college/university is Catholic. Students may choose to attend a Catholic University for reasons that have nothing to do with Catholicism. Children of Catholic parents are sent to Catholic schools all the time without sharing the convictions of their parents. Even among those who call themselves Catholic–there is a wide diversity of opinion as to what that term means and looks like in practice (just read the comments on this forum if you don’t believe me). And–don’t forget the indiscretions of youth–especially when out from under the watchful eyes of parents, relatives, friends, neighbors, etc., for the first time at college.

Perhaps someone will start a homeschooling college to keep a lid on these naughty young adults?

Well Belmont Abbey so far hasn’t seem to be too bad. I can’t help what some of the other students do, but the monestery and church can be were I spend my time outside of class, make friends with the monks and priests instead of the other students.

 

[aj830]

I have heard a lot about how grand Ave Maria is but they can get pretty extreme over there. Two of my homeschooled friends attend that college, along with my fiancee’s uncle. They get just as wild on trips, retreats and other activities as any other college place I’ve heard of. More than that, however, is an unfortunate impression I get from people over there that somehow Catholics aren’t holy enough, especially John Paul II with his crazy, sinful teaching on sexuality. (After visiting down there, and also watching a few years of my friends’ progress, I definitely see SSPX attitudes).

I didn’t get this impression from Ave Maria. I did not see the “Catholics aren’t holy enough” attitude you speak of. John Paul II crazy sinful teaching on sexuality? They have classes on the Theology of the Body there. They have taken vows to the Magisterium so I don’t see how you could see SSPX attitudes. Maybe it was your friends but I highly doubt they are teaching people information that will lead them to SSPX.