What has provoked muslim violence?

[CWBetts]

I don’t endorse Jihad if you must know. I think that killing others for any reason is perverse and despicable. However, if people really feel the need to kill each other (which they should not), they should do it in the name of faith instead of money, democracy, or some such other nonsense.

As for Islam being intellectually weak, and morally perverse… I have a very devoted Muslim friend who holds onto his morals stronger than most Christians I know, and I think he would be exceptionally offended to know how you view his faith. He shares the same views that most Abrahamic faiths (with the exclusion of a few Protestant sects that support abortion) have.

Islam is as intellectual as any form of Christianity. I think you say that Islam is non-intellectual because you have probably never read a copy of the Qu’ran, nor have you spoken with an actual Muslim.

I have a hard time you have been properly catechized.

 

[Catholic1990]

I have a hard time you have been properly catechized.

Oh right, I’m not properly catechized until I wish to destroy all the Muslims, worship America, and give all my money to Israel. My bad.

 

[CWBetts]

Oh right, I’m not properly catechized until I wish to destroy all the Muslims, worship America, and give all my money to Israel. My bad.

You are not properly catechized when you deny the Universal Priesthood of believers (in the Scriptures), deny religious toleration (Vatican II), and endorse forced conversions (condemnerd by St. Augustine of Hippo). You seem to have a distates for democracy. According to your profile, you live in Maine. Typical. A malcontenat complaining about democracy while living under the protections of democracy. Perhaps you would prefer China or North Korea? Or maybe Iran. YOu seem to feel the need to coddle terrorist states. I am not sure if you noticed, but World War II and the First Gulf War were both JUST WARS. Fighting in Afghanistan is just as well. So yes, I would say you are VERY poorly catechized.

 

[Catholic1990]

You are not properly catechized when you deny the Universal Priesthood of believers (in the Scriptures), deny religious toleration (Vatican II), and endorse forced conversions (condemnerd by St. Augustine of Hippo). You seem to have a distates for democracy. According to your profile, you live in Maine. Typical. A malcontenat complaining about democracy while living under the protections of democracy. Perhaps you would prefer China or North Korea? Or maybe Iran. YOu seem to feel the need to coddle terrorist states. I am not sure if you noticed, but World War II and the First Gulf War were both JUST WARS. Fighting in Afghanistan is just as well. So yes, I would say you are VERY poorly catechized.

Deny religious toleration? I’m very tolerant of the beliefs of others. As for the Priesthood of All Believers… I’m not exactly sure that the church has decided to accept Protestant ideals. In fact, I believe that the only real clergy is the Catholic Priesthood, not some wacked out child molester who thought up his theology while on a gin and heroin bender. Perhaps it is you who is not properly catechized. I have no love for forced conversions, and I think it is a shame that people force others to believe in a way they do not want to, and yes, forced conversion is practice in a large number of Muslim countries.

I’d happily leave this country if you would wire me the money. I would prefer Iran, Romania, or Turkey. I don’t feel the need to be lied to about being “protected”. I have enough guns to protect me from what I perceive to be a threat, and I know how to use them exceptionally well. Maybe you don’t, or you can’t, but I can.

Also, before you start rallying around the flag with the whole brave servicemen garbage, I will tell you don’t bother. Being in the military does not make you an inherently braver or more virtuous person. My own grandfather was a para-marine, and I have listened to innumerable horror stories about some of the atrocities he committed in Korea.

I guess my point is this: People are the same everywhere. Just because you conform to a certain faith, ideology, or discipline does not make you any different from others. It does not make you any more virtuous or wicked by having a certain set of beliefs, it simply tempers your beliefs.

I really dislike having to get nasty with people.

 

[tomarin]

What is realy going on in these countries?

I’m not a Muslim but I’m going to add my two cents since other non-Muslims have. Bernard Lewis has written a number of books on this topic. I’d recommend The Crisis of Islam, which despite its sensationalistic subtitle, does a good job of surveying the roots of grievance in the Muslim world, real and perceived.

 

[Catholic1990]

I’m not a Muslim but I’m going to add my two cents since other non-Muslims have. Bernard Lewis has written a number of books on this topic. I’d recommend The Crisis of Islam, which despite its sensationalistic subtitle, does a good job of surveying the roots of grievance in the Muslim world, real and perceived.

I’ll have to check that out… Thanks for the link.

 

[Reuben_J]

However, if people really feel the need to kill each other (which they should not), they should do it in the name of faith instead of money, democracy, or some such other nonsense.

I don’t understand. … Nothing should be enough reason to kill, least of all faith.

If Islam tells you to kill because of faith, it speaks very clearly about what it reallly is. I stop here and hope you will ponder on this.

 

[Catholic1990]

I don’t understand. … Nothing should be enough reason to kill, least of all faith.

If Islam tells you to kill because of faith, it speaks very clearly about what it reallly is. I stop here and hope you will ponder on this.

It’s not just Muslims who demand killing in the name of faith. Hindus do it, Pagans do it (Think of ‘The Lord’s Resistance Army’), and Atheists (Communist regimes) do it just to name a few recent examples.

I say I would prefer that people would kill in the name of faith over anything else because I think faith is the only thing that actually matters in this world. BUT! I much rather prefer if everyone could get along and not kill each other. I would rather everyone would stop killing each other, because murder is a pointless exercise in brutality and stupidity.

However, I acknowledge that the curse of war, hate, and violence is something that will be with us until the End of Days.

 

[srlucado]

Send me a link.

It’s here, her famous speech to the Republican convention in 1984.
cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/conventions/san.diego/facts/GOP.speeches.past/84.kirkpatrick.shtml

The most famous excerpt:

They said that saving Grenada from terror and totalitarianism was the wrong thing to do - they didn’t blame Cuba or the communists for threatening American students and murdering Grenadians - they blamed the United States instead.

But then, somehow, they always blame America first.

When our Marines, sent to Lebanon on a multinational peacekeeping mission with the consent of the United States Congress, were murdered in their sleep, the “blame America first crowd” didn’t blame the terrorists who murdered the Marines, they blamed the United States.

But then, they always blame America first.

When the Soviet Union walked out of arms control negotiations, and refused even to discuss the issues, the San Francisco Democrats didn’t blame Soviet intransigence. They blamed the United States.

But then, they always blame America first.

When Marxist dictators shoot their way to power in Central America, the San Francisco Democrats don’t blame the guerrillas and their Soviet allies, they blame United States policies of 100 years ago.

But then, they always blame America first.

The American people know better.

They know that Ronald Reagan and the United States didn’t cause Marxist dictatorship in Nicaragua, or the repression in Poland, or the brutal new offensives in Afghanistan, or the destruction of the Korean airliner, or the new attacks on religious and ethnic groups in the Soviet Union, or the jamming of western broadcasts, or the denial of Jewish emigration, or the brutal imprisonment of Anatoly Shcharansky and Ida Nudel, or the obscene treatment of Andrei Sakharov and Yelena Bonner, or the re-Stalinization of the Soviet Union.

The American people know that it’s dangerous to blame ourselves for terrible problems that we did not cause.

They understand just as the distinguished French writer, Jean Francois Revel, understands the dangers of endless self- criticism and self-denigration.

He wrote: “Clearly, a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself.”

 

[Catholic1990]

It’s here, her famous speech to the Republican convention in 1984.
cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/conventions/san.diego/facts/GOP.speeches.past/84.kirkpatrick.shtml

The most famous excerpt:

The only problem with your comparison of me to the liberals is that I take everyone into account, not just America, and not just the terrorists. Everyone involved has some guilt to be laid on their feet. In short, I try to get the whole picture, even if I do not come off that way.

We are not free from guilt because we did rape their lands, but they are also not free from guilt because they live in the past and decide to murder and pillage to take out their anger rather than try to better themselves and their society. Believe me, the Taliban are just as at fault as the Soviet Union which saw fit to destroy Afghanistan, and us for giving the Taliban the weapons in the first place.

 

[srlucado]

The only problem with your comparison of me to the liberals is that I take everyone into account, not just America, and not just the terrorists. Everyone involved has some guilt to be laid on their feet. In short, I try to get the whole picture, even if I do not come off that way.

We are not free from guilt because we did rape their lands, but they are also not free from guilt because they live in the past and decide to murder and pillage to take out their anger rather than try to better themselves and their society. Believe me, the Taliban are just as at fault as the Soviet Union which saw fit to destroy Afghanistan, and us for giving the Taliban the weapons in the first place.

Look, everybody’s been wronged, and has done wrong. (Have you ever heard of something called the Lord’s Prayer? I think it’s strange to ask, but having read your comments, I have to wonder.) The question is, what do you *do *about it?

Islam has a long, long history of not only engaging in violence, but promoting it and praising it. Saddam Hussein offered monetary rewards to Palestinian suicide bombers–do Christians offer rewards to madmen who kill abortionists? Algeria has been fighting Islamic extremists for decades, with hundreds of thousands dead–and Algeria is a Muslim country, just not Muslim enough for the terrorists. Do Christian fundamentalists machine-gun innocent civilians on American beaches because they’re not Christian enough?

Moral equivalance is tiresome. Sure, I’ve broken laws, and told lies and done some hurtful things, and I’m walking around a free man. But to then say that a serial murderer should also be free–because, after all, we’re both impure–is a *monstrous *lapse in reason. Similary, Christianity has its faults, no doubt, but I’ll take it over anything else, *especially *Islam.

 

[Catholic1990]

Look, everybody’s been wronged, and has done wrong. (Have you ever heard of something called the Lord’s Prayer? I think it’s strange to ask, but having read your comments, I have to wonder.) The question is, what do you *do *about it?

Islam has a long, long history of not only engaging in violence, but promoting it and praising it. Saddam Hussein offered monetary rewards to Palestinian suicide bombers–do Christians offer rewards to madmen who kill abortionists? Algeria has been fighting Islamic extremists for decades, with hundreds of thousands dead–and Algeria is a Muslim country, just not Muslim enough for the terrorists. Do Christian fundamentalists machine-gun innocent civilians on American beaches because they’re not Christian enough?

Moral equivalance is tiresome. Sure, I’ve broken laws, and told lies and done some hurtful things, and I’m walking around a free man. But to then say that a serial murderer should also be free–because, after all, we’re both impure–is a *monstrous *lapse in reason. Similary, Christianity has its faults, no doubt, but I’ll take it over anything else, *especially *Islam.

Perhaps you have heard of the Army of God.

I said this in an earlier post, but the reason why we no longer have Christian extremists is because Christianity is essentially as meaningless in our culture as a cup of coffee or what’s for dinner. Christianity simply holds no value anymore to the majority of those who live in the West.

The only Christian extremists I can think of from our modern age are the Kataeb and the Army of God, and they have been on the decline.

Yes I do know the Lord’s Prayer, and I would really appreciate it if all of you would stop questioning my belief in God and the Catholic Church. I reassure you that I am very Catholic, and I am very devout in my faith. I am not less Catholic because I dislike democracy, Western militarism, or because I have a fascination with Muslim culture. I am entitled to my opinion as much as you are entitled to your own.

As for the moral equivalency issue, I do put the War Hawks in our government, along with all of those wretches who think of new, more flashy ways to kill each other along the same lines as members of Al Quaeda or Communist Partisans. That is to say they are not good people. They are all quite equally wicked, no matter which side they are on.

And no, you are not on the same level as a sadistic serial killer. People like that should be locked up, and we should try to rehabilitate them, or in failing that, keep them away from others.

 

[srlucado]

Perhaps you have heard of the Army of God.

I said this in an earlier post, but the reason why we no longer have Christian extremists is because Christianity is essentially as meaningless in our culture as a cup of coffee or what’s for dinner. Christianity simply holds no value anymore to the majority of those who live in the West.

The only Christian extremists I can think of from our modern age are the Kataeb and the Army of God, and they have been on the decline.

Yes I do know the Lord’s Prayer, and I would really appreciate it if all of you would stop questioning my belief in God and the Catholic Church. I reassure you that I am very Catholic, and I am very devout in my faith. I am not less Catholic because I dislike democracy, Western militarism, or because I have a fascination with Muslim culture. I am entitled to my opinion as much as you are entitled to your own.

As for the moral equivalency issue, I do put the War Hawks in our government, along with all of those wretches who think of new, more flashy ways to kill each other along the same lines as members of Al Quaeda or Communist Partisans. That is to say they are not good people. They are all quite equally wicked, no matter which side they are on.

And no, you are not on the same level as a sadistic serial killer. People like that should be locked up, and we should try to rehabilitate them, or in failing that, keep them away from others.

None so blind…

 

[Catholic1990]

None so blind…

How am I blind? Is it because I refuse to look at the world through the eyes of a child? Is it because I do not keep in line with Western thinking? Is it because I do not believe in the death penalty, or because I don’t feel that converting all of the Muslims in the Middle-East to the good ol’ atheism of our own culture is going to really help them? Is it because I actually like to ponder history and see how it applies to how things work to day? Please explain to me how I am blind?

 

[tomarin]

I don’t understand. … Nothing should be enough reason to kill, least of all faith.

War is a reason to kill. Justice is a reason to kill. Defense of your home and family is a reason to kill. All killing is regretable, perhaps, but sometimes it is licit.

If Islam tells you to kill because of faith, it speaks very clearly about what it reallly is. I stop here and hope you will ponder on this.

I’m not sure that’s a fair characterization of what Islam teaches.

 

[Jay53]

I’m not sure that’s a fair characterization of what Islam teaches.

Islam does teach Muslims to kill for their faith. Here are just a couple of verses from the Quran:

(5) They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #89)

(13) The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #33)

In discussing the phrase in the second verse “strive after corruption in the land” or I think there is a another translation “make mischief in the land”, there was no clear definition as to what that means or who decides that. Some posters, if I remember correctly, felt that speaking against Muhammad, particularly after converting from Islam could be classified as “making mischief” and as an act punishable by death.

 

[meedo]

I wish to know why muslims are willing to blow them selves up and
innocent people?

Muslims do not wish to do that . Muslims love life as any one else. But some people in general are put in a place where there is no hope of righting the wrongs that are done against them . They embark on punishing who they thing brought the injustice on them.

What provoked these actions?

1- The take over of Palestine By european jews and displacement of palestinians till today.

2- Support of dictatorships as long as they do western powers ( or any other power ) bidding and interference in Muslim land for eh detriment of the natives to gain certain access or powers

3- Invading Muslim lands

What exactly did christians do to provoke all the violence?

What exactly did jews do?

The religion is really immaterial although it seems otherwise. Muslims battled the soviet union and it was athiest . Islam is not against Christianity and Judaism. As for the reasons of discontent, see the reasons that i posted above.

What is realy going on in these countries?

What countries?

 

[kalt]

I don’t endorse Jihad if you must know. I think that killing others for any reason is perverse and despicable. However, if people really feel the need to kill each other (which they should not), they should do it in the name of faith instead of money, democracy, or some such other nonsense.

As for Islam being intellectually weak, and morally perverse… I have a very devoted Muslim friend who holds onto his morals stronger than most Christians I know, and I think he would be exceptionally offended to know how you view his faith. He shares the same views that most Abrahamic faiths (with the exclusion of a few Protestant sects that support abortion) have.

Islam is as intellectual as any form of Christianity. I think you say that Islam is non-intellectual because you have probably never read a copy of the Qu’ran, nor have you spoken with an actual Muslim.

So you think a Christian is more justified in killing if he’s doing it in the name of Christ than if he does it because his gang leader told him to (turf war).

Very strange thinking there.

 

[Prodigal_Child]

Moral equivalance is tiresome. Sure, I’ve broken laws, and told lies and done some hurtful things, and I’m walking around a free man. But to then say that a serial murderer should also be free–because, after all, we’re both impure–is a *monstrous *lapse in reason.

This really deserved to be repeated.

 

[Prodigal_Child]

Muslims love life as any one else.

Really? Hamas believes they will win because “We desire death like you [the Jews] desire life.” Listen to it with your own ears: youtube.com/watch?v=CWIDZ7Jpdqg