What have been the societal consequences of Same-Sex Marriage where it is legalised?

[Edmundus1581]

This is a request for information from people who live in countries where same-sex marriage has been legalised.

This issue is now before the Australian public, and one of the central arguments is going to be about the social consequences of implementing SSM. The opponents will predict dire social consequences, and the advocates will deny any such consequences.

Thus it will be very helpful to get any information about the actual consequences in the US, Canada, and UK (or anywhere else) where SSM has been available for several years.

The following sums up the view of minimal consequences:

In the US those “significant implications” became the arguments that “gay propaganda” would spread into schools, that once gay marriage was the norm other aberrant forms of marriage would follow, that religious groups would be victimised.

It became the fraught concern for the wellbeing of bakers and marriage celebrants and wedding caterers. It was about anything but the right of a committed couple to marry.

All of this is already in play in Australia, and was neatly summed up by Abbott on Wednesday morning.

But according to Wolfson there was a parallel campaign fought too. While mainstream politicians kept their hands clean, aware that outright homophobia doesn’t wash anymore, a subterranean poison of invective followed the overt campaign, and this too will now by foisted upon Australian gays and their families.

You can see it already if you care to dip your toe into online sewers, and elements of it have crept onto cable TV. On Tuesday night Bronwyn Bishop was on Sky News warning of bestiality and the killing of newborn babies.

**Of course, in the years since gay marriage was legalised in America, the only impact to society has been that some gays got married, and many who once feared the outcome have now changed their views.

Today even a plurality of Republicans support gay marriage, 48 to 47 per cent, while 64 per cent of Americans back gay marriage, up from 62 per cent.**

[Sydney Morning Herald - Tony Abbott is ripping his anti-gay marriage strategy out of the US playbook]

On the other hand, I posted this on facebook:

A Yes vote will just be the start of a whole new, and expensive set of problems to ensure full equality for same-sex couples. Even a provision for religious ministers and schools will be removed in time, by simple legislation. School curricula, government forms and media (eg. ABC) will have to be revised to ensure that same-sex couples are given equal recognition. Any mention of “husband”, “wife”, “mother”, “father” will have to be reviewed. In time, this will probably extend to government regulation of commercial media to ensure that it gives representation to same-sex couples in advertising and programming. We will go to all this trouble and expense for less than approx 1% of the population (2016 census).

What have been the experiences overseas?

Thankyou in advance,

Edmundus

 

[Erich]

From another thread, see christian.org.uk/news/children-facing-bullying-pro-marriage-pro-life-views-scotland/

“Numerous accounts – including one girl being told she ‘wasn’t a real woman’ because she did not support abortion – were revealed by the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland. Another student was told she was a ‘disgrace’ for ‘promoting this kind of hate’… One student dropped out of a class ‘to avoid the harassment’.”

“Anthony Horan warned of a ‘culture of fear’ that people face when discussing their faith.”

 

[Edmundus1581]

Thanks Erich. I’ve added that reference to my fb post.

 

[ATraveller]

You don’t have a state church like Sweden but this happened:

Sweden’s Prime Minister says no priest working for the Church of Sweden should be allowed to refuse to wed same-sex couples.

Stefan Löfven, a Social Democrat, compared priests who refuse to wed same-sex couples with midwives refusing to carry out abortions. He told the Church of Sweden’s newspaper Kyrkans Tidning, “Us Social Democrats work to ensure that all priests should wed all people, including same-sex couples. If you are a midwife you either have to carry out abortions, or you have to find another profession. The same goes for priests who do not want to wed homosexuals.”

www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2017/june/swedish-prime-minister-priests-should-be-forced-to-perform-same-sex-weddings

In Ohio, an activist group expressed they want gay weddings on church property:

Equality Ohio indicated they plan to leave your sanctuary alone (for now) but they openly announced to our legislators that they’re going after church meeting rooms, banquet halls, multi-purpose rooms, gyms, etc. Your church could be sued if you say “No.” Even if you win the case, the legal bill would be expensive.

facebook.com/vote.vitale/photos/a.459723430772379.1073741827.459718727439516/1240336672711047/?type=3&hc_ref=PAGES_TIMELINE

Northern Ireland hasn’t redefined marriage but expect these cases to happen more often if it does get redefined. In this case, a bakery was dragged into an expensive legal battle because they didn’t want to bake a cake with a message to redefine marriage. They lost the case (LGBT activist Peter Tatchell *defended *the Christian bakery’s right to refuse baking the cake). The link is about how someone tried to get the bakery into legal trouble again:
premier.org.uk/Across-the-UK/Northern-Ireland/Christian-bakery-Ashers-refuses-new-gay-cake-order

There are countless of businesses being sued for not wanting to cater to gay weddings in the US. Christian photographers are being forced to attend gay weddings. The ‘Don’t like gay marriage, don’t have one’ slogan should be modified by adding ‘but you must attend a gay wedding’.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Thankyou, AT, for the extracts and references. Over the next few weeks it’s going to be important to me to have this information ready whenever I discuss the topic with friends and family. Facts, rather than nebuluous fears.

I particularly liked the one from the Ohio representative, both because Australia does like to follow the US, and because it directly addresses the false statement from The Sydne Morning Herald, which is one of our major “intellectual” newspapers.

Of course, in the years since gay marriage was legalised in America, the only impact to society has been that some gays got married, and many who once feared the outcome have now changed their views.

Simply untrue.

 

[MaryT777]

Interested in the answers…

 

[Jestersage]

For our Australian friend: I would like to point out that there is one difference between United States, Australia, Britain, and Canada: The constitution.

US not merely put Freedom of Religion as the First Amendment, but also make it unalienable rights. If Australia have the same constitution nature, then it will be just marriage.

(Using as example) Canada, however, have the first constitution that explicitly stated Freedom can be limited. It had been used in the past to squash religion freedom. This will no doubt come into play in the Trinity Western University Accreditation Case, where one of the reason they weren’t allowed to be accredited is their Christian Creed. The newest news regarding that is at thelawyersdaily.ca/articles/4375/chief-justice-s-rare-order-in-trinity-western-case-ensures-all-voices-could-be-heard-

If Australia have a similar constitution, it will definitely affect similarly.

Now this is possibly heresy, but according to my mom’s friend, living in Vancouver Region, they actually teach homosexuality in public school. Not just sex-ed, but actual basic social studies (ie not split into history, geography and etc, usually before Gr 10.), where you have two activist came in and talk about it in class. Of coruse, it is technically heresy.

I have a friend that belongs to a Prebysterian church, whose wife really want their daughters to study in Private (christian) school. If you want to, I may ask them whether they were forced to introduce homosexual concept in social studies.

 

[Rose71]

Breaking news from the UK…

It’s not really made a scrap of difference.

Yes, there is a general tide of ‘liberalism’ and lots of attempts to brainwash everyone by suggesting there is a ‘correct’ and an ‘incorrect’ way to view the world - but most people just find the whole PC movement mildly ludicrous and carry on as normal.

At my place of work, one of our managers suggested at a team meeting we could help design a banner for our colleagues who were marching at a Gay Pride rally. Nobody joined in and nobody got reprimanded for not joining it either. We’ve had a very silly survey about gender-related positive and negative experiences: I just responded that I had no idea what the question meant, but if it was any help, as a woman, I found it more difficult to pee outdoors when there was a lack of appropriate cover.

There’s a rise in a vocal minority making an issue of all sorts of non-issues like the % of gay people in senior roles, but equally, lots of observations that there seems to be an ‘agenda’ for promoting or favouring gay TV presenters.

So - a few people are taking it all very seriously and most people just aren’t! I have a few gay friends (they know I’m a practicing Catholic and they respect my beliefs and I respect their freedom of choice and pray that God has mercy on them) and I couldn’t imagine any of them drawing attention to their sexuality any more than the average heterosexual person or couple. They just want quiet, happy lives with good friends and good health.

What unites us is that we don’t embrace any political agenda - we just all genuinely like one another, wish each other well and accept we have more in common than different. As a Catholic, if I didn’t speak to anyone at work, or during my leisure time who used ABC, IVF, lived in sin, masturbated (like I’d ask!!!) or indulged in any kind of pre-marital sex, I’d have nobody to share my Good News with

 

[josh987654321]

You don’t even have to look outside of Australia, so called ‘same sex marriage’ is not even law here, and yet we have a ‘Safe Schools’ program teaching kids that their gender is fluid and indoctrinating them with LGBTQIA activism. Teaching kids about ‘penis tucking’ and ‘breast binding’ etc etc. All under the guise of an ‘Anti Bullying’ program, so that anyone who speaks against it, is easily vilified as supporting bullying.

Just recently we had nasty scenes in Canberra from ‘gay rights activists’ shouting down and intimidating people talking about the ‘Safe Schools’ program being pushed in schools.

The ‘gay rights activists’ had and have no interest in civil discourse, only in name calling, shouting down and intimidation to get what they want. That says it all really.

Not only that, but you also have Facebook, Youtube and the Main Stream Media, all acting as propaganda and using subtle (often times not subtle at all, but most wont hear about it unfortunately because it’s all done out of public view) and sly tactics against anyone who holds that marriage Is between a man and a woman. For example, dubious polls claiming that the majority of Australian’s support same sex marriage, which if that were the case, they would have no qualms with a peoples vote, which shows they are lying through their teeth. Even the term ‘Marriage Equality’ is a loaded question, just like the term ‘Safe Schools’ so that on the face of it, any opposition looks hateful and such people are easily vilified.

All of this is happening and so called same sex marriage is not even law. It will be much worse once it’s law, any exemptions that are put in place will be easily removed, since Instituting a law and then giving exemptions to those who do not wish to follow or recognize it is nonsensical, it may as well be no law at all.

Same sex marriage also does not legalize or criminalize a homosexual union, so what exactly do they want then? Certainly not just a piece of paper from the government that says ‘married’ on it. They want you and I to see and teach that their union is ‘equal’ which I cannot ever do, they want to teach children that we are hateful, bigoted and discriminatory, so it will lead to our persecution. They are weak and that is why the speak of ‘tolerance’ and ‘exemptions’, later it will be ‘persecution’

Catholic Schools would no longer be allowed to teach ‘hatred’ and ‘bigotry’ (What they call those who believe marriage is between a man and a woman) since the law says that they are ‘equal’ and a law is worthless if it’s not enforced.

If same sex marriage is about ‘equality’ how can you allow Catholic Schools and others to teach or hold discrimination, hate and bigotry?

If the plebiscite goes ahead, 1) I hope everyone has to vote so it’s an accurate representation of the will of the people and I hope it’s not some flimsy postal vote that could be rigged or tampered with and 2) get ready for the absolute mountain of propaganda that will be leveled against us, I just hope and pray the majority Australians see through it.

The only reason we are not seeing a much worsening state in the USA after they put so called ‘same sex marriage’ in, is because Trump won the election, that’s the only reason, had Clinton won you would have seen it ramping up. That is why there is such hatred for Trump, as he stopped their agenda dead in it’s tracks, we will have to wait and see which way the USA decides to go.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Warandpeace]

While I’m opposed to gay marriage and transgender issues (and my boss doesn’t seem to hestitate about letting transgender people go; they need to take time off for surgery),
there is workplace practice in place that I must call a woman “Theo,” for example.

She has multiple male names. It is really quite confusing. Bear in mind I am located in the Deep South right now, where a large part of the population has some religious beliefs.

The only change I’ve seen so far is that the gay/lesbian issue is not mainstream. We
must now address straight people who are in favor of gay pride, rather than just people
who struggle with their sexual orientation.

 

[PJH_74]

Nothing…more people are married.

 

[abinjoy]

. That is why there is such hatred for Trump, as he stopped their agenda dead in it’s tracks, we will have to wait and see which way the USA decides to go.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

There is hatred against Trump not only because he is slowed down the gay agenda but also he is a white supremacist who’s rhetorics during the elections enabled hatred and he to some extent got votes based on a hate campaign.'Ivanka and Jared are very much in support of gay agenda FYI…I live in India as a minority Catholic and feel a bit insecurity as the Hindu agenda govt advances its propaganda in many forms.
Similarly, the minorities in the US also feel the same under Trump.

The hypocrisy of Christians in the West is so evident in supporting Trump’s divisive policies. They cry foul about the persecution of Christian’s in the non-Western world, for instance, I have seen several articles in Western Christian media about attacks against Christian’s in India but many of them keep silent when minorities in West feel insecure under divisive politicians. I have Christian friends in the US telling they feel insecure about living in Trump’s US.

PS: I am an Indian who lived in Aus in the past and I support Trump defunding PP and slowing down LGBT agenda but I oppose his divisive and hatred filled politics and selling 110 billion $ arms to Saudi. Let us also not forget Pro Life Trump’s missiles killing innocent civilians in Syria which include children and women and his silly childish tweets on the North Korea escalating g the already tense situation.

Trump worshippers need to start calling a spade a spade

I don’t intend to sabotage this thread so please continue with the discussion on the topic raised by OP

 

[edwest2]

This issue was and is an ongoing social engineering project in the US. So-called same-sex marriage was legalized over the lack of “yes” votes by the people in previous years through the US Supreme Court in 2015. It was voted down twice in California when it was on the ballot. But obviously, the ballot box can be circumvented not by the people but by the Supreme Court.

Now, and previously, children who can’t understand human sexuality are being targeted by Hollywood and gay rights organizations:

hollywoodreporter.com/news/finding-dory-frozen-lgbt-characters-898354

GLSEN has been ‘Championing LGBTQ issues in K-12 education since 1990’ I can’t post a direct link to their website.

On the issue of Transgender persons who want to join the US military - the word hate is their only defense. However, there is no basis for something like this. The use of “emotion words” is to shut down discussion and dismiss factual information. Or knowledge regarding how certain things move through appropriate channels. Like the ban on Transgender troops which is supported by the Center for Military Readiness:

cmrlink.org/data/sites/85/CMRDocuments/CMR_TransgenderPolAnalysis.pdf

California has now made “gay history” studies mandatory in classrooms.

leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_0001-0050/sb_48_bill_20110714_chaptered.pdf

So, what does this mean? Nothing. A person will not perform their job differently or better if they are a man or woman, gay or straight. That is a simple fact.

Why and how did “gender identity” become an issue?

telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/08/number-children-referred-gender-identity-clinics-has-quadrupled/

In California, the following regulations have come into force: “New Transgender Identity and Expression Regulations” (July 1, 2017)

calemploymentlawupdate.proskauer.com/2017/06/new-transgender-identity-and-expression-regulations-july-1-2017/

Ed

 

[Lion_IRC]

All the social changes arising from same-sex ‘marriage’ are deemed worthy and ethical by the gay lobby. Surrogate children being artificially deprived of a gender-balanced nuclear family so that two gay men can play “mummy and daddy” is not regarded as an abomination.
The politically correct mainstream media think it’s fabulous.

…never mind that the bible says Honor your Mother AND Father.

 

[eamonnroma]

I think that in countries with SSM, people get on with their lives as before, maybe having more respect for other people.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Many thanks for all the replies!

:yup:

There is more divergence than I expected. At one end, we have some reporting that SSM has been good for society, to others reporting that there have been multiple instances of oppression and loss of freedom.

No-one has reported a widespread loss of freedom, yet. Some may argue that the long term aim of (some of?) the LGBTI activists is totalitarian, ever reducing religious freedoms and “homophobic” (ie. straight) influence, so a widespread loss of freedom is only a matter of time, unless checked.

As one poster noted, we have already seen the agenda in Australia, even before the introduction of SSM.

Another common response has been that whatever is happening at the extremes, life tends to go on as normal for most people.

Another poster suggested that national constitutions will make a difference. That is a very good point. However, I suspect that this may only be important in the short term, unless we vigorously defend them. If the long term agenda is totalitarian, then they (progressive activists in general) will find a way around these. They aren’t stupid. The general public and media are horribly indifferent to abuse of process. We’ve seen it in Australia repeatedly.

Thanks again!

 

[faithsmind]

I remember being curious about this same issue when the US amended marriage laws. I did discover that when Canada effected the 2005 homosexual marriage amendment, Marriages statistics plummeted, and shacking up soared immediately following. Who ends up hurt by this (because shacking up usually doesn’t last in the long term)? Unfortunately, innocent children from broken homes are the by-products. I just need to track these statistics down once more.

 

[faithsmind]

Oh. Sadly, here are the statistics. Heartbreaking, really:

www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/as-sa/98-312-x/98-312-x2011001-eng.cfm

 

[MaryT777]

I think that in countries with SSM, people get on with their lives as before, maybe having more respect for other people.

They may get on with their lives but children in such SSM situations no matter how the means are deprived of either a mother or father. It’s always the children that suffer.

 

[josh987654321]

.

You have been duped by the propaganda.

1. Trump is NOT a white supremacist and never has been, neither is anyone in his administration, nor were they on the campaign. This is a totally unjust and unfounded accusation.

youtube.com/watch?v=XwUnznN1fbQ

And of course, the propaganda media will say that the KKK supports Trump.

Trump was absolutely 100% correct to condemn violence on BOTH sides at Charlottesville. Those wearing masks and engaging in violence should be arrested.

Ask yourself why the mask wearing thugs known as ‘Antifa’ are rarely covered by the main stream media?

1. What Missiles that killed civilians are you talking about? This was all done under Obama’s administration and even then the propaganda was active in ignoring such things, yet condemning Russia and Assad whenever they could. Not only that, but Obama’s administration armed and paid these people who became ISIS, and even when they were ISIS, they did little to combat them and condemned Russia who were doing so, because ISIS was a group they didn’t have to pay or take any responsibility for trying to overthrow Assad which is what Obama’s administration wanted from the get go.
2. Give me an example(s) of *‘divisive and hatred filled politics’ * what are these ‘divisive policies’ that you speak of? because that is a totally unjust accusation and that accusation should be put at the feet of Obama, Clinton and her supporters where it really belongs.
3. I also think selling arms to Saudi Arabia was a mistake
4. Trumps rhetoric with North Korea is absolutely correct.

When Pyongyang are making these threats, lunching missiles and treating their citizens to images of blowing up the USA, the USA needs to have tough rhetoric to stand their ground.

What I do think definitely wrong is any talk of some kind of ‘pre-emptive strike’ by the USA, as any kind of pre-emptive strike would be a huge mistake, it was the attack on Peal Harbor which galvanized the USA and other nations against Japan in WWII, and the Japanese sought this attack under the justification of a ‘pre-emptive strike’.

So any kind of ‘pre-emptive strike’ or assassination attempt, would be very wrong for the USA to do/attempt and I really hope they don’t consider any of those options, which would no doubt backfire on them.

Trump and the USA just need to maintain their ground and be ready in defense if North Korea tries to strike them or their allies. If Pyongyang threatens to strike, it’s good that Trump makes them aware that they are ready to defend themselves and will strike back with ‘fire and fury like the world has never seen’ against North Korea if North Korea chooses to attack.

If someone is threatening to wipe me and my loved ones off the face of the earth with an Atomic Bomb, I certainly want a President who says that if they do, they will be met with Fire and Fury in retaliation like the world has never seen.
Trumps tweet:

Military solutions are now fully in place,locked and loaded,should North Korea act unwisely. Hopefully Kim Jong Un will find another path!

And posting up a picture of a B1-B Lancer on Guam, is a very wise thing to have said and done.

1. I also call a spade and spade and that’s why I’m calling you out and all of the propaganda being spread. You should ask your Christian friends where they stand on issues such as abortion, euthanasia and same sex marriage, then we will see how Christian they are and who are really the hypocrites here.

I hope this has helped

Thank you for reading
Josh