What I believe now

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… after roughly nine months of searching for answers – Catholic Answers – these are my conclusions:
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  1. I’m not sure God exists…
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  1. I’m not sure it is possible to even know whether He exists…
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Laurence, now, you’re not going to give up after a measly nine months are you? That’s hardly enough time to question anything properly.
To the ignorant it brings everlasting assurance…
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Be careful who you call ignorant. It has a way of biting you back.😃
You might take this as sarcasm, but I will mean it with the utmost sincerity:
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God, if you exist and exist in the way the Catholic Church says you do, show me a sign over the next week. Please.
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Oooo man, do you REALLY want this? Has God ever shown anyone an undeniably miraculous sign in the last 4000 years? If He has, what tends to happen to the life of the witness (ie. total surrender to God, even to the point of martyrdom)? Does the testimony of these witnesses mean anything? Did a burning bush speak, was the Red Sea parted, did Jericho’s walls fall with trumpets, was a blind person’s sight restored with spit and dirt, was Lazarus dead and was made alive? Or more contemporarily, did the sun perform inexplicable movements at Fatima, did Bernadette Soubirous see Our Lady at Lourdes, did 15 people see an apparition in the rain at Knock? Why do you and other agnostics seem to disregard the numerous experiences of others? Are you dead-certain they are all liars and/or suffering from psychoses?

If you want to derive your knowledge from logic, well try your knowledge and experience of human nature: How many of the remaining apostolic contemporaries of Jesus were killed on account of their direct eyewitness of (not just belief in) the miracles and resurrection of Jesus? Try 10 of 11. Including Thomas. Now that’s something to ponder … 😉

Now, are you really, really ready to ask God for a demonstration of His existence?

-Tim
 
Be careful, Laurence. Catholics hold very, very, very seriously to the understanding of ‘Thou shalt not tempt the Lord, Thy God.’

I’d advise that when you pray, just pray humbily. I wouldn’t ask for “signs” so that you may believe. You might end up getting your “signs” alright, and you will believe! But judging from the plague incident, you might be a paraplegic, flat on your back for the rest of your life, BUT a believer!

When I said Jesus Christ is your proof, I wasn’t refering to the ‘warm fuzzies.’ I meant, logical, physically verifiable proof.

Trace Him. Pretend you’re an alien that has landed on this mudhole. You’re studying and learning your surroundings when you hear of prominent humans who have made a significant difference to existence; Einy, Bell, Hitler, Mohammed, Jesus, Caesar, Romulus, Moses, Noah…etc etc.

By an elimination process you will find only ONE name stands out because the Name alone has covered the globe from age to age, (length of time) and because of ‘the change’ that Name brings and the claim of being God!

Examine and investigate backwards and ‘trace Him’ and you will see your proof. But I warn you though, that you will still require to make a conscious decision as to His Divinity. There is voluminous evidence to decipher and sift through, since you like “informed decisions” but you will still need ‘faith’ because you have a freedom of choice that God will not interfere with.

If you find that God does ‘exist’ you will quickly connect all the dots and realise that you are absolutely surrounded by evidence of God’s handiwork and Presence.

If you find otherwise, hey! what can I say? Do I look like a roadmap?

:cool:
 
Deconi said:
I’d advise that when you pray, just pray humbily. I wouldn’t ask for “signs” so that you may believe. You might end up getting your “signs” alright, and you will believe! But judging from the plague incident, you might be a paraplegic, flat on your back for the rest of your life, BUT a believer!
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Well then, you have a week to run over me with you car! 😛
When I said Jesus Christ is your proof, I wasn’t refering to the ‘warm fuzzies.’ I meant, logical, physically verifiable proof.
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Is that why Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Muslims, and Unitarian Pentecostals reject him as God?
Trace Him. Pretend you’re an alien that has landed on this mudhole. You’re studying and learning your surroundings when you hear of prominent humans who have made a significant difference to existence; Einy, Bell, Hitler, Mohammed, Jesus, Caesar, Romulus, Moses, Noah…etc etc.
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If I was an alien who landed on earth, I’d make bets with my alien friends over how many of your species I could get to worship me.
By an elimination process you will find only ONE name stands out because the Name alone has covered the globe from age to age, (length of time) and because of ‘the change’ that Name brings and the claim of being God!
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What better way make your message of peace and hope everlasting than to claim to be God? If anything, I might respect Him more if He *was *just lying about being God. It would have taken some good-intentioned-guts.
 
Laurence_of_PA said:
What better way make your message of peace and hope everlasting than to claim to be God? If anything, I might respect Him more if He *was *just lying about being God. It would have taken some good-intentioned-guts.
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Got guts?
 
and not to forget the fact there are several of us, whom are like minded responding to you. Of all the people who could have responded. God whispers. Thats why you need to be open to listening.

🙂
 
Laurence_of_PA said:
Well then, you have a week to run over me with you car! 😛

Is that why Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Muslims, and Unitarian Pentecostals reject him as God?

If I was an alien who landed on earth, I’d make bets with my alien friends over how many of your species I could get to worship me.

What better way make your message of peace and hope everlasting than to claim to be God? If anything, I might respect Him more if He *was *just lying about being God. It would have taken some good-intentioned-guts.
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Be careful, else you’ll get coal for Christmas.

peace

PS what’s a realistic relativist?
 
Laurence_of_PA said:
Well then, you have a week to run over me with you car! 😛
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All I meant is that, be careful about asking for signs. They WILL make you believe, but might leave you immobilized.
Laurence_of_PA said:
Is that why Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Muslims, and Unitarian Pentecostals reject him as God?
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ALL OF THEM believe that He existed, i.e exists! That is the point of ‘physically, traceable evidence.’ They just reject that He IS who He said He IS! That is my point on the ‘faith’ thing.
Laurence_of_PA said:
If I was an alien who landed on earth, I’d make bets with my alien friends over how many of your species I could get to worship me.
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You would WIN if you can allow yourself to be flogged to pieces, stabbed with a spear, get buried and rise again full of holes and say you’re hungry!
Laurence_of_PA said:
What better way make your message of peace and hope everlasting than to claim to be God? If anything, I might respect Him more if He *was *just lying about being God. It would have taken some good-intentioned-guts.
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No fool dies for something he knows to be false! The Muslims are teaching us that, because they truly believe what they believe when they take flying lessons.

The claim of BEING God leaves a clear choice between a madman and reality! The choice still belongs to the decision maker.

:cool:
 
mgrfin said:
Be careful, else you’ll get coal for Christmas.
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I’m from the Anthracite Coal Capital of the World. The shiny stuff’s no longer mined the way it was before the Knox Mine Disaster, but guess where Santa *goes *for his coal? :cool:
PS what’s a realistic relativist?
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Whatever you want it to mean. 😉
 
Laurence_of_PA said:
(For the sake of being read, I’ll keep this briefaspossible…)

I’ve been through these forums in and out, trying to gain insight and faith in my childhood faith, but after roughly nine months of searching for answers – *Catholic *Answers – these are my conclusions:
  1. I’m not sure God exists…
  2. I’m not sure it is possible to even *know *whether He exists…
**However…What I *am ***sure of is religion:

Religion – *especially *organized religion – can and *will *continue to be a great and unifying force in society that brings health and hope to billions of people across the globe. Granted, religion is responsible for many of the ills of human history, yet so long as religion – or any ideology for that matter – is focused upon the needs of its people, it makes for positive medicine.

To the ignorant it brings everlasting assurance…👍

To the informed it brings everlasting debate…👍

So I may be agnostic now, but give me a call and I’ll merrily pass out pamphlets! 😃
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Some people have poetic brilliance, or artistic majesty that can cut to the core of one’s being, but these few lines always leave me floored:

And the scribes and the Pharisees bring unto him a woman taken in adultery: and they set her in the midst, 4 And said to him: Master, this woman was even now taken in adultery. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us to stone such a one. But what sayest thou?

6 And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. 9 But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?

11 Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more. 12 Again therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying:** I am the light of the world: he that followeth me, walketh not in darkness, but shall have the light of life. **

Sometimes, divine inspiration is so evident in the gospel, that I cannot see how any can argue against it.

In Jesus Christ,
 
Magicsilence said:
Some people have poetic brilliance, or artistic majesty that can cut to the core of one’s being, but these few lines always leave me floored:

And the scribes and the Pharisees bring unto him a woman taken in adultery: and they set her in the midst, 4 And said to him: Master, this woman was even now taken in adultery. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us to stone such a one. But what sayest thou?

6 And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. 9 But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?

11 Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more. 12 Again therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying:** I am the light of the world: he that followeth me, walketh not in darkness, but shall have the light of life. **

Sometimes, divine inspiration is so evident in the gospel, that I cannot see how any can argue against it.

In Jesus Christ,
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It is beautiful. With that I cannot disagree.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
We won’t. It is not our right to condemn others. We can only hope that you will return back to God.
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Yes, yes, of course! I know! And I will try to reciprocate the kind thoughts.

Now, can anyone take a simple joke? :eek:

I was implying that Magicsilence is a bad, sinful person, but since I was jesting, I put the Big Grin face up to indicate my lack of seriousness.
 
AgnosTheist said:
Hello there, fellow agnostic. 🙂

i dont get it, how is it logical & physically verifiable that the only proof that God exists is Jesus Christ? 🤷
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It is not the sole indicator, although many people find the objective reality of Christ to be massively conducive to faith.

In Him,
 
AgnosTheist said:
Hello there, fellow agnostic. 🙂

i dont get it, how is it logical & physically verifiable that the only proof that God exists is Jesus Christ? 🤷
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The name of Jesus is essentially where the rubber hits the road.

🙂
 
Laurence,

a very good way to see if God exists is to ask Him. Ask this God, who ever or whatever He/it is, if He is out there, to reveal Himself to you. Ask this everyday, for two weeks straight, and see what happens.

It takes a lot of courage to do this.

Also, it would be a good idea to stay away from discussions such as these while doing this, as it can interfere with the people God really might want to work through in real life, not the
one dimensional world of the internet.
 
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