What I don't like about Catholics...as a Catholic.

[Apryl]

I am not offended personally. I am offended by the scandolous and serious lack of charity and ruthless judging and arrogance of some of the posters here. And now I’m being judged for my feelings? Get real.

‘Lack of charity’?

Would you consider it a ‘lack of charity’ to see someone with her skirt stuck in her pantyhose and you tell her ‘you should correct that’?

Where is the ‘lack of charity’? 'Smatter of fact, I believe it is MORE charitable to see someone who is erring in their way, esp being disrespectful in church, and letting them know what they are doing that is wrong, and why. Now, if I were to say, ‘such people need to be tossed into a pit and set aflame’, THAT would be uncharitable.

That is not the case. What has been said here is that the actions/behaviors were wrong.

Some folks are drawn to the Mass by only the barest flicker of the Holy Spirit that their sinful state can let in. If this brings them to church in shorts and sandals, or if they don’t know what the red light is next to the tabernacle, or if their lack of understanding of what is going on leads them to whisper a bit with their neighbor (or perhaps they are enduring mental illness or other disabilitiy), who are YOU to judge that they should leave?

I admit I haven’t read every post in this thread, but I most certainly am not of the ‘they should leave’ camp. Never suggested it. However, their behavior is still inappropriate for church. What amazes me is the excuse that there is this flicker and this need, but so often, these same people would NEVER go to a friend’s party, or to even a movie theater dressed the same way that they come to church. Why is it ok to be at your worst, WHEN YOU DON’T HAVE TO BE, but you would never show such a lack of respect for a person?

If we just had people who were having a bad day, or a bad moment, to come into Mass looking like they had just rolled off of a baseball diamond, it probably wouldn’t be enough for so many of us to talk about.

Shorts and sandals? There ARE shorts and sandals that could look nice, even in church! But I’m sure that those of us who complain of the attire are talking about the shorts and sandals that look like ‘Oh… is this clean enough to wear out of the house’ or ‘how much shorter can I get?’

And what are YOU doing to show Christ’s love and compassion and forgiveness and gradually draw them in with that love to a greater understanding a reverence? If people aren’t showing proper reverence to the tabernacle or the Mass, it is because they don’t know.

What I’m doing is gently correcting them so that they can know what is being done, and why. If they ask me, ‘why do you bow in the middle of the church?’, I would never respond ‘What? you don’t know? Why don’t you know? Someone should have told you before now!’. No, I answer the question and even tell what it means to me.

I am offended that our mother church has done such a poor job of catechizing its own members, supposedly lay ministers of the church, to the evils of self-righteousness, arrogance and lack of charity. The attitude that Jesus demonstrated for us drew in sinners, attracted them, lured them into his love and forgiveness first, and then to deeper understanding. What I see here is folks who drive people away, offend them and then innocently ask, “oopsie did I offend”? How trite. How sad. And then you cover it all with “correcting out of charity.” And typing up a cold list of hates and invite others to come up with their own hate lists.

I agree! I think it’s awful that people don’t get that we need to be compassionate at all times and in all ways. I think it’s also awful that some want to try to chastise some one FOR DOING WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING, and in turn, turn their own Self-Righteous button on.

Oh… wait… you hadn’t considered that?

The list is there. If you don’t like it, don’t be a party to it and don’t allow others to fall into that themselves.

If you think blowing me or any other Christian out of the water in the name of “correcting out of charity” is going to bring one more soul to heaven, you are sorely mistaken. What you are doing is turning folks off from the love and protection of Christ’s love. And you should be ashamed.

I will take my “offense” which you seem to think is my fault for “choosing” out of this thread, now and you can go on discussing how disgusting your fellow sisters and brothers in Christ are for not appreciating God as much as you do and not acting (appearing) as reverent as you do.

And excuse my emotional rant from the heart - but perhaps you can excuse it all as my own attempt to charitably correct your lack of charity and brotherly love.

Funny: If I say that I don’t like something, I’m judgemental. But if someone says that I’m wrong for my thoughts, should be ashamed, and I’m “sorely mistaken”, that is now judgmental.

I don’t get it. Doesn’t add up to me. Seems like the original list, any additions, and my posts combined pale in the judgement that you’ve shown.

There’s that guy in the mirror, you know

 

[Nicea325]

Wow. I’m feeling pretty rotten now. We very seldom can come to Mass as we only have one vehicle and my husband works on Saturdays and Sundays. And when we do, since my son with special needs is not accustomed to going, he tends to make a scene (he has special needs). He absolutely insists on trying to genuflect, but he is very uncoordinated with leg braces so it becomes a long, distracting thing for everyone. And he doesn’t quite understand whispering so he tends to talk a bit loudly throughout. And during the sign of peace part, he wants to shake hands with everyone and if we try to break him off when its time for the Lamb of God… well, another little scene. And there is no crying room or such to retreat to.

Our Priest wears sandals or even flip flops and shorts under his vestments so I guess even he can’t make it off Nicea’s list. We have no air-conditioning in our tiny church, and when it reaches 109 degress, who can blame him? But he sorta strips off his vestment as soon as he reaches the back of the church. I go so seldom, but I’m sure I’ve worn sandals myself. And my son, 14 years old, wears shorts – he overheats and it is so much easier with the leg braces.

I try to tell myself that my dingy clothing (we are pretty stressed financially), and unruly child and all will be forgiven by the others in our church because they know we are only doing our best. But then I read this list of judgments and I wonder who in our parish is judging us similarly? If it was just a cranky old person, the kind that routinely throw dirty looks at others, I could shrug it off - we have had to do it often enough. But if Nicea works for the church… well, that puts another spin on things. Perhaps we really aren’t welcome and the only reason no one’s talked to us about it is they are being polite?

I am not offended. I am profoundly disturbed. Nicea makes me feel unwelcome and unloved. He/she makes me feel judged not worthy to be a Catholic.

My Mom is Jewish. Once we were camping with the Girl Scouts, and she was assigned to drive the little Catholic girls to Mass on Sunday. We were 4 days camping, no bathing, smelly and dirty/dusty. My mother respectfully stood in the back of the church (she would have stood outside, but it was cold). The Priest was just starting Mass, welcoming everyone and saw my mother standing in the back. He walked down the aisle and took her hand and drew her to a pew in front. She muttered, “no Father, I am Jewish and very dusty and dirty.” He just laughed and said, I know a Man and a woman who had the same afflictions, and they are the reason I am here. Come… you are our guest and you are welcome."

My mother never forgot that Priest. She retold the story to us over and over. When I converted to Catholicism, I worried how my Jewish mother would take it. She just smiled and said if I “had” to be a Christian, thank God I chose to be Catholic!

Do you think there are still people like that in our Church? Or is Nicea becoming the norm?

Sojo by all means I was not trying to make you feel rotten. I understand many only have one car or work on the weekends cannot attend Mass. Likewise, as the Director of Catechesis I know it is extra difficult when families have children with special needs,so please do not think I am being harsh on families with difficulties.

 

[Nicea325]

Some of the points you have shown i have seen them myself, but not all. I am particularly interested in NO 10. could you explain more on it? I will appreciate for your kind help.

God Bless.

Sure.

Catholics are under no obligation to tithe a certain percentage of their income to the Church. The Church does require the following:

The fifth precept (“You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church”) means that the faithful are obliged to assist with the material needs of the Church, each according to his own ability. . . The faithful also have the duty of providing for the material needs of the Church, each according to his own abilities. (CCC 2043)
The Christian faithful are obliged to assist with the needs of the Church so that the Church has what is necessary for divine worship, for apostolic works and works of charity, and for the decent sustenance of ministers. They are also obliged to promote social justice and, mindful of the precept of the Lord, to assist the poor from their own resources. (CIC 222)

There is no mandatory requirement to give a specific amount of money or percentage of our income. We should each decide for ourselves how much to give and then do so in the true spirit of giving a gift.

On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper. (1 Cor. 16:2)

The point is this: he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must do as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. (2 Cor. 9:6–7)
There is no mandatory requirement to give a specific amount of money or percentage of our income. We should each decide for ourselves how much to give and then do so in the true spirit of giving a gift.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Wow. I’m feeling pretty rotten now. We very seldom can come to Mass as we only have one vehicle and my husband works on Saturdays and Sundays. And when we do, since my son with special needs is not accustomed to going, he tends to make a scene (he has special needs). He absolutely insists on trying to genuflect, but he is very uncoordinated with leg braces so it becomes a long, distracting thing for everyone. And he doesn’t quite understand whispering so he tends to talk a bit loudly throughout. And during the sign of peace part, he wants to shake hands with everyone and if we try to break him off when its time for the Lamb of God… well, another little scene. And there is no crying room or such to retreat to.

Our Priest wears sandals or even flip flops and shorts under his vestments so I guess even he can’t make it off Nicea’s list. We have no air-conditioning in our tiny church, and when it reaches 109 degress, who can blame him? But he sorta strips off his vestment as soon as he reaches the back of the church. I go so seldom, but I’m sure I’ve worn sandals myself. And my son, 14 years old, wears shorts – he overheats and it is so much easier with the leg braces.

I try to tell myself that my dingy clothing (we are pretty stressed financially), and unruly child and all will be forgiven by the others in our church because they know we are only doing our best. But then I read this list of judgments and I wonder who in our parish is judging us similarly? If it was just a cranky old person, the kind that routinely throw dirty looks at others, I could shrug it off - we have had to do it often enough. But if Nicea works for the church… well, that puts another spin on things. Perhaps we really aren’t welcome and the only reason no one’s talked to us about it is they are being polite?

I am not offended. I am profoundly disturbed. Nicea makes me feel unwelcome and unloved. He/she makes me feel judged not worthy to be a Catholic.

My Mom is Jewish. Once we were camping with the Girl Scouts, and she was assigned to drive the little Catholic girls to Mass on Sunday. We were 4 days camping, no bathing, smelly and dirty/dusty. My mother respectfully stood in the back of the church (she would have stood outside, but it was cold). The Priest was just starting Mass, welcoming everyone and saw my mother standing in the back. He walked down the aisle and took her hand and drew her to a pew in front. She muttered, “no Father, I am Jewish and very dusty and dirty.” He just laughed and said, I know a Man and a woman who had the same afflictions, and they are the reason I am here. Come… you are our guest and you are welcome."

My mother never forgot that Priest. She retold the story to us over and over. When I converted to Catholicism, I worried how my Jewish mother would take it. She just smiled and said if I “had” to be a Christian, thank God I chose to be Catholic!

Do you think there are still people like that in our Church? Or is Nicea becoming the norm?

Yes, no worries, there are still people like that in the Church. It’s not anyone’s place to judge you except for God. We don’t have a crying room in our new church and I know our priest would welcome your entire family and your son would probably be adopted by the entire parish.

There are even priests like that. Wow, I am impressed with him!!

I kind of had the same reaction to the list. I started wondering if people were looking at me and whispering to each other about the way I was dressed. But you know what? That is on them, not on me. And I don’t think they care how I am dressed. I think it is rare for people to care how I dress at Mass, or if someone has a crying baby and there is no crying room. In fact, when our new church was built, the priest made a point of saying that babies are welcome as they are part of the parish, too. And if someone got up with a crying baby and started to walk out of the church he/she would probably be stopped and told that he/she and the baby are welcome to stay (perhaps by an usher if the priest is conducting Mass).

If it’s hot and the priest is wearing vestments, what could possibly be wrong with wearing shorts underneath? Would it be better if he fainted from the heat? That would really disrupt the Mass. I have hot flashes and the sweat drips off my face. I see people wearing coats and I’m wearing as little as possible. Would it be better for me to faint from the heat? Or you?

 

[LittleSoldier]

‘Lack of charity’?

Would you consider it a ‘lack of charity’ to see someone with her skirt stuck in her pantyhose and you tell her ‘you should correct that’?

But where did Sojo say she ever had her skirt stuck in her pantyhose? There’s a big difference between his/her situation and a social faux pas.

Where is the ‘lack of charity’? 'Smatter of fact, I believe it is MORE charitable to see someone who is erring in their way, esp being disrespectful in church, and letting them know what they are doing that is wrong, and why. Now, if I were to say, ‘such people need to be tossed into a pit and set aflame’, THAT would be uncharitable.

And who decides who is erring in their way? You? Are you the one who walks up to people and tells them they are doing wrong? Do you have a list and if someone is doing something on that list in your opinion, do you walk up to them and tell them they are wrong? If you did that to me I would laugh my head off. It’s not your call.

I admit I haven’t read every post in this thread, but I most certainly am not of the ‘they should leave’ camp. Never suggested it. However, their behavior is still inappropriate for church. What amazes me is the excuse that there is this flicker and this need, but so often, these same people would NEVER go to a friend’s party, or to even a movie theater dressed the same way that they come to church. Why is it ok to be at your worst, WHEN YOU DON’T HAVE TO BE, but you would never show such a lack of respect for a person?

Sojo said her family is financially strapped and there is a disabled son with special needs. I am disabled and on a limited fixed income. I doubt very much that either Sojo’s family or myself are going to go the parties dressed more nicely than the way we dress for church. It almost sounds as though you are saying Sojo is too lazy to dress “correctly” for Mass. It’s not your call.

If you walked up to a person that you had decided was doing wrong, and “charitably” told that person he/she was doing wrong I guess you would need to interview them about their finances, health, SES, etc. It’s not your call.

If we just had people who were having a bad day, or a bad moment, to come into Mass looking like they had just rolled off of a baseball diamond, it probably wouldn’t be enough for so many of us to talk about.

Shorts and sandals? There ARE shorts and sandals that could look nice, even in church! But I’m sure that those of us who complain of the attire are talking about the shorts and sandals that look like ‘Oh… is this clean enough to wear out of the house’ or ‘how much shorter can I get?’

Oh. I guess you weren’t on the thread where I was told I should cover my knees, elbows, and most of my neck - otherwise I was being immodest and immoral and was guilty of leading men into sin. Shorts, any types of shorts, were wrong absolutely everywhere as were jeans and short-sleeved shirts, and (gasp!) sleeveless shirts. I was even told that if I didn’t wear the “proper” clothes and went to Confession I could cause lustful thoughts in the priest’s mind and I would then be guilty for leading him into sin.

BTW, most of this was from a woman. There are an awful lot of Catholics around who think they can write the rules for what is appropriate and if one is not appropriate, then there is trouble. It’s not your call.

What I’m doing is gently correcting them so that they can know what is being done, and why. If they ask me, ‘why do you bow in the middle of the church?’, I would never respond ‘What? you don’t know? Why don’t you know? Someone should have told you before now!’. No, I answer the question and even tell what it means to me.

Do you only “gently correct” when someone asks you a question? Or do you “gently correct” when you see something that you think is inappropriate? I would appreciate that if my skirt were caught in my pantyhose or if my fly were down or if my nose had something sticking out of it. But if it comes to someone bringing a disabled son to Mass, or wearing dingy clothing, or not being able to make it to Mass every Sunday, or not knowing why that candle is there, it is not your call.

I agree! I think it’s awful that people don’t get that we need to be compassionate at all times and in all ways. I think it’s also awful that some want to try to chastise some one FOR DOING WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING, and in turn, turn their own Self-Righteous button on.

Oh… wait… you hadn’t considered that?

I see no self-righteouness in Sojo. I see it in a lot of other places. Is the part of your charitable, compassionate communication of what is inappropriate? I see it as hurtful and mean.

The list is there. If you don’t like it, don’t be a party to it and don’t allow others to fall into that themselves.

The list is not dogma and the OP did not present it as dogma. It is one person’s opinion. It is a means to start a discussion. It’s not your call.

Funny: If I say that I don’t like something, I’m judgemental. But if someone says that I’m wrong for my thoughts, should be ashamed, and I’m “sorely mistaken”, that is now judgmental.

I missed this.

I don’t get it. Doesn’t add up to me. Seems like the original list, any additions, and my posts combined pale in the judgement that you’ve shown.

There’s that guy in the mirror, you know

Sojo is not showing judgment IMHO. Sojo is showing anger and hurt; emotions she has every right to feel. And that is because it is not your call and it isn’t anyone else’s call except for God, Sojo, and Sojo’s priest.

 

[John_oxios]

Isthe first part your comment a jab at Mormons and Evangelicals? I am not sure how that pertains to my comment…
Nana

hell Nana
Catholics don’t believe in a Rapture, even though the Fundamentalists got the expreession from the Vulgate!

It was a jab, at not dressing to the humble 9’s like Baptists at their service and what 'proper dress @ Mass.

I like to go to daily Mass when I can, so for several yrs. I go to go while on Construction Job in Little Italy, the Building ‘supe’ was an devout catholic who loved to read and talk scripture on the job. Never thought of how I was dressed just how Happy I was to get the opportunity to be there. And again when given the opportunity I go, however I am dressed, sometimes I am just passing by @ the right time. If I had to worry about my work clothes the shorts I was in, or if i was wearing sandals, I’d miss a lot of Gospels readings (aloud} and teachings/ homilies.

God bless,
Nana

 

[Apryl]

I kind of had the same reaction to the list. I started wondering if people were looking at me and whispering to each other about the way I was dressed. But you know what? That is on them, not on me.

I find it interesting how people jump into someone else’s line of fire.

If you mention ‘kids who came from single parent households’… "Well, my husband died when my baby was 3 months old. So I guess that means everything you said about children from single parent households in general applies to me and my family - Um… NO.

The comments about attire: I want to say, ‘the guilty ones know who they are’… but maybe they don’t. Maybe the ones who are not guilty think this applies to them.

I have been in a church where a woman came in LATE, and WALKED THROUGH THE CHURCH, with a skin tight dress that was up half way along her thigh. C’mon! She could have had on something more appropriate (modest) than that.

I have been in church where the young men were in jersies to their knees, the shoes with wheels in the base (and they were rolling on them).

I have also seen some in cover alls, or over alls, and they were barely noticed. Why? They took their hat off when they came in. If it’s just the overall, or just the shoes, that would be different. We are not talking about those people (and probaly not you)

Perhaps you haven’t seen these offensive things. Maybe if you saw them, you didn’t even notice or have a clue how any one else could find them offensive. But why is it ok to just reject our opinion that what we have seen (and you have not) is offensive?

Is there anything that you could see in a church that would be unacceptable? C’mon… really? If a woman came in wearing a thong style bikini, would you just say, ‘that’s all she had’? What if a person came in with a t-shirt that had, in large print, a profane message? Would that be ok to you?

What if a person came into church fully covered, then began to fan and peel off clothes… and then after the display, they say to you, 'I’m not really hot. I just wanted people to watch me undress" Then what?

Again, if you see something that is totally reprehensible, is it ok for you to be bothered?

Then what makes it different for me to see something that is totally reprehensible and I am bothered?

(I’d love to hear this one)

 

[LittleSoldier]

Nicea,

Are the ushers at your church trained to know what to do if someone is being utterly disrespectful or there is another emergency?

This is off-topic but I was talking to a friend on the phone yesterday and she said that she was at Mass one Sunday and the priest had a massive heart attack right before Communion was going to be distributed. He died right away, right there at the altar. The bread and wine had been changed into the Body and Blood of Christ.

The ushers locked the doors, called a nearby church, and a priest from that church came over to distribute Communion and complete the Mass.

I may have some of the particulars wrong, but basically that is what happened. She told me that ushers are trained to do more than just seat people. They are there to help in case something goes wrong.

I’m curious as to how much power ushers have. Do you know? Thanks!

 

[LittleSoldier]

I find it interesting how people jump into someone else’s line of fire.

If you mention ‘kids who came from single parent households’… "Well, my husband died when my baby was 3 months old. So I guess that means everything you said about children from single parent households in general applies to me and my family - Um… NO.

The comments about attire: I want to say, ‘the guilty ones know who they are’… but maybe they don’t. Maybe the ones who are not guilty think this applies to them.

I have been in a church where a woman came in LATE, and WALKED THROUGH THE CHURCH, with a skin tight dress that was up half way along her thigh. C’mon! She could have had on something more appropriate (modest) than that.

I have been in church where the young men were in jersies to their knees, the shoes with wheels in the base (and they were rolling on them).

I have also seen some in cover alls, or over alls, and they were barely noticed. Why? They took their hat off when they came in. If it’s just the overall, or just the shoes, that would be different. We are not talking about those people (and probaly not you)

Perhaps you haven’t seen these offensive things. Maybe if you saw them, you didn’t even notice or have a clue how any one else could find them offensive. But why is it ok to just reject our opinion that what we have seen (and you have not) is offensive?

Is there anything that you could see in a church that would be unacceptable? C’mon… really? If a woman came in wearing a thong style bikini, would you just say, ‘that’s all she had’? What if a person came in with a t-shirt that had, in large print, a profane message? Would that be ok to you?

What if a person came into church fully covered, then began to fan and peel off clothes… and then after the display, they say to you, 'I’m not really hot. I just wanted people to watch me undress" Then what?

Again, if you see something that is totally reprehensible, is it ok for you to be bothered?

Then what makes it different for me to see something that is totally reprehensible and I am bothered?

(I’d love to hear this one)

You are being ridiculous. Do those scenarios happen often at your church? Do women perform stripteases every Sunday or only on Easter and Christmas? IT IS NOT YOUR CALL. An usher will most likely take care of it. Why are you even noticing? Why aren’t your eyes where they should be? You remind me of the nuns when I was at Catholic school, with their clickers and their eyes everywhere except where they should be - on the altar, and their minds focusing on bad behavior instead of on the Mass. Oh, they would see a child do something just awful like pick his nose and one of them would be there shaking him or pulling him out of the church by his ear.

BTW, I said nothing about single parent households. You have me mixed up with someone else.

I’m just sitting here thinking about how all this is making it so much easier for me to leave the church. I’m so tired of self-righteous Catholics who believe they are the ones who can decide what is right and what is wrong. Just sitting here thinking…

 

[John_oxios]

Apryl;7008638]‘Lack of charity’?

Would you consider it a ‘lack of charity’ to see someone with her skirt stuck in her pantyhose and you tell her ‘you should correct that’?

Hi Apryl,
You got me there! Sounds like a whole 'nother topic! What’s a gentleman to do when he sees a gal with ‘her skirt stuck in her panty hose?’
I’m fifty three trs. of age, and can’t say I’ve seen that in or out of Church!

I can’t even tell you how to react 'when a gal’s got her panty hose in a sling"

We’re guys!

Where is the ‘lack of charity’? 'Smatter of fact, I believe it is MORE charitable to see someone who is erring in their way, esp being disrespectful in church, and letting them know what they are doing that is wrong, and why. Now, if I were to say, ‘such people need to be tossed into a pit and set aflame’, THAT would be uncharitable.

We are not the fashion police, if you know the person and can approach them in a respectful and friendly way, well then state your case. However it is the person who has the problem with it to tell the priest of inappropriate dress and behavior during His Mass. Most people will shoot back, and resent you! It’s only human. We don’t know their situation… what they may need is compassion, and understanding, rather than a correction or rebuke.

Apryl,I admit I haven’t read every post in this thread, but I most certainly am not of the ‘they should leave’ camp. Never suggested it. However, their behavior is still inappropriate for church.

Humans react in human ways, correct a person and then you alienate them them, most of us are not behavioral shrinks… we tend to come on too strong… the easiest thing to do when someone’offends’ you? Is to move away. Take it to the Priest.

If we just had people who were having a bad day, or a bad moment, to come into Mass looking like they had just rolled off of a baseball diamond, it probably wouldn’t be enough for so many of us to talk about.

exactly!

What I’m doing is gently correcting them so that they can know what is being done, and why. If they ask me, ‘why do you bow in the middle of the church?’, I would never respond ‘What? you don’t know? Why don’t you know? Someone should have told you before now!’. No, I answer the question and even tell what it means to me.

exactly, Like the light in front of the Tabernacle, they may have been told during catechesis, but were not listening for what ever reason! How many of our children would rather be outside playing than sitting thru a religious lesson… It’s no big sin, not to know!
When the student is ready the teacher appears.

I agree! I think it’s awful that people don’t get that we need to be compassionate at all times and in all ways. I think it’s also awful that some want to try to chastise some one FOR DOING WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING, and in turn, turn their own Self-Righteous button on

.

Ever go to parochial school? I got chatised all the time, I had a dysfunctional home and got punished, because I was a part of it, by Nuns, and Christian brothers… nobody consulted my divorced parents, or addressed the issue… just punished the child.
To this day I am eerie of nuns, it took me yrs to tune in to Mother Angelica on EWTN.
One time while on a retreat, I entered the the small giftshop, noticed an elderly lady behind the counter, and saw a group of Dominican Sister sma;; ‘statues’ which had a desk blackboards and pointers… I looked and stared I turned to the women and said, “oooh that’s scary” as She smiled, i realized she was a nun. I apologized but none the less it was done!

Ever see the Blues Brothers? When the Nun wacks Dan Aykrod with the pointer, that’s my idea and a lot of Catholics idea of correction… Hit first ask questions later. No wonder we don’t like it!

If there is a list, don’t take part in it??

Do you mean no one is allowed to rebuke the rebuker?

Funny: If I say that I don’t like something, I’m judgemental. But if someone says that I’m wrong for my thoughts, should be ashamed, and I’m “sorely mistaken”, that is now judgmental.

If someone is dressed inappropriately, and we focus on that, then it becomes ‘Our Problem’ why go there? Jesus didn’t, he would tell a parable, and leave the person asking themselves Is he speaking of me?

There’s that guy in the mirror, you know

Good point, biblically the guy in the mirrror looks upon his reflection, walks away forgetting what he looked like and has to return again and again.

Why can’t we keep in our hearts and minds that we were (In my Case) bad catholics) who now in mid-life working on our mistakes of the past and future, and remember once we were just like those mis-dressed. misinformed Catholics in the pew next to us.

oh yea, thak Soldier, the ushers!!! let them do it they feel the need, or call too!

Oh yea the nuns with their clickers! I’ve seem guys slapped around because the Nun thought they did something!!

I’m not anti Nun, but that’s what they did to wise-guys back in the day, and that’s how it was done, if you went home and told Dad or Mom, the nun swatted me today, well they swatted you some more because YOU MUST have done something!!

God bless,
John

 

[Apryl]

But where did Sojo say she ever had her skirt stuck in her pantyhose? There’s a big difference between his/her situation and a social faux pas.

And who decides who is erring in their way? You? Are you the one who walks up to people and tells them they are doing wrong? Do you have a list and if someone is doing something on that list in your opinion, do you walk up to them and tell them they are wrong? If you did that to me I would laugh my head off. It’s not your call.

Sojo said her family is financially strapped and there is a disabled son with special needs. I am disabled and on a limited fixed income. I doubt very much that either Sojo’s family or myself are going to go the parties dressed more nicely than the way we dress for church. It almost sounds as though you are saying Sojo is too lazy to dress “correctly” for Mass. It’s not your call.

If you walked up to a person that you had decided was doing wrong, and “charitably” told that person he/she was doing wrong I guess you would need to interview them about their finances, health, SES, etc. It’s not your call.

Oh. I guess you weren’t on the thread where I was told I should cover my knees, elbows, and most of my neck - otherwise I was being immodest and immoral and was guilty of leading men into sin. Shorts, any types of shorts, were wrong absolutely everywhere as were jeans and short-sleeved shirts, and (gasp!) sleeveless shirts. I was even told that if I didn’t wear the “proper” clothes and went to Confession I could cause lustful thoughts in the priest’s mind and I would then be guilty for leading him into sin.

BTW, most of this was from a woman. There are an awful lot of Catholics around who think they can write the rules for what is appropriate and if one is not appropriate, then there is trouble. It’s not your call.

Do you only “gently correct” when someone asks you a question? Or do you “gently correct” when you see something that you think is inappropriate? I would appreciate that if my skirt were caught in my pantyhose or if my fly were down or if my nose had something sticking out of it. But if it comes to someone bringing a disabled son to Mass, or wearing dingy clothing, or not being able to make it to Mass every Sunday, or not knowing why that candle is there, it is not your call.

I see no self-righteouness in Sojo. I see it in a lot of other places. Is the part of your charitable, compassionate communication of what is inappropriate? I see it as hurtful and mean.

The list is not dogma and the OP did not present it as dogma. It is one person’s opinion. It is a means to start a discussion. It’s not your call.

I missed this.

Sojo is not showing judgment IMHO. Sojo is showing anger and hurt; emotions she has every right to feel. And that is because it is not your call and it isn’t anyone else’s call except for God, Sojo, and Sojo’s priest.

Why do I have an image of someone sitting in front of their keyboard with flames coming from their ears and their teeth bared as they type?

You seem to be upset. Rest assured: if you are upset, it is not because of me!

Take a minute, and re-read the post.

Where did I ever say that Sojo said anything about pantyhose?

Hnn??

(Now, you can have a visual of me with my brows furrowed and my head shaking) :dts:

As for who decides who is erring and not erring: THE CHURCH has decided. There is church etiquette. There is decorum that is appropriate for the church. There are customs and norms of society.

If it is impolite for me to visit a friend and put my feet on his coffee table, or to spit sunflower seed shells on the floor, this at the home of a personal friend, what would make it ok in the church?

If there is behavior that is acceptable and considered respectful in normal society, that would make it at least a minimum for church.

And no, I do not go any where with any such list. No one suggested that any one did. Why on earth would you even post that, if not to try to be patronizing to me and to any one else who sees the wrongs that are taking places in our Houses of Worship? But since we (that would be me and you) are reading these articles on the internet at our leisure… as our choice. So we can come to the forum, find a group of discussions, and then find this thread. If you don’t want to see that list… Zoweeee! You didn’t have to.

Once you saw the list, Gadzooks, you had the option of not responding or even reading any further.

When you choose to get into this discussion, rest assured that someone will respond and point out the error of your ways.

If you think it’s ok for you to take my words out of context, attempt to put words into my mouth, and make assumptions of my meaning which in no way reflect anything I’ve ever said on these boards and I’m not going to respond, well, you have another ‘think’ coming

 

[John_oxios]

=Nicea325;7008743]Sure.

Catholics are under no obligation to tithe a certain percentage of their income to the Church. The Church does require the following:

Hello Nicea,
Supporting the Church is one thing, but Biblical tithing is a whole other story.

30, catholics who think we tithe!​

First the Israelites gave under the Law, 10% of their income to the Temple, [2] 10% of their crops to the poor, and [3] then left the gleanings 10% for the widows to gather… That’s 30% . I doubt you do that!

So if you use the term ‘tithe’

like the protestants do, understand fully what it means… Catholics take up a Collection, for the Church for the poor, for missionaries and we do it from our hearts, and we receive kudos and indulgences for our selfless sacrifices in heaven, we donate used clothes and other items to the poor,** But we doesn’t tithe**

God bless,
John

 

[UniversalistGuy]

I’m so tired of self-righteous Catholics who believe they are the ones who can decide what is right and what is wrong. Just sitting here thinking…

Are there a lot of self-righteous Catholics in the Catholic Church, in your opinion?

 

[Apryl]

I may have some of the particulars wrong, but basically that is what happened. She told me that ushers are trained to do more than just seat people. They are there to help in case something goes wrong.

I’m curious as to how much power ushers have. Do you know? Thanks!

Wow! Amazing

I heard a few years ago about a Deacon reading the Gospel and when he sat, he died.

I think the person you are talking about is very lucky if their ushers are trained. I have been in many churches, in many states, and I don’t believe the ushers are trained.

I was in one church, when it was time for Communion, the usher was trying to get the people to get into line. One of the people said, ‘But I’m not Catholic’, and the usher responded, ‘Oh, that’s ok’, smiled and waved the person up to Communion.

I was in another church and the ushers were standing in the back of the church talking, chewing gum, and just enjoying themselves during the Communion portion.

I have asked at my own church, ‘who trains the ushers?’, but so many of the people who choose to be ushers don’t want to ‘say anything’ to any one.

As a person who has been to Protestant churches and seen ushers who USHER, I’m kind of disappointed with the ‘ushering’ that takes place in Catholic churches.

Why do we allow people to come into church whenever they arrive? Why not ask the people who come late to not go to a seat during a prayer, or not to go to their seats during the Reading of the Gospel? These things don’t take that long. If people were discouraged from arriving late, maybe they’ll make a bit more effort to come on time.

If they don’t make effort to come on time, they may be ok with standing at the door or in the vestibule until those times end.

I don’t know that the ushers have ‘power’, but they should help with decorum.

(Side note: if the Host had already been consecrated, there was no need for another priest to come to distribute Communion. I don’t see the point of locking the doors. No one’s safety was in question. )

 

[Miserys_Fence]

I am pretty sure Jesus wore sandals and a dress, I mean robe. Kinda like what our Priests wear. Oh shoot, our priest does wear sandals too. We are not on the beach but we are in the Keys and he should be reprimanded. In fact I don’t think any shoes are good enough since everybody has their own preferences and nobody can be correct. He should come barefooted and naked after all those are the clothes God made for him and truly must be the only acceptable suite to be worn in his presence. He would then not offend anybody, well except those people that don’t like feet or nudity. Then again he is pretty old and has a pot belly so that might be kinda ugly. What a terrible image…

Then again maybe it is more important to be less judgmental? However it seems to be a lot of fun to judge others, after all didn’t our Lord tell everybody to throw rocks at that woman? He did tell them to throw stones as I recall, although he had a small requirement they had to meet prior to casting, but nevertheless he did have a call for judging and punishment. People seem to like to categorize and judge others, after all it is so much fun. I have to admit I often judge others, but I am not to good at it I keep tripping over my own inadequacies and usually I end up with my face in the dirt.

I wonder if we should study and promote the differences or focus more on the adoration of our Lord? I guess for some people that have children that are Attention Deficit Disordered they should stay home, or those with a mental disorder that are loud. We do have a cry room so maybe they can go there, then again I can still hear the crying of the babies even behind the glass so they should stay at home too. We could turn the cry room into a sitting room for old people, we don’t need children any way as they don’t contribute anything to the church and we could save a lot of money not having to pay for all the books and stuff. In fact we could spend more time in a very silent church praying in adoration.

We have a disabled man in his 50’s that takes a LONG time to be guided by his 70+ year old parents up for communion. He is such a distraction. He often stumbles and at times brushes up next to people sitting in the aisle. He should stay at home too. In fact his parents have some nerve bringing him at all. At their age they should know by now that these distractions are just not needed or desired. All these distractions from all these people, just like all the distractions in your list. They should get the point and leave him at home. You know we could make cubicles and then we would not have to worry about this. We could also just put a camera up and stay at home on our computers. They could mail us the species, shoot that won’t work, but it was a good idea we would not have to be with anybody else. We could be all alone with our God.

We have a single mother with 3 young children, she cannot control all three of them. She should stay home too. They obviously don’t need to be at Mass distracting others that are fervently praying. Honestly we don’t have many children at Mass anymore, why do they need to come at all anyway? It is not like we have a lot of kids they can play with anyway.

What were the criteria that Christ used for inclusion of people? I am pretty sure we could make a list of all the good people that he allowed in his presence, those that don’t fit in that group should just not come. I wonder what that list would look like? I am confident that the list would be full of just beautiful people, well behaved, highly educated, groomed and dressed to the hilt. We need people at church that look and behave like they are religious and like they should be there. After all we have people that are watching and we need to send a signal. We have standards and this list should be the most important requirement for attending mass. Image after all is everything. Nike says that so it must be true…They make a LOT of money and know what they are talking about.

Well enough of my agreeing with the OP.

Seriously, I think the heart is far more important. Love… The love of those 3 kids, and the older couple bringing their son every Sunday. Our Priest in his sandals and the joy of listening to the laughter of children, and parents correcting them are all part of a healthy church. I love it and hope I hear more. We don’t have enough children and if that requires wearing shorts and t-shirts so that a family can be increased by 3 or 4 kids then I am ALL for it. We have enough exclusions in our society. I want inclusion. I want them to come to Mass. I don’t want to judge, let God do that, I just want to worship and sing together, even if my voice is terrible, it is what I can offer.

Miz

 

[Apryl]

First the Israelites gave under the Law, 10% of their income to the Temple, [2] 10% of their crops to the poor, and [3] then left the gleanings 10% for the widows to gather… That’s 30% . I doubt you do that!

So if you use the term ‘tithe’

like the protestants do, understand fully what it means… Catholics take up a Collection, for the Church for the poor, for missionaries and we do it from our hearts, and we receive kudos and indulgences for our selfless sacrifices in heaven, we donate used clothes and other items to the poor,** But we doesn’t tithe**

Who said that Catholics don’t tithe? No, the Church doesn’t ASK for us to do so in those terms, but we are asked to contribute. Scripture, which we know is open to interpretation… but the definitive interpretationis reserved for the Church.

Still, tithing is giving the first 10% of what you have The FIRST of what you have. Not the left overs.

Hopefully, we all know someone who gives more than 10% (if you add up time, talent and treasure, there are sure to be more than just a few who fit this description)

 

[Apryl]

Maybe you are receiving few solutions to what bugs you because your list doesn’t bother the rest of us half as much as it does you. I don’t think most of the posters in this thread are doing the stuff on your list that irritates you. As for me, I can’t understand why you wasted the energy even posting such a list.

But if you can’t understand why, does that mean the list should not exist?

 

[LittleSoldier]

Why do I have an image of someone sitting in front of their keyboard with flames coming from their ears and their teeth bared as they type?

I don’t know why you have that image. Actually I’m not even sitting anymore. I’m lying down on my bed in extreme pain from a back injury and I’m not angry at all. Not a bit. I’m groggy from the pain meds and I’m very calm. Oh, my mouth is closed.

You seem to be upset. Rest assured: if you are upset, it is not because of me!

I’m not upset. I hurt. I don’t have room for upset right now. And if I were upset it would not be because of you - you are correct. It would be because of me.

Take a minute, and re-read the post.

I don’t want to (that was the first sentence I ever said). OK, I’ll read it right now.
tick tock…
tick tock…
OK I read it again. I did misread part of it. Sorry. Of course there are things that I believe would be inappropriate. Those roller shoes especially (although I have a pair). But don’t the ushers at your church stop that sort of behavior? From what little I’ve heard I think they are supposed to. I guess I will admit that I would be upset and would probably say something to an usher. Those shoes could ruin a floor. Has that happened in your church? Nobody wearing a thong or roller shoes (or whatever they’re called) would be allowed into the main part of the church. Maybe it would be easier at my church because the outer part is very big and so people would be caught before they entered the main part of the church (you should see our holy water font - it’s actually a beautiful fountain someone donated. It’s gorgeous!)

Where did I ever say that Sojo said anything about pantyhose?

You responded to a post by Sojo by bringing up the skirt caught in the pantyhose whereas Sojo never said anything remotely like that. I was trying to point out the immense difference between a social faux pas and a serious breach of respect to God.

Hnn??

(Now, you can have a visual of me with my brows furrowed and my head shaking) :dts:

No, I think you are very calm although possibly laughing and I don’t mean that in a pejorative way.

As for who decides who is erring and not erring: THE CHURCH has decided. There is church etiquette. There is decorum that is appropriate for the church. There are customs and norms of society.

Are you the Church? No. You are part of the Church. It. is. not. your. call.

If it is impolite for me to visit a friend and put my feet on his coffee table, or to spit sunflower seed shells on the floor, this at the home of a personal friend, what would make it ok in the church?

Well as far as I know no church has a coffee table; at least I’ve never seen one and if one is eating sunflower seeds (how did you know I was an X-File fan?) and spitting the seeds out onto the floor (which I don’t believe Mulder ever does), that person has broken his/her fast and can’t receive Communion. But unless the person is spitting out sunflower seed shells in your pew or is in the pew behind you and is accidentally (or purposely) hitting you with the shells, why would you even notice? When you go to Mass don’t you go to Mass? Or do you go to see what others are doing? Hmmm, I wonder if you have one of those clickers. Nah, probably not. I think you are probably pious and holy and honestly care about respect to God. As do I.

If there is behavior that is acceptable and considered respectful in normal society, that would make it at least a minimum for church.

I gotta think about this for awhile.

And no, I do not go any where with any such list. No one suggested that any one did. Why on earth would you even post that, if not to try to be patronizing to me and to any one else who sees the wrongs that are taking places in our Houses of Worship? But since we (that would be me and you) are reading these articles on the internet at our leisure… as our choice. So we can come to the forum, find a group of discussions, and then find this thread. If you don’t want to see that list… Zoweeee! You didn’t have to.

That is why I asked you if you had a list!! No, I’m not trying to be patronizing to anyone and you are misreading me. I’m frustrated and I’m in a heck of a lot of pain right now and I’m referring to the fact that the OP has a list so maybe you might have one too. See?

Once you saw the list, Gadzooks, you had the option of not responding or even reading any further.

That is true. And I responded. Is there a problem with that? I thought this was a discussion. So I’m discussing.

When you choose to get into this discussion, rest assured that someone will respond and point out the error of your ways.

Yup and it goes both ways.

If you think it’s ok for you to take my words out of context, attempt to put words into my mouth, and make assumptions of my meaning which in no way reflect anything I’ve ever said on these boards and I’m not going to respond, well, you have another ‘think’ coming

Hey, you’re the one who stated that I made comments about single parent families and I never did. Talk about putting words in one’s mouth! As for context, I tried to keep your words in context. If I failed I apologize.

Go ahead, respond. I hope you do respond. This is a form of communication and if I am not understanding what you are saying (and vice versa) we are not communicating. If I’m making assumptions it’s because I don’t understand why you are trying to say.

But I still say it is not your call and it’s not my call, either, and when or if we go to Mass we should attend to God, not other members of the congregation.

You know, I like you. I sure don’t know why but I do. Weird.

 

[LittleSoldier]

But if you can’t understand why, does that mean the list should not exist?

Is this like if a tree falls in a forest and nobody is there does the falling tree make a noise?

 

[Apryl]

i can’t go often because of my health. so i guess number one fits me. why am I catholic? because i believe with all my heart.

I sure hope you posted this in an effort to be funny.

But in case you are not: the Church has precepts of being a Catholic. That is, a list of things that are expected of them.

The first on that list is usually the attendance at Mass.

But wait: If a person is not in good health, or has something that could be contracted by others, that person should remain at home. PLEASE STAY HOME IF YOU ARE SICK!

If your health is poor, the only thing I would ask of is that you contact your parish for those times for someone of the church to bring you Communion so that you can at least have that privilege.