What I saw today at Mass

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It’s been my experience that even if they do say the word “sin” they follow it up by explaining that “sin” comes from archery and means accidentally missing the target. So sin doesn’t sound so bad. 🤷

But I get your point that the proper words are supposed to be used.
 
Phemie said:
  • No altar servers
  • Penitential Rite omitted and straight to the Kyrie (no, there was no reason for it)
  • Gloria omitted and straight to the Collect
  • Homily omitted because he’d been “too busy to look at the readings” (but we did get a story about how he’d escaped getting a speeding ticket but had been given one for passing in a no passing zone, “Poor me, I have to spend $120”)
  • Creed omitted and straight to the Intercessions
  • Woman in shorts preparing the altar at the Offertory
  • Laughs with the woman during the Prayers over the Offerings
  • Genuflections omitted during the Consecration and before Communion
I’m so fed up with this kind of stuff.😦
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Contact the Office of Worship or the Bishop’s Office at your local Diocese to address these abuses.
 
Irishgal49 said:
That’s what I’m thinking. I’d stay up late the night before and at least write a 5 minute commentary. Any priest whose been to seminary should be able to comment a few minutes on at least one of the readings. I mean, come on. You KNOW this stuff already right? It sounds like someone has a casual attitude about their vocation.
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Heck, with 5 minutes of thought, many of us in the pews could probably create a one minute “homily,” even if you just focused on one thing in each reading. This is just sheer lazyness.
 
Phemie said:
Per his habit, he didn’t use any of options A, B or C, he went directly to the Kyrie.
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That is option C though (a bit of a butchered option C if there’s no invocations or absolution).
agw123 said:
This is generally standard practice when the Tabernacle is not in main Sanctuary. My Church is like this where the Tabernacle is in a chapel behind the Sanctuary and out of view. One of the EMHCs or a Sacristan will retrieve the Ciborium and return it later as the Priest or Deacon is purifying the chalices.

Since the celebrant is not generally supposed to leave during the Mass, there’s no other choice other than to have someone get it.
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That’s a stickily situation that you can’t rubrically win. The priest is not suppose to leave the sanctuary, but the priest is suppose to get the Tabernacle (and it is a licit practice to have the Tabernacle in a separate chapel. It’s a Benedictine tradition).
Phemie said:
I don’t know about **Deo Gratias42’s **parish, but in mine the Tabernacle is in the center of the sanctuary, about 10 feet behind the altar.
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Ok, the priest should clearly be getting the ciborium in that case.
Phemie said:
Interestingly enough, in one diocese in Canada the Bishop has ordered the EMHCs to purify the vessels, in defiance of the GIRM. His reason: “He/she who can do the greater can do the lesser.”
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That reasoning doesn’t make any sense. What is the “greater” that they are doing that justifies purifying? It also doesn’t justify breaking a rule that says “You shan’t do this”.
Phemie said:
He has also ordered that the Lectionary be carried in procession because Canada has no Book of Gospels.
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Interesting, are you sure? We use Book of Gospels here on Sundays (this might have just started with the new translation, I can’t really remember. Quite a few things got changed for the better actually. I love our bishop :cool:).

But I have seen that the readings are on printer paper and clipped into the book, so I wonder if it is an old edition (Jerusalem Bible? Or a previous NRSV-CE?) or the American edition (RNAB) with our readings (NRSV-CE) put in.
 
YoungTradCath said:
I am not sure such a practice can pass licitly for option C.
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No, option C has invocations. It’s as though he’s recited the Confiteor in his head then just jumped to the Kyrie.

He keeps telling us that in his other parishes he doesn’t use English so doesn’t have to worry about the new translation, which he’s made sure we know he thinks is silly. He’s the same guy who upon hearing the information given to the parish about the new translation and the instructions of the GIRM was quick to point out that 'Those are just suggestions." :rolleyes:
 
Ooo, not good. A priest should keep opinions like that to himself. Besides, it’s not silly. The new English translation is much closer to the Latin. For example, “Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof” suggests that you body is a temple. “Lord I am not worthy to receive you” is okay, but not nearly as good.
 
Phemie said:
No, option C has invocations. It’s as though he’s recited the Confiteor in his head then just jumped to the Kyrie.

He keeps telling us that in his other parishes he doesn’t use English so doesn’t have to worry about the new translation, which he’s made sure we know he thinks is silly. He’s the same guy who upon hearing the information given to the parish about the new translation and the instructions of the GIRM was quick to point out that 'Those are just suggestions." :rolleyes:
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I hate to say it, but what a nut.
 
curlycool89 said:
That reasoning doesn’t make any sense. What is the “greater” that they are doing that justifies purifying? It also doesn’t justify breaking a rule that says “You shan’t do this”.
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His rationale is that if they can give out Communion (the greater) they can purify the vessels (the lesser).
Interesting, are you sure? We use Book of Gospels here on Sundays (this might have just started with the new translation, I can’t really remember. Quite a few things got changed for the better actually. I love our bishop :cool:).
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But I have seen that the readings are on printer paper and clipped into the book, so I wonder if it is an old edition (Jerusalem Bible? Or a previous NRSV-CE?) or the American edition (RNAB) with our readings (NRSV-CE) put in.
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Canada had been short 2 Scriptures books for 2 decades. Now we’re short 4 in the new translation.

When the CCCB opted to start using the NRSV translation (based on the US having been given permission to use it) they had time to publish the Lectionary for Sundays and Feasts and Lectionary for Weekdays A & B before the Vatican pulled the plug and forbid the use of the NRSV translation for Liturgy. At that point we were still short a Lectionary for the Sacraments and a Book of Gospels.

Rome gave the CCCB 5 years to get a new translation. Well, 17 years later, we got the “revised” NRSV Sunday Lectionary. Now we are waiting for the next 4 books.

I don’t know if we ever had a Book of Gospels in the Jerusalem Bible translation. I held a gorgeous Book of Gospels at St. Paul University several years ago. Gold leather cover, beautiful illustrations, gilt-edged pages, etc. It was used in procession but, like yours, it had the Canadian translation inserted as a photocopied sheet so it must have been an American product.
 
YoungTradCath said:
I am not sure such a practice can pass licitly for option C.
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No, I wouldn’t call it licit either, but you could say it at least appears as a penitential rite (an illicitly modified rite as opposed to an omitted rite, but that’s splitting hairs I guess).
 
Phemie said:
I don’t know if we ever had a Book of Gospels in the Jerusalem Bible translation. I held a gorgeous Book of Gospels at St. Paul University several years ago. Gold leather cover, beautiful illustrations, gilt-edged pages, etc. It was used in procession but, like yours, it had the Canadian translation inserted as a photocopied sheet so it must have been an American product.
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Heck, that even sounds like one we use (for occasions when the Bishop is celebrating).

sigh Why can’t the CCCB and the Vatican get together on the Lectionary already? This isn’t rocket science.
 
I too am fed up with this stuff, at my parish during First Communion mass, the children where standing all around the alter during consencration and many of them were acting up and I herd people behind me talking about how they wanted the “cracker”…God help us.
 
Phemie said:
  • No altar servers
  • Penitential Rite omitted and straight to the Kyrie (no, there was no reason for it)
  • Gloria omitted and straight to the Collect
  • Homily omitted because he’d been “too busy to look at the readings” (but we did get a story about how he’d escaped getting a speeding ticket but had been given one for passing in a no passing zone, “Poor me, I have to spend $120”)
  • Creed omitted and straight to the Intercessions
  • Woman in shorts preparing the altar at the Offertory
  • Laughs with the woman during the Prayers over the Offerings
  • Genuflections omitted during the Consecration and before Communion
I’m so fed up with this kind of stuff.😦
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:tsktsk::dts::bigyikes::nope: All I can say about this
 
Phemie said:
  • No altar servers
  • Penitential Rite omitted and straight to the Kyrie (no, there was no reason for it)
  • Gloria omitted and straight to the Collect
  • Homily omitted because he’d been “too busy to look at the readings” (but we did get a story about how he’d escaped getting a speeding ticket but had been given one for passing in a no passing zone, “Poor me, I have to spend $120”)
  • Creed omitted and straight to the Intercessions
  • Woman in shorts preparing the altar at the Offertory
  • Laughs with the woman during the Prayers over the Offerings
  • Genuflections omitted during the Consecration and before Communion
I’m so fed up with this kind of stuff.😦
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So am I. You have my sympathy. 😦
 
curlycool89 said:
That is option C though (a bit of a butchered option C if there’s no invocations or absolution).
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To Phemie and all the others concerned with the Kyrie…It’s been stated in several posts that it’s OK to go right to the Kyrie, and that’s true. (The Confiteor is only one of 3 options.)

I’ve looked in the GIRM, and according to paragraph 52, the phrases before the words "Lord have mercy… " are only required if the whole thing is sung:

“When the Kyrie is sung as a part of the Penitential Act, a ‘trope’ precedes each acclamation.”

So I think the priest is OK on that item.
 
surritter said:
To Phemie and all the others concerned with the Kyrie…It’s been stated in several posts that it’s OK to go right to the Kyrie, and that’s true. (The Confiteor is only one of 3 options.)

I’ve looked in the GIRM, and according to paragraph 52, the phrases before the words "Lord have mercy… " are only required if the whole thing is sung:

“When the Kyrie is sung as a part of the Penitential Act, a ‘trope’ precedes each acclamation.”

So I think the priest is OK on that item.
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No, you have to read all of 52.
  1. After the Penitential Act, the Kyrie, eleison (Lord, have mercy), is always begun, unless it has already been part of the Penitential Act. Since it is a chant by which the faithful acclaim the Lord and implore his mercy, it is usually executed by everyone, that is to say, with the people and the choir or cantor taking part in it.
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Each acclamation is usually pronounced twice, though it is not to be excluded that
it be repeated several times, by reason of the character of the various languages, as well as of the artistry of the music or of other circumstances. When the Kyrie is sung as a part of the Penitential Act, a “trope” precedes each acclamation.
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The Kyrie without tropes is only used if we’ve said the Confiteor, Option A. If we’ve used Options B or C, the Kyrie is not repeated.

In our case the Penitential Act is omitted entirely and we go right to the Kyrie.
 
Phemie said:
No, you have to read all of 52.
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I see. Since the Kyrie has two methods of being used, my statement about no tropes only applies in the Kyrie used after the Penitential Rite, not the Kyrie used within it.
Phemie said:
The Kyrie without tropes is only used if we’ve said the Confiteor, Option A. If we’ve used Options B or C, the Kyrie is not repeated.
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Small thing: The Kyrie is still to be done even if Option B is used.
 
surritter said:
Small thing: The Kyrie is still to be done even if Option B is used.
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I still can’t say that I understand the existence of option B. It’s like they wanted to have a “short” option for the penitential rite, but so you can still do the Kyrie separately.

Consequently, almost everyone either uses A or C. Personally, I think you could really just cut it to A, it’s not even a minute difference in time so there’s no real reason to not use A.
 
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