What I should know about SSPX, the Tridentine Rite, etc

[TrueLight]

Hi. I strongly suggest for you to check out the following website and youtube channel which should answer most if not all of your questions on this topic. Their section on the SSPX can be found on the main webpage, under the “Traditional Catholic Issues and Groups” section.

mostholyfamilymonastery.com/ youtube.com/user/mhfm1

Umm yeah.

That site considers the OF mass to be invalid and Blessed John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI to be antipopes.

 

[MillTownCath]

Greater Reverence
A unifying language (Latin)
No innovations
The keeps with Catholic tradition
teachings from the saints instead of whats happening in sports
Readings from that do not come from a politically correct bible.
Women are not on the altar showing their wares to the congregation

just off the top of my head

Hmm. I have personally never seen anything like at a NO Mass.
I guess what has turned me off is the way I have seen and read how the SSPX talk about Jews. I think that I have fundamentally different views and values than what I think the pre-VII church had in mind. What many see as defending God’s Church, I would see as anti-semitism.

 

[laszlo]

Greater Reverence
A unifying language (Latin)
No innovations
The keeps with Catholic tradition
teachings from the saints instead of whats happening in sports
Readings from that do not come from a politically correct bible.
Women are not on the altar showing their wares to the congregation

just off the top of my head

These are the characteristics substrate from the TLMs of our time.

In itself outside of the required Latin (which in turn prevents full understanding, not only with the mind but also with the heart and kidneys yoo) would prevent

• innovations
• women around the altar.

The TLM prevents the pre Trident tradition, especially the one time frequent processes and e.g. the rite of peace. As for the rubrics the TLM does not requires to read the bible in vernacular and/or audible to the people at all.

You shall study about the chaos of the liturgy before 1970 about what Joseph Ratzinger our pope wrote that he embraced the 1970 new form, hoping that at least will be order in the Liturgy.

Try to see the thing with the eyes of those, who made the reform. They were not evil people, and the problem is not with the new form, but with the disobedience to the form.

 

[Thomas_Casey]

Anyone posting links to and encouraging Catholics to read information on sedevacantism or posts that offend the Church will be banned without notice. If you have questions, please ask via PM.

 

[ProVobis]

In itself outside of the required Latin (which in turn prevents full understanding, not only with the mind but also with the heart and kidneys yoo) would prevent

The local vernacular in toto has not been proven to stimulate any extra interest or better understanding with the mind or the heart. On the contrary, a nationalized Mass (of either form) is what prevents the full understanding of a universal Catholic worship. It matters not (such as in that video) whether the priest speaks French, English, or neither.

 

[wsxyz]

Hmm. I have personally never seen anything like at a NO Mass.
I guess what has turned me off is the way I have seen and read how the SSPX talk about Jews. I think that I have fundamentally different views and values than what I think the pre-VII church had in mind. What many see as defending God’s Church, I would see as anti-semitism.

It’s difficult to respond to you without some more specifics about what you object to.

It is pretty important to distinguish the official statements of the SSPX as a society from the opinions of persons who frequent SSPX chapels.

Also, the SSPX is by no means the be-all and end-all of traditional Catholicism, although their supporters often see them that way.

Lastly, as I have already suggested, if there are any traditional societies (FSSP, SSPX, ICKSP, etc.) in your area, go talk to a priest and see what he says.

 

[wsxyz]

In itself outside of the required Latin would prevent

• innovations
• women around the altar.

Thanks be to God that these things are prevented in the traditional Mass.

The TLM prevents the pre Trident tradition, especially the one time frequent processes and e.g. the rite of peace.

It’s hard for me to figure out what you are trying to say, apart from that there isn’t any “sign of peace” for the faithful in the traditional Mass. In response, I say: I’m glad there isn’t. If people would give the sign of peace in a dignified manner, then ok, maybe. But the way it usually goes…

As for the rubrics the TLM does not requires to read the bible in vernacular and/or audible to the people at all.

True, but the epistle and Gospel are always read out loud in the vernacular anyway – at least on Sundays and Holy Days.

You shall study about the chaos of the liturgy before 1970 about what Joseph Ratzinger our pope wrote that he embraced the 1970 new form, hoping that at least will be order in the Liturgy.

The liturgical reform, in its concrete realization, has distanced itself even more from its origin. The result has not been a reanimation, but devastation. In place of the liturgy, fruit of a continual development, they have placed a fabricated liturgy. They have deserted a vital process of growth and becoming in order to substitute a fabrication.They did not want to continue the development, the organic maturing of something living through the centuries, and they replaced it, in the manner of technical production, by a fabrication, a banal product of the moment.
(Cardinal Ratzinger - Revue Theologisches, Vol. 20, Feb. 1990, pgs. 103-104)

 

[ChillyGuess]

Guys, I’m debating whether I should continue going… My recent 1st and 2nd Latin Mass is under this society. It’s held at someone’s house / garage, but the priest is definitely St Pius X society. I love the Latin Mass, it’s so much more reverent, yet the Cathedral here doesn’t do it on Sundays.

 

[Stylites]

Are Catholics allowed to visit SSPX parishes and is their communion valid? Can you fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending an SSPX mass?

Their Mass is valid, but illicit. Their Sacrament of Reconciliation is invalid.

 

[Will_S]

Guys, I’m debating whether I should continue going… My recent 1st and 2nd Latin Mass is under this society. It’s held at someone’s house / garage, but the priest is definitely St Pius X society. I love the Latin Mass, it’s so much more reverent, yet the Cathedral here doesn’t do it on Sundays.

Celebrating The Traditional Mass in someone’s garage seems so 1970s-1980s. It’s surprising to me, post Summorum Pontificum, that this is still necessary.

Are you sure there aren’t any other options for a Traditional Latin Mass in your area?

 

[InquisitorMax]

Vatican II was the XXI ecumenical council, which defined 3 dogmatic , one pastoral constitutions , 9 decrees and three declarations

Could you tell us what these were or point to a website? Thanks.

 

[Planty_Pall]

Celebrating The Traditional Mass in someone’s garage seems so 1970s-1980s. It’s surprising to me, post Summorum Pontificum, that this is still necessary.

Are you sure there aren’t any other options for a Traditional Latin Mass in your area?

I am surprised too. I agree, it is 70’s and 80’s. In fact, I am not quite convinced. Not in America.

The Society provides lists of every available public Mass which their priests celebrate in the United States. They include phone numbers and addresses. I could be wrong, but I thought they were out of the hotels and houses. Nowadays, they don’t ordinarily use priestly resources to regularly say public Masses in such limited venues. It is not usually difficult to find locations more desirable than a garage. They could never get any sizable community going.

I know of one “parish” where a large sized barn had been with devotion and ingenuity converted into a chapel that was attended by over a 100 of the faithful every week for several years. But it was decided that it was imprudent to continue there, in part I am sure, because it simply wasn’t a church building, and to accomodate growth, the Catholic faithul rightly desire a church. It was good while it lasted, but those times are past. But it was surely better than any garage could be in a house! It would seem strange if the SSPX is holding regularly scheduled public “garage Masses” in light of what appears to be common policy. Maybe this was a private Mass, say with friends or family on a weekday and not a regularly scheduled public Mass? It seems possible to me that this was an independent priest whose sympathy for the Society was mistaken for affiliation?

PP

 

[ChillyGuess]

Well the person running it has been doing so for 20 or so years. But the priest is quite youngish. I should mention this is in New Zealand, where Traditional Latin Mass is quite few and far in between. A Catholic friend told me that NZ Catholics are quite liberal. The ‘norm’ for us is the Missal, which for me gets really diluted in reverence at times, especially the singing. Urgh, we sing Hillsongs music… which made me think, why don’t we at least get the singing right.

 

[laszlo]

The local vernacular in toto has not been proven to stimulate any extra interest or better understanding with the mind or the heart. On the contrary, a nationalized Mass (of either form) is what prevents the full understanding of a universal Catholic worship. It matters not (such as in that video) whether the priest speaks French, English, or neither.

Personally my wife was attracted to convert to Catholic by the Roman Canon read in the Mass in English. She (like some 30% of the people has primarily auditory reception), and the inaudible Latin has no effect on her. Remember what you said on the one fir all

Statistically Africa is the the fastest growing segment of our faith, and ther masses are continentalized, accommodate to their culture, instead of forcing the dieing Western culture on them. We may be proud that this was our culture, but we had to understand that this is the Past, lifeless.

 

[Denise1957]

I could be wrong, but as our society exists now, the use of the vernacular for the Mass may be the best way to attract people to the faith. It takes a lot of effort to use an English/Latin missel for the TLM, here in the U.S. Our ability to focus on something difficult, without seeing the need for it, is a bit impaired in our fast-moving society today, where most people live in big cities and live a fast-paced life. In other words, we don’t have very long attention spans these days.

If we contrast this with, say, how people were converted to the faith in the past few centuries, the Mass having been said in Latin did not seem to be an impediment. I may be wrong, but I don’t think it was the Mass itself which was expected to be the main instrument of conversion, as it seems to be now. Take, for example, the Native Americans who were converted to the faith. Not only was the Mass in Latin, but they had difficulty with the language used by the priests who tried to teach them the faith. It was the priest who ususally had to learn a bit of the native language, so they could instruct the catechumen in the basics of the faith. One of my favorite Blesseds is Bl. Catherine Tekakwitha. She never saw a Mass in anything other than Latin, and I don’t believe she could even read or write in any language. Yet she had a profound grasp of the faith anyway. Human nature doesn’t really change, but our behavior or perceptions tend to change, or rather, adapt, to meet and conform with Societal expectations, which is different now than in the past few centuries, with the rise of the industrial age (an no, I wouldn’t society to want to return to a pre-industrial mode of living).

So while I think that the use of the vernacular is probably a good thing now, I’m grateful that there are more Latin Masses being offered now for those of us who prefer it.

 

[Planty_Pall]

Well the person running it has been doing so for 20 or so years. But the priest is quite youngish. I should mention this is in New Zealand, where Traditional Latin Mass is quite few and far in between. A Catholic friend told me that NZ Catholics are quite liberal. The ‘norm’ for us is the Missal, which for me gets really diluted in reverence at times, especially the singing. Urgh, we sing Hillsongs music… which made me think, why don’t we at least get the singing right.

Hey Chilly Guess…I think I found you. There appears to be a 2 PM Sunday Mass at a house address in one town in New Zealand. The rest of the scheduled Masses are in chapels except for one held in a funeral home.

I think I responded because I was talking to an American priest just yesterday, expressing how it seems to me like we are emerging from a.long dark tunnel in comparison to the “hotel years”. I explained that it would seem discouraging to me. This was a young priest to me. Maybe 40 or 45. But he had a different view of how it was in his family in the 80’s. It wasn’t discouraging at all to set up and tear down every week. You just did it and they were enthused to be there at all. I am very thankful for the good “hotel/garage Catholics” who kept the Traditional Mass alive long enough for it to take a firm root again here in the U.S. I wasn’t even Catholic in those years. I did not mean to be disparaging if that is the situation in which you find yourself in New Zealand.

Keep the faith.

PP

 

[MissRose73]

I would check with your local diocesan website to find out where you can attend the EF Mass and participate in the sacraments offered.

I have done so, and they have given me plenty of detail of places I can go vs those to avoid that are not in Communion with Rome.