What if a Catholic sincerely believes that the Catholic Church is wrong about Masturbation?

[daeve]

One of the nice things about being Catholic is that the Church has kindly defined a lot of things for us. The Church tells us – your own citation, for example – that certain things are not God’s will. If you want to be a Catholic, you need to accept those things whether you like them or not.

I can understand what you’re saying. I’ve had to struggle with a couple things that bother me (for lack of a better term), but at one point I told myself to fish or cut bait. That’s pretty corny, isn’t it, but what I mean is I accepted the Church’s teaching on those things. I decided that God’s will and being a member of Christ’s own Church was more important than those things.

 

[chain]

I believe that we are obligated to follow church teaching even if we do not agree with it. I know I also have issue, not so much with a teaching - but with applying it to me But, but, but… I had a very bad case of moral relativism when I was younger - was a catholic who did not listen to Rome.

I would suggest prayer and research. There are plenty of church documents that explain the teaching, and as you become more educated on the underlying principals you will more often than not end up agreeing with the church. The church has 2000 years of studying its teaching - you have a few years of wishing it was your way. Personally I think most of the problems with moral relativism come from week catechesis - teaching rules without any underlying theology.

 

[Bataar]

Personally, I accept that it is a serious sin because I believe the church has the authority to do so. However, I don’t buy the logic they use that justifies it. I view it as an issue of obedience. If the church came out and said that holding ones’ breath for long periods of time was a grave sin because it is using the lungs against their purpose, well, I believe they have that authority too.

 

[chain]

Points of view very - but the truth does not.

If you ask 100 teenage boys if masturbation is a serious sin - at most several will sight the caticism but say they disagree with it. Ask unmarried 20 and 30 something year old men and you will get a few different answers. Ask 100 married men - more than likely quite a few will mention how masturbation when they were younger changed how they viewed sex, and how that twisted perception effected their lives both before and after marriage.

 

[Abbadon]

Oh, hush, devil! ( sorry, but with a name like that, how could I resist?)

Makes perfect sense. God could say “Don’t eat snails” (I think He might have on one occasion) and it’d be perfectly acceptable for us to not eat snails. He’s God. He get’s what He wants.

Oh god oh god please don’t break my legs Don god, I’ll pay the protection money I swear. You god get what you want. Sorry I don’t respect mob bosses and I never pay security, in whatever form the security might take.

And how exactly is the Church exerting greater control over the masses by pushing forward so unpopular a stance as “Don’t pleasure yourself”? Seems to me they lose more members over such postions than they gain…

In the past you had members regardless, so you could forge all that frustration and unfulfilment and channel it into your armies, especially for men. Now were in the new age it’s not working quite the same way.

 

[Abbadon]

Points of view very - but the truth does not.

If you ask 100 teenage boys if masturbation is a serious sin - at most several will sight the caticism but say they disagree with it. Ask unmarried 20 and 30 something year old men and you will get a few different answers. Ask 100 married men - more than likely quite a few will mention how masturbation when they were younger changed how they viewed sex, and how that twisted perception effected their lives both before and after marriage.

You just so made that up.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Oh god oh god please don’t break my legs Don god, I’ll pay the protection money I swear. You god get what you want. Sorry I don’t respect mob bosses and I never pay security, in whatever form the security might take.

In the past you had members regardless, so you could forge all that frustration and unfulfilment and channel it into your armies, especially for men. Now were in the new age it’s not working quite the same way.

“Don god”? Is that really how you see it?

According to theory, God created the universe and everything in it, humans included. Every single aspect of human nature, therefore, would be known to God and, to a certain extent, God’s own intention. God knows the best use of every human function, including sexuality. A parent knows the best use for a stove: cooking food. A child may be amused by placing various items on the burner, say, a piece of paper, or a finger. However, misuse of the stove could result in grave injury to the child.

God isn’t threatening to put your hand on the stove if you don’t behave; He is warning you that playing with the stove will get you burned.

 

[BobCatholic]

:tsktsk:

[SIGN]God is not a mafia boss[/SIGN]

Just my :twocents: which is one cent after taxes.

 

[Danika]

Please, you must not say God is mean. He is not mean. He has given us all life and sent Jesus as our Savior. He has allowed for us to eat and drink and rest. He has let us have beautiful churches and has heard our prayers. We should all be grateful of that.

God is seeing if you can abstain from temptation. It may be hard, and it takes self control. Think of when you were young, and perhaps, say, you wanted some candy. But then your parents wouldn’t let you have it. Sure, it probably wouldn’t do you any serious harm if you had a piece of hard candy. Just because your parents don’t give it, doesn’t mean they are mean.

Follow His word and please don’t risk hell just for a self-pleasure. Even if you say it is not a deadly sin, it is still a sin nevertheless. We must try our best not to commit sins, and if we do, we must pray for forgiveness. He will judge whether we are really sorry or not. If you purposefully committed a sin, and pray for forgiveness, do you think you will be sincerely apologizing to God? What if you do it again?..God knows your thoughts, and it is best not to break His rules. When we ask for forgiveness, we believe that God is being merciful. He is giving us a second chance.

If you believe the Church is wrong, then I think the best way to settle your thoughts is to pray and ask the priest for guidance. We can all hope that eventually God will show us the right path.

 

[Abbadon]

“Don god”? Is that really how you see it?

According to theory, God created the universe and everything in it, humans included. Every single aspect of human nature, therefore, would be known to God and, to a certain extent, God’s own intention. God knows the best use of every human function, including sexuality. A parent knows the best use for a stove: cooking food. A child may be amused by placing various items on the burner, say, a piece of paper, or a finger. However, misuse of the stove could result in grave injury to the child.

God isn’t threatening to put your hand on the stove if you don’t behave; He is warning you that playing with the stove will get you burned.

I was replying to the specific comment, God gets what he wants.

Yea see the difference with my parents is that at some point they would never judge me and put me in the stove themselves for all eternity. Unless of course there are forces outside of your gods control, forces that determine where we go after we die that are out of your gods control.

No one ever deserves to be tortured forever, No one.

 

[Abbadon]

Follow His word and please don’t risk hell just for a self-pleasure. Even if you say it is not a deadly sin, it is still a sin nevertheless. We must try our best not to commit sins, and if we do, we must pray for forgiveness. He will judge whether we are really sorry or not. If you purposefully committed a sin, and pray for forgiveness, do you think you will be sincerely apologizing to God? What if you do it again?..God knows your thoughts, and it is best not to break His rules. When we ask for forgiveness, we believe that God is being merciful. He is giving us a second chance.

God is judging you and if you masturbate and are not sorry for it and believe in him and ask for his forgiveness for you have offended him (he gets offended pretty easily) god will send you to hell to be tortured forever. Even if this god was real I would not respect him.

God is a mafia boss, he demands your respect and he demands you pay for protection, or else, well he won’t break your legs, instead he’ll send you to a place to be tortured for ever.

Heck I prefer the mafia boss, even the mafia boss can’t threaten me with eternal damnation, not that I respond well to threats.

 

[Dtmccameron]

…

God is a mafia boss, he demands your respect and he demands you pay for protection, or else, well he won’t break your legs, instead he’ll send you to a place to be tortured for ever.

…

There’s no worldly equivalent to the Most High God, for nothing in this earth has ever held any thing in so much debt as we owe He. We are not His peers, or His associates. We are not His neighbors. He is Most High! He was before all and made all! He made us, and it is right that we should obey Him, as His creations, further! For the blood sacrifice He made so that we might not suffer for our own high treason. Everything is owed Him, He who is all Good, and richly deserving of all our love!

(Bah! It won’t let me quote you. Anyhow, you said something to the effect of "No one deserves eternal torture?)

And to that I respond, nay nay! We all do! I can think of only two who don’t, but by our treason do we all richly deserve the sternest of punishments! Which, really is, more along the lines of banishment, from God’s kingdom and mercy. Altogether, we choose how we’ll end up. By our lives, so our deaths, and then, eternity. (That does seem like a leap, doesn’t it? Some odd eighty years and then Boom! Forever…)

 

[The_Otaku]

I think that if a Catholic sincerely believes that the Catholic Church is wrong about Masturbation he’s lost his way. What the devil does see, is create situations where personal compromises are made and that’s where it starts, just like any trap that lures you in.

If I think to myself “gee, I’d really like to masturbate today, but I know I shouldn’t!” and then I say to myself “wait, what if I just stroke it a few times, not enough to orgasm, but at least enough to feel some pleasure”, then I’ve compromised and let the devil in and have given him room to barter. The devil is the greatest manipulator and psychologist in existence. He personalizes your sins and makes you feel like you’ve found a middle ground that appeases your Catholic rules “hey, I didn’t technically spill my seed…that counts for something right?” and “I know I did wrong, but at least I didn’t go all the way! I showed restraint!”

The person affords themselves and rewards themselves with these rationalizations of what they’ve done. It may be hard to accept, and God knows I struggle with it, but even if it’s just 1 little touch, or graze, or sensation that is completely voluntary and controlled by you, then it’s masturbation, because we all know the definition. It’s the stimulation of the genitals for sexual purposes. There’s no way to touch yourself, imagine touching yourself to cause the erection and pleasure, entertaining a fantasy which causes the erection, etc, or any combination of these that is not masturbation in some form. The devil would have you believe you have not committed masturbation if you didn’t go all the way, and he gets you to believe that by getting you to rationalize your sins, compartmentalize your sins, fracture your sins, classify your sins, etc, and buy into this “partial masturbation act” only nonsense.

The person who thinks the Church is wrong because of things like this is why I think he’s lost his way.

 

[KingTheoden]

Abbadon, I am sorry you feel so alienated from God. Like all those who curse Him and those who follow Him, you are in my prayers.

To the OP…

Look, it is very difficult for us in this culture. I know. I mean, on supposedly clean sites like YouTube, ‘featured’ videos border on outright pornography.

What we have to do is, best we can, resist temptation and pray to God for strength and armor. We will fail sometimes. That is why Christ gave us Confession.

Sure, it is pretty embarassing to tell your Priest that you masturbated. Do you think you are the only one? What is worse is having grave sin on your soul wondering if it will keep you from the Kingdom.

I can tell you, messing up your routine and not being physically active enough are critical points that the devil try to exploit. Those and times when we are lonely, away from someone we love, etc.

When we recite the Nicene Creed, we are submitting to the Church, or lying. Christ’s words are clear. The Church has expouned upon this further. Case is closed.

Again, this isn’t a matter of being harsh - God loves us even when we screw up. Go to Confession (as I am tomorrow) and think about ways to avoid this. I hesitate to say this next part…There can be mitigating circumstances. But knowing that, we can NEVER say ‘oh well, God understands it’s a tough culture and I’m a young man - no need to confess.’ WRONG ANSWER!

When we sin, God always allows for greater good to come of it. I have realized other sins, other failings. Don’t feel like if you aren’t perfect from your next Confession to the end of your life that God is not going to let you into Heaven. You have to try and when you fail, do as Christ commanded.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

I was replying to the specific comment, God gets what he wants.

Yea see the difference with my parents is that at some point they would never judge me and put me in the stove themselves for all eternity. Unless of course there are forces outside of your gods control, forces that determine where we go after we die that are out of your gods control.

No one ever deserves to be tortured forever, No one.

They are not being tortured, they are torturing themselves.

The “force outside God’s control” is free will. God allows us the ultimate choice as to whether we will meet the purpose of our existence.

 

[Abbadon]

There’s no worldly equivalent to the Most High God, for nothing in this earth has ever held any thing in so much debt as we owe He. We are not His peers, or His associates. We are not His neighbors. He is Most High! He was before all and made all! He made us, and it is right that we should obey Him, as His creations, further! For the blood sacrifice He made so that we might not suffer for our own high treason. Everything is owed Him, He who is all Good, and richly deserving of all our love!

Whatever… My love and respect is earned, not just given away to any god that thunders and roars that he is love, he is all powerful, OBEY HIM… And frankly no god has convinced me of their existence, however several if they do exist have earnt my respect and love, Yahweh is not one of them.

And to that I respond, nay nay! We all do!

Well you may be a sadist but I am not.

I can think of only two who don’t, but by our treason do we all richly deserve the sternest of punishments! Which, really is, more along the lines of banishment, from God’s kingdom and mercy. Altogether, we choose how we’ll end up. By our lives, so our deaths, and then, eternity. (That does seem like a leap, doesn’t it? Some odd eighty years and then Boom! Forever…)

Boom forever is right… Whatever that forever may be. Punishment in my opinion is never the answer, it is at best a decent temporary solution. Rehabilitation is the best way. In a future perfect we could all live out our sick sick sick fantasies and no one would really ever get hurt.

 

[Abbadon]

They are not being tortured, they are torturing themselves.

The “force outside God’s control” is free will. God allows us the ultimate choice as to whether we will meet the purpose of our existence.

Torture themselves??? The lake of hellfire and damnation isn’t that what you believe? What exactly is your version of hell? Sorry for jumping to conclusions. I’m just going off the hell I was taught in church and Sunday school.

 

[Nick_in_MB]

God is judging you and if you masturbate and are not sorry for it and believe in him and ask for his forgiveness for you have offended him (he gets offended pretty easily) god will send you to hell to be tortured forever. Even if this god was real I would not respect him.

Well, if you weren’t sorry, and you were asking for forgiveness, your “asking” wouldn’t be sincere.
It’s like if you took $20 from somebody, and they knew you took it. They also knew you weren’t sorry for taking it. And then you ask them to forgive you, even though you aren’t sorry for your thievery. It’s not sincere.

Heck I prefer the mafia boss, even the mafia boss can’t threaten me with eternal damnation, not that I respond well to threats.

What, no joke about cement shoes and the East River?
Eternal damnation, no, they ain’t threatening you with that. But a sleep with the fishes…

 

[Abbadon]

What I find so silly is that any god could be offended by someone playing with their pee pee… Specially a god who claims to have created said being and also claims to be the only god…
But then again we are talking about the same god who claims to have turned a woman into salt for turning around to look at her family, loved ones, the city she has know, everything she has known being destroyed. Oh and stoning disobedient children to death and people who pick up sticks on the sabbath and girls that aren’t virgins for their husbands… and… and… okay maybe not so unexpected anymore…

I forgot for a minute the kind of god that was being claimed making the claim… Pity you guys don’t worship Hestia, shes alot nicer.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Torture themselves??? The lake of hellfire and damnation isn’t that what you believe? What exactly is your version of hell? Sorry for jumping to conclusions. I’m just going off the hell I was taught in church and Sunday school.

God loves every human being- or else He would not have created them. God loves every human being and wants them to go to Heaven; however, Heaven is not simply a paradise where everyone gets whatever they want: Heaven is standing the presence of God, of the purest love, greater than anything imaginable. If a person cannot appreciate, cannot return that love, then Heaven would be hellish.

One possible analogy: being hugged by someone you do not like. The more that person shows affection, the more uncomfortable you become. Eventually, you move beyond being annoyed by them and start to genuinely dislike them, and the affection becomes even less desireable. Imagine that process, continued infinitely. That’s Hell as I understand it.