What if a couple disagrees on more kids?

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Rachel126

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This isn’t my situation, but I am wondering from a theoretical point of view. I’m sure couples experience this. What if they already have a couple of kids, and one spouse wants more and the other does not? I would imagine they should talk, and pray, and discuss, and hopefully they will come to agreement one way or the other. But what if they do all that and still can’t agree? I know they say NFP only works if both spouses agree, but from a practical standpoint, how would that work? Most women with regular cycles have a general idea of when they are fertile even if they aren’t formally charting. If one spouse “demands” relations during the fertile period, knowing how the other feels about having another child…well, to me that sounds like a recipe for marital disaster. 🤷 What are couples in this situation supposed to do?
 
I think that in theory the default just has to be that they remain open to life and leave it to God. But I agree, if you are not as one as a couple that must be very difficult although of course whatever you “decide” there are no guarantees. NFP (especially informal NFP) isn’t fool proof - but then nor is contraception.
 
Seriously?

If you’re at a point in your marriage where you are that out of touch with your spouse and are demanding intercourse during fertile days in order to conceive despite knowing your spouse has severe reservations about having another child…you need counseling. Or at least the counsel of a good priest.

There needs to be serious discussions as to why one spouse wants to avoid another pregnancy.

If it can’t be sorted out…then the couple needs to seek outside help…mainly the help of a good priest or a good Catholic counselor.
 
That’s a pretty extreme theoretical example–not saying it wouldn’t ever happen but you sure are stacking the deck. Here’s a real life example. We practice NFP and while I’m the primary charter, I do share it with my husband, particularly when determining phase III. There is a part of me that would love to have more kids while my husband is happy to keep our family size the way it is–and not for trivial reasons. So, out of love for him, I bend to his wish here. But I do pray for God’s will whether that be greater acceptance of this situation or my husband’s change of heart. FYI, we’ve had two “could we be pregnant?” moments since our last child was born and both times we waited for the answer to come with a mix of hope and then relief when we weren’t pregnant after all. I think we both know that even if we didn’t get our wish or plan, our spouse would get his/hers and that was a great comfort. NFP works best with LOTS of communication between the spouses.
 
Trust in God!! He will do whats best for both of you. I wouldn’t worry about it from either of your postions.🙂 If he doesn’t want any, that’s ok! If you want more, that’s ok! In the end, if the Lord wills it for you to have another child, He will change you wills. We must always pray that we do His Holy Will, regardless.🙂

I know it sounds easy to write it! But from experience, I have seen Him do this. I have been married to a man determined to have only 1 child. He was determined to use contraception. Before the day we got married, I explained that I want a family and contaception was not an option. We had our daughter, and he refused more children. I prayed. Did not worry! My husband came to me and said he would like another. We had 2. “No more!” he said. We have 4 kids, and he was certain we are finished! Last week, I saw his heart soften. Just maybe The Lord is working on him again…🙂 I could not be happier! He is happy, not to say it’s not challenging but the Lord doesn’t want us to worry about whats best for us, He wants us to trust in Him. And Pray!!🙂 I hope this helps.
 
You are right that communication is really key. The thing about a situation like this is that it is not static. It’s not as though we can say with 100% certitude that both spouses will feel exactly the same way in perpetuity. As time goes by and situations change, so too can a couple’s thoughts on the issue change. There needs to be good communication and periodic reevaluation.
 
How about a couple who can’t conceive. In fact they have to compete for years, and spend $20,000. to find & adopt a baby/child. kinda hard to accidently adopt…
 
josigirl said:
Trust in God!! He will do whats best for both of you. I wouldn’t worry about it from either of your postions.🙂 If he doesn’t want any, that’s ok! If you want more, that’s ok! In the end, if the Lord wills it for you to have another child, He will change you wills. We must always pray that we do His Holy Will, regardless.🙂
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There are numerous threads started by pregnant wives, married to angry upset husbands.

Of course you should pray, but talking about it with each other also needs to be done.
 
Of course, number of children and family planning method should be thoroughly discussed before marriage. Marrying someone of the same faith is no guarantee they don’t want to break the rules. That said, people do change over time and this is something that does need to be reevaluated every so often.

For married couples it is important for both to be aware of the others wishes and to be respectful toward those wishes. If a wife, for example, does not want more children and is abstaining during her fertile time then her husband should respect her wishes and not “demand” sex. And vice versa.

Nothing wrong with talking about a desire for more children and trying to sway an opinion, but trying to trick or coerce a spouse into conceiving when they do not want another child is just wrong.
 
As someone has already said, it would seem odd to be surprised by a spouse after a couple, few kids. One would hope the relationship is deeper and conversation occurs outside of the bed.

Step one in kids, is to get that first one out. There are too many variables to assume one’s childhood dreams of 3 kids will even happen once it’s appropriate.

I have 2 sisters who can’t have kids, then there is my wife and I and a sister and bro-in-law, who are very fertile.
 
maryjk said:
There are numerous threads started by pregnant wives, married to angry upset husbands.

Of course you should pray, but talking about it with each other also needs to be done.
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🙂 I completely agree that communication is absolutely fundamental in a marriage!! It needs to be in order to raise a family, to love each other and to share good and bad times!! It is also necessary to disagree with each other in order to learn about each other sometimes. It’s not the disagreements that make a strong marriage but the way in which we handle them. So, absolutely communication is vital!

It’s the worry that I was attempting to help with. 🙂

Just a short quote from Matthew 6:25-34

25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?

In regards to the Angry Husbands;

I am sorry to hear about the angry husbands, sometimes we might not always agree or accept Our Fathers Will at the time, but not one soul enters this earth without God’s will and all are created by Him for His Purpose and for His Glory. Trust in Him…🙂
 
I am praying for this scenario within anyone’s marriages who are suffering from disagreement on this issue! I’ve been there! I agree completely with Josigirl, and in my own words, I encourage the wife to defer to the husband’s authority. The husband submits to and answer to God for his actions, and the wife submits to and answers to God for her submission under her husband. This is a divinely appointed duty for wives, to defer to their husband as God’s representative on earth. By putting the decision about future children in her husband’s hands and trusting God to bless her husband’s decisions, she gains her husband’s trust and God’s blessings upon her head. This seems to go completely against current cultural trends emphasizing women’s rights and gender equality, but God’s not ever followed cultural trends, has HE! If you claim to believe and accept God as your authority, then His Word is the rule, and to skirt His rules will result in trouble! I personally came up against this many times throughout the last 22 years of childraising - I have 10 children ages 21 to 3! I originally thought I wanted 4 children, and actually used a diaphram against my husband’s opposition after baby #4 until God convicted me to toss it. After that time, I struggled with every time my husband desired another child, especially with #8, a son. I was exhausted struggling and opposing what was against the desires of my heart, to keep birthing babies instead of adopting orphans, which is what I wanted. Each time I gave up control to God, and each time (every 2 years) another child would come. THANK GOD for His persistence! I am overwhelmed every day, not with tiredness or stress, but with love and thankfulness for these amazing and remarkable people I helped bring into this world!!! All the edema, hypertension, heartburn, fears, and hurting joints are worth the blessings I am multiplying all over the world in my children. Our quiver is full, and our mission clear! We are filling the Faith with energy and vitality, and I love seeing another child leave the nest and break out on his or her own! That is my story, and to the wife who’s husband wants to limit the number, the same grace applies, and the Divine opportunities abound! God doesn’t ignore our heart’s desires - He answers them in time, in His way. Do you trust God? Do you really trust that God has control over your life? Over the n umber of children He has pre ordained for you? This isn’t an issue of wife vs. husband, this sounds like wife vs. God and a lack of trust. Have faith and claim it even when you don’t feel it. Obedience to God doesn’t require feeling good about it! You obey because you agreed to when you accepted the Lord as your Saviour. Obey and trust, and pray for peace and grace when in conflict. Anyone have other thoughts?
 
lisagruen1969 said:
I am praying for this scenario within anyone’s marriages who are suffering from disagreement on this issue! I’ve been there! I agree completely with Josigirl, and in my own words, I encourage the wife to defer to the husband’s authority. The husband submits to and answer to God for his actions, and the wife submits to and answers to God for her submission under her husband. This is a divinely appointed duty for wives, to defer to their husband as God’s representative on earth. By putting the decision about future children in her husband’s hands and trusting God to bless her husband’s decisions, she gains her husband’s trust and God’s blessings upon her head. This seems to go completely against current cultural trends emphasizing women’s rights and gender equality, but God’s not ever followed cultural trends, has HE! If you claim to believe and accept God as your authority, then His Word is the rule, and to skirt His rules will result in trouble! I personally came up against this many times throughout the last 22 years of childraising - I have 10 children ages 21 to 3! I originally thought I wanted 4 children, and actually used a diaphram against my husband’s opposition after baby #4 until God convicted me to toss it. After that time, I struggled with every time my husband desired another child, especially with #8, a son. I was exhausted struggling and opposing what was against the desires of my heart, to keep birthing babies instead of adopting orphans, which is what I wanted. Each time I gave up control to God, and each time (every 2 years) another child would come. THANK GOD for His persistence! I am overwhelmed every day, not with tiredness or stress, but with love and thankfulness for these amazing and remarkable people I helped bring into this world!!! All the edema, hypertension, heartburn, fears, and hurting joints are worth the blessings I am multiplying all over the world in my children. Our quiver is full, and our mission clear! We are filling the Faith with energy and vitality, and I love seeing another child leave the nest and break out on his or her own! That is my story, and to the wife who’s husband wants to limit the number, the same grace applies, and the Divine opportunities abound! God doesn’t ignore our heart’s desires - He answers them in time, in His way. Do you trust God? Do you really trust that God has control over your life? Over the n umber of children He has pre ordained for you? This isn’t an issue of wife vs. husband, this sounds like wife vs. God and a lack of trust. Have faith and claim it even when you don’t feel it. Obedience to God doesn’t require feeling good about it! You obey because you agreed to when you accepted the Lord as your Saviour. Obey and trust, and pray for peace and grace when in conflict. Anyone have other thoughts?
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The one sided submission of the wife to the husband – has sin as its core. Your views are fundamentalist protestant.
 
Walking_Home said:
The one sided submission of the wife to the husband – has sin as its core. Your views are fundamentalist protestant.
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You may not like her interpretation of what submission means in marriage–by all means, have a discussion with her about it!–but accusing her of being in sin and being a fundamentalist Protestant because she gave in to her husband on this question is outrageous. Please tone down your rhetoric.
 
EasterJoy said:
You may not like her interpretation of what submission means in marriage–by all means, have a discussion with her about it!–but accusing her of being in sin and being a fundamentalist Protestant because she gave in to her husband on this question is outrageous. Please tone down your rhetoric.
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You may not like my rhetoric – but it doesn’t change – her views are still what they are – fundamentalist protestant – and dangerous.
 
Walking_Home said:
You may not like my rhetoric – but it doesn’t change – her views are still what they are – fundamentalist protestant – and dangerous.
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Do you normally find that telling someone that their thinking is has “sin at its core” is effective “rhetoric”? Do you find this rhetoric effective with *actual *fundamentalist Protestants whose views on what Holy Scriptures you find wrong-headed?

There are a billion Catholics in the world, and there’s always the chance that some of them don’t agree with you. A Catholic can read a passage of Scriptures in a way you think is too literal or even unknowingly read it in a way the Magesterium has bluntly said is too literal without–poof!–becoming a fundamentalist Protestant! So tell her she is too literal, if you like, tell her she is making a mistake the Protestants make or that the Church has specifically corrected, but don’t throw the word “Protestant” around like an epithet at any fellow Catholic you think understands the Scriptures badly. It is needlessly insulting, both to the Catholic and, frankly, to the Protestants. Somebody can be honestly mistaken without having thinking with “sin as its core”. Since sin is willfully defiant to divine law, not simply incorrect, that is a rhetorically over the top thing to say to someone who has not expressed any desire to do anything but what the Church teaches!
 
Rachel126 said:
This isn’t my situation, but I am wondering from a theoretical point of view. I’m sure couples experience this. What if they already have a couple of kids, and one spouse wants more and the other does not? I would imagine they should talk, and pray, and discuss, and hopefully they will come to agreement one way or the other. But what if they do all that and still can’t agree? I know they say NFP only works if both spouses agree, but from a practical standpoint, how would that work? Most women with regular cycles have a general idea of when they are fertile even if they aren’t formally charting. If one spouse “demands” relations during the fertile period, knowing how the other feels about having another child…well, to me that sounds like a recipe for marital disaster. 🤷 What are couples in this situation supposed to do?
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One spouse cannot force himself or herself on the other, nor can one simply refuse the other out of mere willful insistence on having his or her own way (rather than some real incapacity of some extent). The couple has to figure out how to come to an agreement, rather than each asserting a conflicting right. (It is another matter when the question is one in which moral law is clear, but I’m assuming you mean a situation where the couple has to discern what applies in their case, rather than a question where there was only one morally permissible course.)

What if one spouse “demands” they stay in one town and the other “demands” that they move? Neither alternative works if they simply defend their own way and refuse to come to an agreement, does it? IMHO, if at least one spouse is not ready to unilaterally give in, even if it causes some sadness, then yes, that is a recipe for disaster. If you do not value your marriage more than you value always being able to take what you believe to be the right course, your marriage is danger. There is such a thing as being dead right.

Who is it to be? My mother would say it is the wife…a wife submits to her husband as to Christ. My dad would say it is the husband, who gives himself up for his wife as Christ does for the Church. That combination worked out about right, such that in the end, they both submitted one to the other, out of reverence for Christ. It started with each being willing to be the one to give in, to be the servant. It wasn’t 50/50 with them. They each gave 100%, and they didn’t keep score. In some marriages, where one is more mature than the other, it will probably be a great deal off from 50/50. That isn’t right, but there are ways to deal with that rather than for the one who gives in to just dig in and fight something to the ground. The cure can be worse for the marriage than the disease.

There were two little boys waiting for the pancakes their mom was making to come out of the pan…which due to the size of the pan was one at a time. When the first pancake was done, they quarreled about who ought to have it. Their mother said, “Come, come boys. Don’t fight! What would Jesus do?” To this, the older boy said to the younger, “Jake, you be Jesus.” The older brother’s way does not work so well, does it? 😉 😃
 
lisagruen1969 said:
I am praying for this scenario within anyone’s marriages who are suffering from disagreement on this issue! I’ve been there! I agree completely with Josigirl, and in my own words, I encourage the wife to defer to the husband’s authority. The husband submits to and answer to God for his actions, and the wife submits to and answers to God for her submission under her husband. This is a divinely appointed duty for wives, to defer to their husband as God’s representative on earth. By putting the decision about future children in her husband’s hands and trusting God to bless her husband’s decisions, she gains her husband’s trust and God’s blessings upon her head. This seems to go completely against current cultural trends emphasizing women’s rights and gender equality, but God’s not ever followed cultural trends, has HE! If you claim to believe and accept God as your authority, then His Word is the rule, and to skirt His rules will result in trouble! I personally came up against this many times throughout the last 22 years of childraising - I have 10 children ages 21 to 3! I originally thought I wanted 4 children, and actually used a diaphram against my husband’s opposition after baby #4 until God convicted me to toss it. After that time, I struggled with every time my husband desired another child, especially with #8, a son. I was exhausted struggling and opposing what was against the desires of my heart, to keep birthing babies instead of adopting orphans, which is what I wanted. Each time I gave up control to God, and each time (every 2 years) another child would come. THANK GOD for His persistence! I am overwhelmed every day, not with tiredness or stress, but with love and thankfulness for these amazing and remarkable people I helped bring into this world!!! All the edema, hypertension, heartburn, fears, and hurting joints are worth the blessings I am multiplying all over the world in my children. Our quiver is full, and our mission clear! We are filling the Faith with energy and vitality, and I love seeing another child leave the nest and break out on his or her own! That is my story, and to the wife who’s husband wants to limit the number, the same grace applies, and the Divine opportunities abound! God doesn’t ignore our heart’s desires - He answers them in time, in His way. Do you trust God? Do you really trust that God has control over your life? Over the n umber of children He has pre ordained for you? This isn’t an issue of wife vs. husband, this sounds like wife vs. God and a lack of trust. Have faith and claim it even when you don’t feel it. Obedience to God doesn’t require feeling good about it! You obey because you agreed to when you accepted the Lord as your Saviour. Obey and trust, and pray for peace and grace when in conflict. Anyone have other thoughts?
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Catholics do not follow the Quiverful movement. I admire anyone who feels it in their heart to make orphans their own, even if they have or intend to have biological children.

Both men and women were made for the glory of God, both in the image of God. God gave women brains and minds of their own, to be used. Both men and women should submit to God and marriages should be about mutual respect, trust and love. The decision to have a child should be a joint decision, made out of love not a decision arising from submission and dominance.
 
Rachel126 said:
This isn’t my situation, but I am wondering from a theoretical point of view. I’m sure couples experience this. What if they already have a couple of kids, and one spouse wants more and the other does not? I would imagine they should talk, and pray, and discuss, and hopefully they will come to agreement one way or the other. But what if they do all that and still can’t agree? I know they say NFP only works if both spouses agree, but from a practical standpoint, how would that work? Most women with regular cycles have a general idea of when they are fertile even if they aren’t formally charting. If one spouse “demands” relations during the fertile period, knowing how the other feels about having another child…well, to me that sounds like a recipe for marital disaster. 🤷 What are couples in this situation supposed to do?
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I don’t wish to sound disrespectful in any way, but this made me giggle…
my ex wife said after our third child.the shop is shut !
and that was it…
 
lisagruen1969 said:
I am praying for this scenario within anyone’s marriages who are suffering from disagreement on this issue! I’ve been there! I agree completely with Josigirl, and in my own words, I encourage the wife to defer to the husband’s authority. The husband submits to and answer to God for his actions, and the wife submits to and answers to God for her submission under her husband. This is a divinely appointed duty for wives, to defer to their husband as God’s representative on earth. By putting the decision about future children in her husband’s hands and trusting God to bless her husband’s decisions, she gains her husband’s trust and God’s blessings upon her head. This seems to go completely against current cultural trends emphasizing women’s rights and gender equality, but God’s not ever followed cultural trends, has HE! If you claim to believe and accept God as your authority, then His Word is the rule, and to skirt His rules will result in trouble! I personally came up against this many times throughout the last 22 years of childraising - I have 10 children ages 21 to 3! I originally thought I wanted 4 children, and actually used a diaphram against my husband’s opposition after baby #4 until God convicted me to toss it. After that time, I struggled with every time my husband desired another child, especially with #8, a son. I was exhausted struggling and opposing what was against the desires of my heart, to keep birthing babies instead of adopting orphans, which is what I wanted. Each time I gave up control to God, and each time (every 2 years) another child would come. THANK GOD for His persistence! I am overwhelmed every day, not with tiredness or stress, but with love and thankfulness for these amazing and remarkable people I helped bring into this world!!! All the edema, hypertension, heartburn, fears, and hurting joints are worth the blessings I am multiplying all over the world in my children. Our quiver is full, and our mission clear! We are filling the Faith with energy and vitality, and I love seeing another child leave the nest and break out on his or her own! That is my story, and to the wife who’s husband wants to limit the number, the same grace applies, and the Divine opportunities abound! God doesn’t ignore our heart’s desires - He answers them in time, in His way. Do you trust God? Do you really trust that God has control over your life? Over the n umber of children He has pre ordained for you? This isn’t an issue of wife vs. husband, this sounds like wife vs. God and a lack of trust. Have faith and claim it even when you don’t feel it. Obedience to God doesn’t require feeling good about it! You obey because you agreed to when you accepted the Lord as your Saviour. Obey and trust, and pray for peace and grace when in conflict. Anyone have other thoughts?
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