What if a layman was consecrated a bishop but was not yet a priest?

[runningdude]

My bad. I meant Pope Celestine III, Innocent’s predecessor. He wasn’t ordained a priest until a month after he started his Papacy.

Another example would be Cesare Borgia, son of Pope Alexander. He was consecrated a bishop when he was not yet a priest.

Be given the responsibilities of the office of bishop (or even pope) is not the same as being “ordained”. These men would have administered their office, but would not have celebrated mass or heard confessions until their ordination.

 

[bzkoss236]

bzkoss236;11009603:

Partially true. Any baptized Catholic male is eligible for the Papacy, but if a layman is selected, he will then have to go through Holy Orders to become a priest, then a bishop, and then given the Papal position in the fullest capacity.

That’s not true. It is true that in more modern days, the Pope has been elected from the Cardinals, as they have been the ones who have been put up for election, but it isn’t a requirement. Just as you don’t have to be a Bishop to be a Cardinal, but in more recent times, only Bishops have been given the honor of being a Cardinal.

 

[Memaw]

You didn’t ask what happened back in the middle ages , you asked “what if…” (as in, what if Pope Francis was to do so…)

It wouldn’t happen.

If you wish to play the hypothetical game, the Pope could dispense with the canonical requirements. As long as the person is a baptized Catholic male (required for validity), the person could be confirmed on the spot, ordained on the spot, and consecrated on the spot.

But it still wouldn’t happen.

Wild speculation! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

Memaw;11009683:

I don’t believe this is accurate.

Sorry, but only Cardinals allowed. Haven’t you watched the last few elections. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

Memaw;11009683:

That’s not true. It is true that in more modern days, the Pope has been elected from the Cardinals, as they have been the ones who have been put up for election, but it isn’t a requirement. Just as you don’t have to be a Bishop to be a Cardinal, but in more recent times, only Bishops have been given the honor of being a Cardinal.

Isn’t that what I just said?? It is a requirement today. Have to be a Cardinal,( validly ordained a priest and consecrated a bishop) before he can become a Cardinal. God Bless, Memaw

 

[bzkoss236]

Isn’t that what I just said?? It is a requirement today. Have to be a Cardinal,( validly ordained a priest and consecrated a bishop) before he can become a Cardinal. God Bless, Memaw

It’s not a requirement.

There is a difference between something being a requirement and something being more coincidental. There is no official requirement from the Church that states you have to be a Cardinal to be the Pope, so saying that it is a requirement is incorrect. It is the same incorrectness to say that the Church forbids priests to marry. That is not the case, it is that seminarians who take the vow of celibacy are chosen to become priests. It is the vow of celibacy that makes it so they can’t marry.

The Church still holds that any baptized Catholic male is eligible for the Papacy. It is just that the Cardinals, the ones holding the election, know the other Cardinals better, so they tend to only put other Cardinals up for election, but that isn’t to say that a Cardinal couldn’t put in the name of a layperson they know who is very devout and properly catechized for the election, because one very well could.

 

[Elizium23]

Who can be elected Pope?

The above link is to Dr. Ed Peters’ Canon Law Blog “In the Light of the Law”. He is very knowledgeable.

In current law, a man does not attain the office of Pope (Bishop of Rome) until he is consecrated a bishop. The law has provisions for both cases. A man already a bishop becomes Pope upon his word: “I accept”. “If the person elected is not already a Bishop, he shall immediately be ordained Bishop.” (UDG #88).

The law has not always been this way. It was possible for a layman to be Pope without being Bishop. There are some instances where a Pope was elected but died before consecration, and is still listed among the valid popes.

 

[aemcpa]

The law has not always been this way. It was possible for a layman to be Pope without being Bishop. There are some instances where a Pope was elected but died before consecration, and is still listed among the valid popes.

When has one been able to be Bishop of Rome without being a bishop? Name one.

 

[Elizium23]

The law was again changed on October 1, 1975, with Romano Pontifici Eligendo.

Regarding “name one”, it apparently did not become an actual problem; we have the case of Pope-elect Stephen who was the victim of an anachronistic reading of the law, but is not today counted among the Popes.

So this provision of law which I am speaking of lasted from sometime after the year 752 until 1975.

 

[bcuster]

Hello. If a layman was consecrated a bishop, but he was not yet a priest, would he be a valid bishop? Would he be able to perform confirmations and confer Holy Orders?

God bless you for answering my question.

I believe St. Ambrose was a lay man. He was first ordained a priest and then elevated to Bishop. It would be extremely rare to happen these days, but I know some lay men who might be called upon in time of need.

 

[Memaw]

It’s not a requirement.

There is a difference between something being a requirement and something being more coincidental. There is no official requirement from the Church that states you have to be a Cardinal to be the Pope, so saying that it is a requirement is incorrect. It is the same incorrectness to say that the Church forbids priests to marry. That is not the case, it is that seminarians who take the vow of celibacy are chosen to become priests. It is the vow of celibacy that makes it so they can’t marry.

The Church still holds that any baptized Catholic male is eligible for the Papacy. It is just that the Cardinals, the ones holding the election, know the other Cardinals better, so they tend to only put other Cardinals up for election, but that isn’t to say that a Cardinal couldn’t put in the name of a layperson they know who is very devout and properly catechized for the election, because one very well could.

How likely would it be for enough Cardinals to put the name of the same layman in to elect him Pope??? I doubt that any of them would waste their vote doing that. And if it’s not required to be a validly ordained Cardinal to be eligible to elect a new Pope, then why are they doing it that way??? All this surmising does no good. Whats in the past is just that. It’s done this way now!! Just accept it. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Phemie]

You seem to forget that one need not be ordained to be named Cardinal.

 

[Memaw]

You seem to forget that one need not be ordained to be named Cardinal.

Name one!. God Bless, Memaw

 

[markomalley]

You seem to forget that one need not be ordained to be named Cardinal.

Can. 351 §1. The Roman Pontiff freely selects men to be promoted as cardinals, who have been ordained at least into the order of the presbyterate and are especially outstanding in doctrine, morals, piety, and prudence in action; those who are not yet bishops must receive episcopal consecration.

§2. Cardinals are created by a decree of the Roman Pontiff which is made public in the presence of the college of cardinals. From the moment of the announcement they are bound by the duties and possess the rights defined by law.

(Now, granted, the Supreme Pontiff may, as legislator, grant an indult or change the law at his sole discretion. But the above is the law)

 

[Memaw]

Can. 351 §1. The Roman Pontiff freely selects men to be promoted as cardinals, who have been ordained at least into the order of the presbyterate and are especially outstanding in doctrine, morals, piety, and prudence in action; those who are not yet bishops must receive episcopal consecration.

§2. Cardinals are created by a decree of the Roman Pontiff which is made public in the presence of the college of cardinals. From the moment of the announcement they are bound by the duties and possess the rights defined by law.

(Now, granted, the Supreme Pontiff may, as legislator, grant an indult or change the law at his sole discretion. But the above is the law)

Like I said before, Name one!. God Bless, Memaw

 

[aemcpa]

How likely would it be for enough Cardinals to put the name of the same layman in to elect him Pope??? I doubt that any of them would waste their vote doing that. And if it’s not required to be a validly ordained Cardinal to be eligible to elect a new Pope, then why are they doing it that way??? All this surmising does no good. Whats in the past is just that. It’s done this way now!! Just accept it. God Bless, Memaw

There is no requirement that the Cardinals vote for a Cardinal. It is widely believed that Giovanni Battista Montini, then Archbishop of Milan and later elected Pope Paul VI in 1963, received votes in 1958 even though he wasn’t yet a Cardinal. If the Cardinals knew of a holy and competent layman that they felt God wanted to be Pope, they could vote for him.

Also, one is not ordained a Cardinal. It is a honorary title granted by the Pope.

 

[bzkoss236]

How likely would it be for enough Cardinals to put the name of the same layman in to elect him Pope??? I doubt that any of them would waste their vote doing that. And if it’s not required to be a validly ordained Cardinal to be eligible to elect a new Pope, then why are they doing it that way??? All this surmising does no good. Whats in the past is just that. It’s done this way now!! Just accept it. God Bless, Memaw

I’m not dismissing the way it is done. I’m just saying that it is incorrect to say that it is a requirement, when it is not. How likely it is to happen is irrelevant of requirements. Requirements say whether something is or isn’t allowed. Since it is still allowed, however unlikely, to put forth the name of a layman for the Pontificate, it is not a requirement to be a Cardinal.

 

[markomalley]

I’m not dismissing the way it is done. I’m just saying that it is incorrect to say that it is a requirement, when it is not. How likely it is to happen is irrelevant of requirements. Requirements say whether something is or isn’t allowed. Since it is still allowed, however unlikely, to put forth the name of a layman for the Pontificate, it is not a requirement to be a Cardinal.

See post 33. It is a requirement to be at least a priest. If one is not a bishop art tyre time of selection, he must be consecrated as a bishop upon selection.

 

[bzkoss236]

See post 33. It is a requirement to be at least a priest. If one is not a bishop art tyre time of selection, he must be consecrated as a bishop upon selection.

I was talking about the requirements to become the Pope, not a Cardinal.

 

[Brendan]

Name one!. God Bless, Memaw

Tedelofo Mertel was installed as a Cardinal by Pope Pius IX.

He was later Ordained as a Deacon, but was not in Holy Orders at the time of his installation to the College.

He was never Ordained as a priest, let alone a bishop