What if a priest has nobody to confess to?

[NewEnglandPriest]

If you die in a state of mortal sin you go to Hell. No interpretation needed. Very clear and unambiguous teaching backed by the authority of God given to the Church. If no act of perfect contrition is made then your state of mortal sin remains and if you die before you reach Confession you go to Hell.

Correct, to die in a state of mortal sin means someone goes to hell. Imperfect contrition needs something else to achieve the forgiveness of the mortal sin. God is free to forgive someone moments before their death if they have imperfect contrition. Obviously we only *know *that has happened when confession takes place, however God is not bound by the sacraments. He is free to act outside of them, or not. I would never encourage anyone to avoid the sacrament of confession since its our only guarantee and surety of forgiveness. However if someone got hit by a bus on their way to confession, while I have no way of knowing what God has done I see no reason to assume that God would *never *choose to forgive in such extraordinary circumstances.

 

[Cristiano]

If you die in a state of mortal sin you go to Hell. No interpretation needed. Very clear and unambiguous teaching backed by the authority of God given to the Church. If no act of perfect contrition is made then your state of mortal sin remains and if you die before you reach Confession you go to Hell.

Correct, to die in a state of mortal sin means someone goes to hell. Imperfect contrition needs something else to achieve the forgiveness of the mortal sin. God is free to forgive someone moments before their death if they have imperfect contrition. Obviously we only *know *that has happened when confession takes place, however God is not bound by the sacraments. He is free to act outside of them, or not. I would never encourage anyone to avoid the sacrament of confession since its our only guarantee and surety of forgiveness. However if someone got hit by a bus on their way to confession, while I have no way of knowing what God has done I see no reason to assume that God would *never *choose to forgive in such extraordinary circumstances.

I think that, while we are 100% sure that in case of unrepented mortal sin people will go to hell, we are not sure that imperfect contrition of a mortal sin is truly an unrepented mortal sin. There are some things that we are not to know and that is why we must rely on God’s mercy for extraordinary cases.

 

[Big_Feet]

If you die in a state of mortal sin you go to Hell. No interpretation needed. Very clear and unambiguous teaching backed by the authority of God given to the Church. If no act of perfect contrition is made then your state of mortal sin remains and if you die before you reach Confession you go to Hell.

I sure am glad that God will be judging my soul, and not you! (and no, I am not looking for a “get out of jail FREE card” as stated in an earlier post)

Didn’t Jesus imply something about the “letter” vs. the “spirit” of the law?

Also, I am curious…can you tell us anyone who is sure to be in hell?

 

[ValPal]

I think a very important point in the OP is being missed. The priest has the option of getting on a lifeboat and saving himself. He is choosing to stay behind to minister to others, realizing that his own death is almost a certainty. He is placing Christ above himself and his own well being, which means he is a martyr. According to the words of Christ Himself, such a person’s salvation is guaranteed.

Christ makes no distinction as to one’s baptismal status or their state of sin. If they die a martyr, they are guaranteed salvation. Period. Christ cannot be wrong.

 

[Cristiano]

I sure am glad that God will be judging my soul, and not you! (and no, I am not looking for a “get out of jail FREE card” as stated in an earlier post)

Didn’t Jesus imply something about the “letter” vs. the “spirit” of the law?

Also, I am curious…can you tell us anyone who is sure to be in hell?

Just because I said that we should not plan for a “get out of jail FREE card” that does not mean that I would mind having one handy.

I am just a stubborn sinner.

 

[Irishgal49]

The Church cannot be in error in matters of faith and morals because its teachings have the authority of God.
The Church teaches that anyone dying in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to Hell.
It also teaches that imperfect contrition does not forgive mortal sins.

It seems to me that too many people are looking for get out of jail free cards and have views like many Protestants because they don’t want to accept Church teachings.

The Church is correct but how does anyone know what God may have done in regard to that person and their circumstance. Can you say that God did not reach out and offer them mercy and they accepted it at the moment of their death? We could also say that they could have rejected an offer if such an offer of grace was made. I am not comfortable with this logic becasuse sometimes there are addictions, compulsions, mental illnesses that the person themselves may not even be aware of and who are we to know what is “moral” and who are we to tell God how to reach out and save someone. I have OCD and I never know if I’m using full knowledge and consent and I go through horrendous agony fearing I will die before I can get a priest to hear my Confessions. The last thing people need to hear is, “Make sure a priest goes with you in the car because if you have an accident and don’t get absolution you are going to hell.” There is not get out of jail free card. I struggle with an addiction and honestly don’t know if my addiction is mortal or not, I can see instances where it seems to be and others when it doesn’t. How are we to know that someone might have some buried thing in their past that influences them? How can we have the arrogance to say what God will and won’t do in the absence of a priest?

These are the reasons I stomped away from the Church the first time; not the teachings, not the doctrine, not the “rules” but the people who meet out “judgement” as if it’s coming out of their pay if someone isn’t damned. It’s like they NEED people to be damned to justify their own “righteousness”. I am probably damned in most people’s eyes but I am trying as hard as I can and I just don’t see God turning His back on someone who, sincerely wanted to, but couldn’t see a priest before they passed away. What in the heck is purgatory for then???

 

[Cristiano]

I think a very important point in the OP is being missed. The priest has the option of getting on a lifeboat and saving himself. He is choosing to stay behind to minister to others, realizing that his own death is almost a certainty. He is placing Christ above himself and his own well being, which means he is a martyr. According to the words of Christ Himself, such a person’s salvation is guaranteed.

Christ makes no distinction as to one’s baptismal status or their state of sin. If they die a martyr, they are guaranteed salvation. Period. Christ cannot be wrong.

I do not know if I would call the person a martyr but your point is consistent with what ConstantineTG was bringing up in post #16 with his quote from Matthew 10:39 “Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”.

In 1913, if I remember correctly, the Church made it clear that such a verse must be interpreted literally and so we must be reassured that a priest giving his life to save souls is heaven bound.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

I think that, while we are 100% sure that in case of unrepented mortal sin people will go to hell, we are not sure that imperfect contrition of a mortal sin is truly an unrepented mortal sin. There are some things that we are not to know and that is why we must rely on God’s mercy for extraordinary cases.

Agreed.

 

[asd72]

A lot of people die unexpectedly without a Priest present. That’s why we have to be ready. It’s not a specific thing for Priests.

 

[Cristiano]

I do not know if I would call the person a martyr but your point is consistent with what ConstantineTG was bringing up in post #16 with his quote from Matthew 10:39 “Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”.

In 1913, if I remember correctly, the Church made it clear that such a verse must be interpreted literally and so we must be reassured that a priest giving his life to save souls is heaven bound.

I was wrong, the statement from the Biblical Commission in 1933 was in reference to Matthew 16:26 “What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life?”. However, the preceeding Matthew 16:25 says: “For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” and I assume that the literary understanding must apply to this verse too.

 

[thistle]

I sure am glad that God will be judging my soul, and not you! (and no, I am not looking for a “get out of jail FREE card” as stated in an earlier post)

Didn’t Jesus imply something about the “letter” vs. the “spirit” of the law?

Also, I am curious…can you tell us anyone who is sure to be in hell?

Yes. Anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Yes. Anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin.

But has it happened?

 

[ValPal]

Yes. Anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin.

Unless they are a martyr. Christ, who is the ultimate infallible source, makes no reference to one’s state of sin, or anything else, in this case. Willingly die for Christ, straight to Heaven.

 

[Mustang1971]

From the Ask an Apologist section

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=14932

 

[zenith15]

But we are NOT God…and we are not able to see what that person would have done, God is not bound by time or space. God can reach us in a coma or at that moment between life and death and offer us mercy. St Faustina talks about this in detail. No one EVER has the right to say who goes to heaven and hell as we do not know God’s actions toward that person at their moment of death.

Yes I agree. I haven’t finished the thread yet but just had to say–what about the thief on the cross? He just asked the Lord to “Remember me when you come into your Kingdom”. He did not make an act of contrition, perfect, imperfect or otherwise, though he did say he and the other thief deserved their crucifixions. Yet Jesus CHOSE, because of his display of faith in his final agony, to forgive him and save him. God is NOT BOUND by anything and can save whom He chooses.

 

[zenith15]

God’s grace is not built on chance and mis-timing. I do not believe God sits up in heaven and waits for a person on his or her way to confession but minutes before the confession zaps them with lightning.

It would be a dreary world indeed if one lived in that kind of fear. It is my responsibility to show forth God’s love and sacrifice. It is not my responsibility to second guess His mercy or His judgement.

I think that things like this are the reason there are so many suffering from scrupulosity in the Church, whereas when I was a Protestant I never even heard the term. I tend to be an anxious person myself, usually about medical fears, dying, etc and I have to say that I can see how these types of threads could tip people so disposed right over the edge into full fledged paranoia and fear. I just have a hard time believing God would set up things in such a way that if one cannot reach absolution before death, or death comes suddenly as one was intending to go to confession that God ships them off to burn in eternal damnation. It really is off-putting.

 

[thistle]

Unless they are a martyr. Christ, who is the ultimate infallible source, makes no reference to one’s state of sin, or anything else, in this case. Willingly die for Christ, straight to Heaven.

If a non-Catholic dies for the Catholic faith that is baptism of blood and they have no mortal sin on their soul at death.
Anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to Hell. That is an infallible Church teaching.

 

[thistle]

Yes I agree. I haven’t finished the thread yet but just had to say–what about the thief on the cross? He just asked the Lord to “Remember me when you come into your Kingdom”. He did not make an act of contrition, perfect, imperfect or otherwise, though he did say he and the other thief deserved their crucifixions. Yet Jesus CHOSE, because of his display of faith in his final agony, to forgive him and save him. God is NOT BOUND by anything and can save whom He chooses.

The thief on the cross was likely the first instance of baptism of desire.

 

[ValPal]

If a non-Catholic dies for the Catholic faith that is baptism of blood and they have no mortal sin on their soul at death.
Anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to Hell. That is an infallible Church teaching.

Christ is the ultimate infallible infallible source. Any teaching by the Church that follows Christ cannot contradict Christ. Did Christ make exceptions for martyrdom? No. This is not my opinion, it is Christ’s opinion.

Then the Church cannot place limitations on Christ’s mercy. What you are claiming does, thus it is contradictory and incorrect.

I never understood the baptism of desire, baptism by blood, etc. issue as it pertains to the subject, because it results in the exclusion of a particular set of people (the previously baptized) from Christ’s mercy when they willingly die for Him…something Christ never said or implied.

 

[thistle]

Christ is the ultimate infallible infallible source. Any teaching by the Church that follows Christ cannot contradict Christ. Did Christ make exceptions for martyrdom? No. This is not my opinion, it is Christ’s opinion.

Then the Church cannot place limitations on Christ’s mercy. What you are claiming does, thus it is contradictory and incorrect.

I never understood the baptism of desire, baptism by blood, etc. issue as it pertains to the subject, because it results in the exclusion of a particular set of people (the previously baptized) from Christ’s mercy when they willingly die for Him…something Christ never said or implied.

The Church is not putting limitations on Christ’s mercy. Christ gave the Church the authority to loose and bind and he said whatever is bound on earth will be bound in Heaven. That means the Church teaching that anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes to Hell is binding and will not be contradicted by Christ.