What if a priest has nobody to confess to?

[ValPal]

The Church is not putting limitations on Christ’s mercy. Christ gave the Church the authority to loose and bind and he said whatever is bound on earth will be bound in Heaven. That means the Church teaching that anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes to Hell is binding and will not be contradicted by Christ.

The Church has no authority to lose and bind infallible truths. It should also be noted that the Church addresses the case of the unbaptized martyr, but not the baptized martyr. They can’t use the baptism argument in this case, but also can’t say the the baptized martyr in a state of mortal sin goes to hell either, because that would clearly contradict an infallible truth.

I honestly don’t understand why people are arguing that the priest that forgoes his chance of rescue and life to minister for Christ would go to hell. Such arguments are a perversion of the Truth, and make us less like Catholics and more like Pharisees.

 

[thistle]

The Church has no authority to lose and bind infallible truths. It should also be noted that the Church addresses the case of the unbaptized martyr, but not the baptized martyr. They can’t use the baptism argument in this case, but also can’t say the the baptized martyr in a state of mortal sin goes to hell either, because that would clearly contradict an infallible truth.

I honestly don’t understand why people are arguing that the priest that forgoes his chance of rescue and life to minister for Christ would go to hell. Such arguments are a perversion of the Truth, and make us less like Catholics and more like Pharisees.

You are a Catholic. At least that’s what your profile states. You are must believe the infallible teachings of the Church. One of them is that anyone dying in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to Hell.
It is heresy not to believe that.

CCC 1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of Hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into Hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of Hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

 

[ValPal]

You are a Catholic. At least that’s what your profile states. You are must believe the infallible teachings of the Church.

I believe Christ is infallible. Do you take a different position?

One of them is that anyone dying in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to Hell.

This is an example of what happens when the general public interprets Canon Law. One section used in one context is dissected out and applied to another in a different context. Attorneys do this type of thing all day long.

CCC 1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of Hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into Hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of Hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

Reconcile this with what Christ said about martyrs.

I believe in a Truthful and forgiving God that says what He means and means what He says, not an attorney-like God that plays “gotcha” with those that die for Him. In fact, Christ clearly has disdain for people that play this game.

The priest in the OP has nothing to worry about. How do I know this? Because of the words that actually proceeded from Christ’s’ mouth.

 

[PazzoGrande]

Unless they are a martyr. Christ, who is the ultimate infallible source, makes no reference to one’s state of sin, or anything else, in this case. Willingly die for Christ, straight to Heaven.

That’s something that I question, actually. We know Purgatory exists because it’s in Maccabees, right? The story is that warriors died fighting for God, but because they were wearing foreign idols when they died, they needed to be prayed for so they could be released from their sins.

So they died for God but still had to go to purgatory. If that is so, how do we know that Christian martyrs don’t also have to go to purgatory?

As such, I never completely understood the beatification of martyrs without miracles, because of those Maccabean warriors who died for God still had to sweat it out in purgatory, what’s saying that those others who died for Christ didn’t? I understand that beatifications aren’t infallible, but still it’s a bold declaration from the Church and, without any miracle, I don’t understand how we could be so sure. I’m not saying they aren’t in heaven – I just don’t understand the line of thought.

If anyone could enlighten me, I’d appreciate that. I started another thread on this subject before and no one was able to clear it up for me.

 

[masondoggy]

From the Ask an Apologist section

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=14932

Thank you for posting this. This is very important so I think it needs to be C & P here:

**Sin is forgiven the instant there is true repentance and conversion of heart. For a Catholic, evidence of repentance and conversion includes the understanding that it is normatively necessary for him to confess his mortal sins to a priest as soon as is possible for him to do so. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

** ** Quote:
“Individual, integral confession and absolution remain the only ordinary way for the faithful to reconcile themselves with God and the Church, unless physical or moral impossibility excuses from this kind of confession.” There are profound reasons for this. Christ is at work in each of the sacraments. He personally addresses every sinner: “My son, your sins are forgiven.” He is the physician tending each one of the sick who need him to cure them. He raises them up and reintegrates them into fraternal communion. Personal confession is thus the form most expressive of reconciliation with God and with the Church (CCC 1484; emphasis added).
Note that the Catechism says that sacramental confession is “the only ordinary way” for reconciliation with God, “unless physical or moral impossibility” prevents it. Simply put, this means that if a Catholic dies before he can go to confession for his mortal sins, as he intended to do, not having been capable of going to confession will not be held against him. If he is seriously injured but recovers, he would then go to confession as soon as he is well enough to do so.
**
Thistle, I know you mean well but the CA Apologists disagree with you.

Yes, perfect contrition is necessary. But I would argue that usually when a sinner repents for a serious sin and has the intention to get to Confession, perfect contrition is present. If it is NOT, the sinner hasn’t gotten to that point yet, that doesn’t mean that in God’s Mercy, he will not work in that soul in that split second before death to lead them to perfect contrition. This is consistent with the message of Mercy Jesus gave to St. Faustina, a fully approved private revelation of the Church.

I read that entire diary at least 3 times and over and over Jesus emphasized the importance of praying the Chaplet in the presence of the dying, especially hardened sinners and he promised to stand between that soul and his eternal Father as a merciful Savior. Not once did he add, well, I’ll only do that if they made an intentional Act of Contrition while they were still conscious. Not once.

So yes, official Catholic doctrine teaches objectively that a soul that dies in the state of mortal sin goes straight to Hell. This is true and I would never argue otherwise. And yes, Jesus gave the Church the Sacrament of Confession to the Church as the ORDINARY means of forgiveness of mortal sins. But it is also completely consistent with both teachings to say that Jesus works in each soul in danger of dying in a state of mortal sin to bring them back to Him. He desires the salvation of every soul.

We don’t know what happens between God and a soul in that split second before death. I would bet my life that God does everything possible to win that soul back to Him before it’s too late.

This is completely consistent with the message of The Divine Mercy.

 

[Cristiano]

Thank you for posting this. This is very important so I think it needs to be C & P here:

Sin is forgiven the instant there is true repentance and conversion of heart. For a Catholic, evidence of repentance and conversion includes the understanding that it is normatively necessary for him to confess his mortal sins to a priest as soon as is possible for him to do so. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

** Quote:
“Individual, integral confession and absolution remain the only ordinary way** for the faithful to reconcile themselves with God and the Church, unless physical or moral impossibility excuses from this kind of confession.” There are profound reasons for this. Christ is at work in each of the sacraments. He personally addresses every sinner: “My son, your sins are forgiven.” He is the physician tending each one of the sick who need him to cure them. He raises them up and reintegrates them into fraternal communion. Personal confession is thus the form most expressive of reconciliation with God and with the Church (CCC 1484; emphasis added).
Note that the Catechism says that sacramental confession is “the only ordinary way” for reconciliation with God, “unless physical or moral impossibility” prevents it. Simply put, this means that if a Catholic dies before he can go to confession for his mortal sins, as he intended to do, not having been capable of going to confession will not be held against him. If he is seriously injured but recovers, he would then go to confession as soon as he is well enough to do so.

Thistle, I know you mean well but the CA Apologists disagree with you.

**Yes, perfect contrition is necessary. But I would argue that usually when a sinner repents for a serious sin and has the intention to get to Confession, perfect contrition is present. **If it is NOT, the sinner hasn’t gotten to that point yet, that doesn’t mean that in God’s Mercy, he will not work in that soul in that split second before death to lead them to perfect contrition. This is consistent with the message of Mercy Jesus gave to St. Faustina, a fully approved private revelation of the Church.

I read that entire diary at least 3 times and over and over Jesus emphasized the importance of praying the Chaplet in the presence of the dying, especially hardened sinners and he promised to stand between that soul and his eternal Father as a merciful Savior. Not once did he add, well, I’ll only do that if they made an intentional Act of Contrition while they were still conscious. Not once.

So yes, official Catholic doctrine teaches objectively that a soul that dies in the state of mortal sin goes straight to Hell. This is true and I would never argue otherwise. And yes, Jesus gave the Church the Sacrament of Confession to the Church as the ORDINARY means of forgiveness of mortal sins. But it is also completely consistent with both teachings to say that Jesus works in each soul in danger of dying in a state of mortal sin to bring them back to Him. He desires the salvation of every soul.

We don’t know what happens between God and a soul in that split second before death. I would bet my life that God does everything possible to win that soul back to Him before it’s too late.

This is completely consistent with the message of The Divine Mercy.

I put in bold a part where I disagree with you but I would like to hear your argument to show that you are correct. I am asking that because a lot of people are trying to make a general rule of a extraordinary possibility. I also do not like the logic that the apologist implied at the end of her post when she said “Simply put, this means that if a Catholic dies before he can go to confession for his mortal sins, as he intended to do, not having been capable of going to confession will not be held against him.” In the context of the post it might appear that the fact of lack confession not being held against him implies that forgiveness is granted. That is possible but not universally true.

 

[englishredrose]

Our God is a loving and understanding God and will have seen the whole situation and the priest on board the Titanic will not have gone to hell based on that he hadn’t been able to have his own confession heard. The same as with if any of us die - we will not go to hell for not having our confessions heard… Peace be with you

 

[Cristiano]

Our God is a loving and understanding God and will have seen the whole situation and the priest on board the Titanic will not have gone to hell based on that he hadn’t been able to have his own confession heard. The same as with if any of us die - we will not go to hell for not having our confessions heard…. Peace be with you

What you are saying here goes clearly against the teachings of the Church. Your statement implies universal salvation and that is an heresy.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

You are assuming that God makes a distinction between perfect and imperfect contrition.

That is completely wrong. You obviously don’t know the difference between perfect contrition and imperfect contrition.
In both cases you are sorry for your sins. In both cases you have to go to Confession.
The difference is that if you die before getting Confession and you have made an act of perfect contrition (i.e. main motivation being sorry for offending God) your sins are forgiven and you are saved but if you are on the way to Confession having not made any act of contrition or having made an act of imperfect contrition (i.e. main motivation being fear of going to Hell) then you die before getting to Confession your sins are not forgiven and you go to Hell.

 

[Cristiano]

You are assuming that God makes a distinction between perfect and imperfect contrition.

Yes, the Church teaches that.

 

[ValPal]

What you are saying here goes clearly against the teachings of the Church. Your statement implies universal salvation and that is an heresy.

I readily admit I can’t even begin to wrap my mind around the logic in this thread. The priest could jump on a lifeboat and save himself so he can go to confession at a later date. Doing so guarantees one less person survives, and that others go without having there confessions heard. However, the priest forgoes this, ultimately losing his life. The priests stays behind, saving others in Christ’s name, and acts In Persona Christi. After acting In Persona Christi, he goes straight to Hell.

So, are we to conclude that the priest should forgo saving others? Following the logic of this thread, the priest shouldn’t waste his time with others and should worry about his own salvation first and foremost.

Apparently acting in Persona Christi and foregoing one’s life for the sake of Christ isn’t enough for some people. However, it is for Christ, if we are to believe the infallible truth that proceeded from His mouth.

 

[Cristiano]

I readily admit I can’t even begin to wrap my mind around the logic in this thread. The priest could jump on a lifeboat and save himself so he can go to confession at a later date. Doing so guarantees one less person survives, and that others go without having there confessions heard. However, the priest forgoes this, ultimately losing his life. The priests stays behind, saving others in Christ’s name, and acts In Persona Christi. After acting In Persona Christi, he goes straight to Hell.

So, are we to conclude that the priest should forgo saving others? Following the logic of this thread, the priest shouldn’t waste his time with others and should worry about his own salvation first and foremost.

Apparently acting in Persona Christi and foregoing one’s life for the sake of Christ isn’t enough for some people. However, it is for Christ, if we are to believe the infallible truth that proceeded from His mouth.

I understand why you cannot follow the logic in this thread. The reason is that there are two or three separate arguments going on and people do not want to make the connection. The first argument is that anyone that dies in a state of mortal sin goes to hell. That is true but we also have to add the qualifier that it must be unrepented sin. We also have to add the qualifier of what repented sin is, does it come from perfect or imperfect contrition? We also have the argument that the Bible says that anyone that gives his life for God will be with him. Finally we have the ordinary means of forgiveness through confession but sometimes we also have extraordinary means that are known to God alone. The two biggest mistake that I see here is that people are entrenched in their specifics without trying to reconcile the teachings of the Church in accordance with the methods of the Church and that they are trying to make hasty generalizations of extraordinary specific cases to universal rules.

 

[Cristiano]

I put in bold a part where I disagree with you but I would like to hear your argument to show that you are correct. I am asking that because a lot of people are trying to make a general rule of a extraordinary possibility. I also do not like the logic that the apologist implied at the end of her post when she said “Simply put, this means that if a Catholic dies before he can go to confession for his mortal sins, as he intended to do, not having been capable of going to confession will not be held against him.” In the context of the post it might appear that the fact of lack confession not being held against him implies that forgiveness is granted. That is possible but not universally true.

I apologize to everybody here. I just noticed that there are a lot of sentences in bold plus the one that I put in bold.:banghead::banghead:

I disagree only with the assumption that states :“I would argue that usually when a sinner repents for a serious sin and has the intention to get to Confession, perfect contrition is present.”

 

[coachkfan1]

I think that this is a very deep theological question that no human being can definatively answer. There is One who decides a person’s eternal fate and we are not Him. God’s Word says, “I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.” We know that God is just. We know that He is love. I believe that He wants us all to go to Confession frequently, but I also believe that as God He can do what He wants. As the psalmist says, “We have escaped as a bird from the fowler’s snare.”

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

That has not stopped them from trying.

I think that this is a very deep theological question that no human being can definatively answer.

 

[masondoggy]

I apologize to everybody here. I just noticed that there are a lot of sentences in bold plus the one that I put in bold.:banghead::banghead:

I disagree only with the assumption that states :“I would argue that usually when a sinner repents for a serious sin and has the intention to get to Confession, perfect contrition is present.”

This is my opinion and you are certainly free to disagree with it.

 

[hilde_the_dog]

So far what I have learned: 1) if Satan wants you in hell he have a dumptruck bump you off on your way to Church to give your imperfectly contrite confession 2) our prayers for the dead seem to be moot and were the actions of the Judas Maccabee

“But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had fallen.f 41They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden. 42* Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.g 43He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection in mind; 44for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. 45But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. **46Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be absolved from their sin. **” 2 Maccabees Chapter 12

So even if we die in a state of mortal sin (clearly idolitry is ), there may yet be hope.

 

[Cristiano]

So far what I have learned: 1) if Satan wants you in hell he have a dumptruck bump you off on your way to Church to give your imperfectly contrite confession…

Satan can wish whatever he wants but he cannot do anything that God does not allow him to do.