What if Adam, Eve, and Abel did not sin but Cain sinned?

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Pythagoras

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What happens if Adam, Eve, and Abel did not sin in the world but Cain sinned? So what happens to their descendants then? Will it be like the mortal humans and the undying Elves in Lord of the Rings?
 
Then the descendents of Cain conceived after his sin, would be mortal and born with original sin, presumably. He could only pass on the nature he had, so he would have lost the preternatural graces.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas
 
Pythagoras said:
What happens if Adam, Eve, and Abel did not sin in the world but Cain sinned? So what happens to their descendants then? Will it be like the mortal humans and the undying Elves in Lord of the Rings?
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RU punking us?
 
Where is the logic of your question? As it is contrary to OT Scriptures how do you propose to find an answer? Peace.
 
Pythagoras said:
What happens if Adam, Eve, and Abel did not sin in the world but Cain sinned? So what happens to their descendants then? Will it be like the mortal humans and the undying Elves in Lord of the Rings?
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I’ve always wondered the same thing.
 
If Adam and Eve did not sin, what makes you believe that there would have been an Cain or an Abel?
 
Latinitas said:
Then the descendents of Cain conceived after his sin, would be mortal and born with original sin, presumably. He could only pass on the nature he had, so he would have lost the preternatural graces.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas
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More probable scenario
 
Mary_Estelle said:
Where is the logic of your question? As it is contrary to OT Scriptures how do you propose to find an answer? Peace.
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Well maybe some forumers could have read some catholic books out there written by a saint which I still have not known or read. I hope they can share what they know just in case

Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich for example saw in a vision our first parents where their bodies where covered by beautiful shining light in the Garden of Eden. After they sinned, this shining light covering their bodies disappeared.

There is also the book “Mystical City of God” by Venerable Mary Agreda which details the events in Heaven that led to the rebellion of Lucifer.
 
Still not a logical reasoning. How could there be a saint or a Catholic explanation written before the creation of Adam and Eve???

Just to add; the visions and the book(s) were “after” and not before so they could not be “forerunners.” You could try your hand at asking about something more plausible because you obviously have an inquiring mind and intelligence. Peace.
 
Mary_Estelle said:
Still not a logical reasoning. How could there be a saint or a Catholic explanation written before the creation of Adam and Eve???

Just to add; the visions and the book(s) were “after” and not before so they could not be “forerunners.” You could try your hand at asking about something more plausible because you obviously have an inquiring mind and intelligence. Peace.
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:confused:
 
Mary_Estelle said:
Still not a logical reasoning. How could there be a saint or a Catholic explanation written before the creation of Adam and Eve???

Just to add; the visions and the book(s) were “after” and not before so they could not be “forerunners.” You could try your hand at asking about something more plausible because you obviously have an inquiring mind and intelligence. Peace.
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Mary Estelle,

Are you saying that just because something in history has happened, that it’s illogical to have curiousity about the subject about what if there was a different course of action taken? I’m asking sincerely because I don’t want to misunderstand what you’re saying.
 
It’s good to be curious. That is how we got here from there. Some questions can never be answered by Gods’ children. We were not meant to eat from the Tree of Knowledge as Adam and Eve did, and took away innocence. Cain and Able were the result of the loss and Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden. If you believe in the OT, even if in only parts, you can see the original question has no merit and can not be resolved by us, the creations of God. While a lot of the OT is historical and can be verified, much of it is presented to us by faith, Spirit and the Word of God. I suppose a person can fantasize anything they want or make things true in their own minds, but beneath all the layers of the OT, there is a foundation of logic. The OT has fallen out of favor as a “must read,” but oh, what a book it is. I think we should dig into the OT a little deeper, just as gold and diamond miners do, and seek the wealth of history AND logic. Peace
 
Pythagoras said:
Well maybe some forumers could have read some catholic books out there written by a saint which I still have not known or read. I hope they can share what they know just in case

Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich for example saw in a vision our first parents where their bodies where covered by beautiful shining light in the Garden of Eden. After they sinned, this shining light covering their bodies disappeared.

There is also the book “Mystical City of God” by Venerable Mary Agreda which details the events in Heaven that led to the rebellion of Lucifer.
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Mystical City of God. Excellent book. It is hard to find. Mine is a “photo copy” that I found in religious bookstore dealing with rare books.
 
Pathagoras said “forerunners.” There could not be books or literary writings before the creation of Adam and Eve. As far as I know we have no history prior to that unless you are reading the rocks of time. While The Mystical City of God is a great book, it is a book that is not a forerunner. I hope I am understanding the poster correctly and am not confusing him. Peace.
 
Evania said:
Mary Estelle,

Are you saying that just because something in history has happened, that it’s illogical to have curiousity about the subject about what if there was a different course of action taken? I’m asking sincerely because I don’t want to misunderstand what you’re saying.
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What I am trying to say that we have historical information, history is generally written by man, after the facts, and not always accurate. We will never know if there could be any other course of action or history, as we have not invented a time machine. We know of the very moment and then it too is gone-history, and can only speculate the next moment, let alone tomorrow. It is moot to try to guess “what if” because what was can not be captured, put in a bottle and shaken, to see what happens. As I write this-it is also history. Peace.
P. S. If you happen to invent a time machine, I would like to go back and find a lost check for $121.00 bucks.😉
 
Pythagoras said:
What happens if Adam, Eve, and Abel did not sin in the world but Cain sinned? So what happens to their descendants then? Will it be like the mortal humans and the undying Elves in Lord of the Rings?
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Adam is the only person who committed the Original Sin.

So, may I ask what kind of sins are being attributed to Eve, Cain, and the Elves? I know you said that Adam and Eve did not sin. Considering the humans I know, what is the basis for the idea of a sinless Adam and Eve? Just curious.

Small bit of information. When Adam committed the Original Sin, his descendants lost the gift of “undying” that is immortality. Please, could there be some confusion about the heredity of the Elves?
 
Mary_Estelle said:
It’s good to be curious. That is how we got here from there. Some questions can never be answered by Gods’ children. We were not meant to eat from the Tree of Knowledge as Adam and Eve did, and took away innocence. Cain and Able were the result of the loss and Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden. If you believe in the OT, even if in only parts, you can see the original question has no merit and can not be resolved by us, the creations of God. While a lot of the OT is historical and can be verified, much of it is presented to us by faith, Spirit and the Word of God. I suppose a person can fantasize anything they want or make things true in their own minds, but beneath all the layers of the OT, there is a foundation of logic. The OT has fallen out of favor as a “must read,” but oh, what a book it is. I think we should dig into the OT a little deeper, just as gold and diamond miners do, and seek the wealth of history AND logic. Peace
Click to expand...
As far as I can tell, there are only three chapters in the Old Testament which have straight out answers to some original questions. Please, what are your questions?
 
grannymh, how did elves get into the mix?? I thought that was Santa’s domain. I didn’t ask the original question, but I am full of questions on a daily basis that not of the spiritual nature!!😃
 
Greetings:

I wrote a short science fiction story along these lines (2010)…The Prodigal Planet. They (this other planet) had a only a portion of their civilization that “fell”.

God’s peace,
Ed
 
Mary_Estelle said:
grannymh, how did elves get into the mix?? I thought that was Santa’s domain. I didn’t ask the original question, but I am full of questions on a daily basis that not of the spiritual nature!!😃
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The undying Elves are characters in a fiction book I never read. :o

From what I know about the Garden of Eden, there is always the question – What would happen if Adam did not commit the Original Sin? How would he and Eve, and their immortal descendants get from planet earth to the gates of heaven without bodily death?

Apparently, post 1 considers these undying human descendants like the Elves in Lord of the Rings. It is my understanding that elves appear in folklore. Some are friendly to people and some are not. They certainly are needed by Santa. 👍

The principal error in post 1 is having Cain commit the Original Sin. Cain is definitely not the original human person in the Garden of Eden. A secondary error is the possible implication that non-human humans can exist like elves.
 
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