What if ANY evidence exist? 2 Questions

[PJM]

Dear Friends in Christ,

[1]

What if ANY evidence exist to support claims of JUST:

One True God

Only One True Faith

& God’s desire for One Chosen people and Jesus Desire for Just One Church?

[2]
AND what evidence exist to DISPROVE this position?

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[poche]

It stands to reason from the complexity, beauty, and intricacy of the creation that there could be only one lawgiver and creator. If there could be more than one it would be total chaos.

 

[poche]

There can be only one true faith because there can be only one answer to the following question; 1 + 1 = ?
If you come up with any other answer than two the answer would be wrong.

 

[rossum]

It stands to reason from the complexity, beauty, and intricacy of the creation that there could be only one lawgiver and creator. If there could be more than one it would be total chaos.

Why? There is a creator-of-cheetahs who created cheetahs to hunt gazelles and there is a creator-of-gazelles who created gazelles to avoid being eaten by cheetahs. Many other pairs indicate two different designers working at cross-purposes: humans and cholera for example.

As to “one lawgiver”, is it allowed for humans to eat pork? What about eating beef? Different scriptures will give different answers to those questions. Jain scripture says both are against the law.

Looking at the many different religions (and none) we see today, then “total chaos” is not far of the mark.

$0.02

rossum

 

[rossum]

There can be only one true faith because there can be only one answer to the following question; 1 + 1 = ?
If you come up with any other answer than two the answer would be wrong.

That is a common example, but it is not a good one:

• 1 + 1 = 1 in symbolic logic.

• 1 + 1 = 11 in number base 1.

• 1 + 1 = 10 in number base 2 (binary).

• 1 + 1 = 2 in number bases 3 and above.

The correct answer depends on the unstated assumptions made around the question. That is why mathematicians are always very careful to specify all the relevant conditions. Changing the conditions can change the answer.

rossum

 

[poche]

Why? There is a creator-of-cheetahs who created cheetahs to hunt gazelles and there is a creator-of-gazelles who created gazelles to avoid being eaten by cheetahs. Many other pairs indicate two different designers working at cross-purposes: humans and cholera for example.

As to “one lawgiver”, is it allowed for humans to eat pork? What about eating beef? Different scriptures will give different answers to those questions. Jain scripture says both are against the law.

Looking at the many different religions (and none) we see today, then “total chaos” is not far of the mark.

$0.02

rossum

It was the God who created the whole ecosystem where the gazelles eat the grass and provide the food for the cheetahs. It is not just the tiny details that He created but the whole t hat He created.
If you want to eat pork or beef tehn go ahead. St Teresa of Avila said, “Eat what tastes good.”

 

[poche]

That is a common example, but it is not a good one:

• 1 + 1 = 1 in symbolic logic.

• 1 + 1 = 11 in number base 1.

• 1 + 1 = 10 in number base 2 (binary).

• 1 + 1 = 2 in number bases 3 and above.

The correct answer depends on the unstated assumptions made around the question. That is why mathematicians are always very careful to specify all the relevant conditions. Changing the conditions can change the answer.

rossum

even so the final answer is still 2.

 

[Thom18]

Why? There is a creator-of-cheetahs who created cheetahs to hunt gazelles and there is a creator-of-gazelles who created gazelles to avoid being eaten by cheetahs. Many other pairs indicate two different designers working at cross-purposes: humans and cholera for example.

How does the existence of pairs supposedly disprove the existence of a single creator? Is a single creator simply not powerful enough to create both predator and prey? It’s as if to say that Van Gogh couldn’t have painted both Wheat Field with Sower and Wheat Field with Reaper because one portrays scattering, and the other collecting.

 

[rossum]

It was the God who created the whole ecosystem where the gazelles eat the grass and provide the food for the cheetahs. It is not just the tiny details that He created but the whole t hat He created.

No, it was Amaterasu who created the world. It says so in the Nihongi.

If you want to eat pork or beef tehn go ahead. St Teresa of Avila said, “Eat what tastes good.”

Then Allah will smite you, and all the Jain Tirthankaraas will see that you are foolish.

You are making some huge assumptions here, and you are not providing any support for those assumptions.

rossum

 

[rossum]

even so the final answer is still 2.

Another assertion without supporting evidence. The mathematical answer depends on various unstated assumptions. To be mathematically correct you need to explicitly state those assumptions.

rossum

 

[rossum]

How does the existence of pairs supposedly disprove the existence of a single creator?

That is not what I claim. The existence of those pairs contradicts the necessity of a single creator. There may be many creators, as we can easily observe. Leonardo da Vinci created the Mona Lisa. That does not mean that Leonardo had to have created St. Paul’s Cathedral. He didn’t, Christopher Wren did that.

Observably multiple creators are possible. Hence the assumption of a single creator needs additional evidence. It cannot just be assumed.

rossum

 

[steve_b]

Dear Friends in Christ,

[1]

What if ANY evidence exist to support claims of JUST:

One True God

Who else lays claim to all that exists.?

PJM:

Only One True Faith

The one true God lays claim to one true faith in Him.

PJM:

& God’s desire for One Chosen people and Jesus Desire for Just One Church?

(all emphasis mine)
Jn 17:
16 They are not of the world, even as ***I am not of the world. ***17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. 18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth. 20 “I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me. 24 Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, *to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world. * 25 O righteous Father, the world has not known thee, but I have known thee; and these know that thou hast sent me. 26 I made known to them thy name, and I will make it known, that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.”

PJM:

[2]
AND what evidence exist to DISPROVE this position?

God Bless you,
Patrick

cynics to the truth abound. Their cynicism will end at their death, where there will be no more arguments.

 

[Thom18]

That is not what I claim. The existence of those pairs contradicts the necessity of a single creator.

How so?

 

[rossum]

How so?

You cannot just assume a single creator. Antagonistic pairs are equally well explained by two (or more) antagonistic creators, somewhat along the lines of Zoroastrianism.

If you want to propose a single creator then you have to show more reasons than have been provided so far.

rossum

 

[PJM]

It stands to reason from the complexity, beauty, and intricacy of the creation that there could be only one lawgiver and creator. If there could be more than one it would be total chaos.

I ABSOLUTELY Agree so why then do sooooooo MANY miss it?

 

[PJM]

There can be only one true faith because there can be only one answer to the following question; 1 + 1 = ?
If you come up with any other answer than two the answer would be wrong.

OK Again I agree so WHY do so many miss it?

 

[PJM]

Why? There is a creator-of-cheetahs who created cheetahs to hunt gazelles and there is a creator-of-gazelles who created gazelles to avoid being eaten by cheetahs. Many other pairs indicate two different designers working at cross-purposes: humans and cholera for example.

As to “one lawgiver”, is it allowed for humans to eat pork? What about eating beef? Different scriptures will give different answers to those questions. Jain scripture says both are against the law.

Looking at the many different religions (and none) we see today, then “total chaos” is not far of the mark.

$0.02

rossum

Thank you!

So then HOW do you explain this?

My friend have you ever been exposed to the One Infallible Rule for right understanding of the Bible?

Never Ever; can, may or DOES
One verse, passage or teaching have the power or authority to
Invalidate, make void or override another Verse, passage or teaching:

Were this even the slightest possibility; [it’s NOT!] it would render the entire Bible useless to teach or learn Christ Faith”

2Peter 1: 19-21
And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20] Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. [21] For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost.

[Douay Catholic Bible explanation]

[20] No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation: This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one’s private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise. End Quotes

“Whenever something is good it does not depend on us getting our way, but on God getting His way, and whether we do God’s Will depends on us [humbly] loving God. Moreover to love God we must [actually] know God, [not just know OF God].” Bread of Life booklet January 9, 2016”Mt 7:21

 

[PJM]

who else lays claim to all that exists.?

The one true god lays claim to one true faith in him.

(all emphasis mine)
jn 17:
16 they are not of the world, even as ***i am not of the world. ***17 sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. 18 as thou didst send me into the world, so i have sent them into the world. 19 and for their sake i consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth. 20 “i do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, father, art in me, and i in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 the glory which thou hast given me i have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 i in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me. 24 father, i desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where i am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world. 25 o righteous father, the world has not known thee, but i have known thee; and these know that thou hast sent me. 26 i made known to them thy name, and i will make it known, that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them, and i in them.”

cynics to the truth abound. Their cynicism will end at their death, where there will be no more arguments.

i love john 17, & quote it often, but is it actually proof of god; one faith and one church?

Gby

 

[PJM]

You cannot just assume a single creator. Antagonistic pairs are equally well explained by two (or more) antagonistic creators, somewhat along the lines of Zoroastrianism.

If you want to propose a single creator then you have to show more reasons than have been provided so far.

rossum

So my friend, consider this:

PLace 100 people in the room and ask them to design the universe…

Would there be such a recognized ORDER to THEIR ideas? Chances are BILLIONS to 1 NOT

 

[Thom18]

You cannot just assume a single creator. Antagonistic pairs are equally well explained by two (or more) antagonistic creators, somewhat along the lines of Zoroastrianism.

If you want to propose a single creator then you have to show more reasons than have been provided so far.

rossum

Well, then, wouldn’t it also follow that you can’t assume more than one creator by the existence of antagonistic pairs? Who’s to say that the same creator who made the lion didn’t also make the gazelle?

Of course, I didn’t claim that the existence of a single creator is self evident from any one argument.