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Righteousone
Guest
How would all you sceptics feel then? Would you feel you had no faith in Our Lord? What exactly would you do if you knew they were real for a fact?
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SyCarl
Guest
I don’t know that we can ever know with certainty that such appariotions are true. I inherently distrust such things. Paul tells us that:
Although I am not a Catholic, I think that the Church is right in not requiring belief even in approved apparitions.
Even if such appearances are accompanied with apparent miraculous signs such as the sun at Fatima, Jesus also tells us that:
While great good may appear to come from such apparitions, the devil is a master of deception and can easily inject a subtle falsehood in the midst of a mass of good.
Although I am not a Catholic, I think that the Church is right in not requiring belief even in approved apparitions.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
I believe. throughout the Sacred Scripture we see many cases of apparitions of angels, burning bush, God speaking to men. why do we doubt now? why wouldnt Our God be sending messengers to His church today? i have no doubt. the Church also is carefull about it and always test the spirit. I believe the Lord will never abandon His church and if it is necessary to help His church this way He will do it.
JESUS I TRUST IN YOU. St Faustina.
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Mirdath
Guest
If I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt they were true, real, and accurate? I’d believe in God. Worship him – perhaps. Honestly, I’d have quite a few questions for any deity which made itself undeniably manifest before I’d bow down and worship.
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HashemEchad
Guest
I’m not a Christian, but that quote from 1 Corinthians is right on target. You might consider what a religious Jew would focus on, which is Deuteronomy 13, which speaks of signs and wonders that come to pass, after which (Jews) would be told to follow another religious faith…you could say that is our 1 Corinthians!
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wisdomseeker
Guest
St. Alphonsus (c. +1745):
“The deeper a soul has fallen into sin, the more it is bound down by the powers of Hell…” (33 Doctors of the Church, p. 626.)
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Mirdath
Guest
And? If you have something to say about my salvation, damnation, or likelihood of either, grow a pair and say it. Don’t hide behind the pat expressions of saints. Courage! I won’t bite your head off if you tell me I’m going to hell because I don’t take things at face value!
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
What if they were 
? There can be an apparition that is truly an apparition, yet is not truly Christian. Even an apparition is true in both senses, that does not guarantee the perfection of statements attributed to it: an apparition can be real & edifying & from God, without the words attributed to it having any value at all. Just as a lying vision can “speak” what is true.
Such phenomena are of no value compared to less exciting things like obeying God in the round of daily life. Unfortunately, people tend to confuse the spectacular with the valuable. A child obeying its parents out of love does more to build up the Church than ten thousand apparitions, visionaries & apparition-hunters.As to what I would do: I hope I’d ignore them. I [hope that I] have faith in Christ; I don’t need or want apparitions
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Whether Apparitions are true or not is irrelevant to us Catholics; Our faith is not dependent on them.
However, if Apparition are true, it turns the Protestant faith upside-down. The pressure is on them. That’s why they have so much passion to disprove them.
I’ve seen some websites with claims that Our Lady of Fatima is not Mary, but the devil in disguise. Go figure.
However, if Apparition are true, it turns the Protestant faith upside-down. The pressure is on them. That’s why they have so much passion to disprove them.
I’ve seen some websites with claims that Our Lady of Fatima is not Mary, but the devil in disguise. Go figure.
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Hesychios
Guest
This is absolutely correct.
And it should be remembered by all. As an exercise, every Catholic should approach the Faith as if none of the apparitions had ever really happened. The Faith of the individual should be strong enough that it does not actually need them.
Father Groeschell had an excellent book on the subject. I can’t remember the numbers or percentages now but the overwhelming majority of reported apparitions are rejected by the church, and for good reason.
The reason the church does not require it’s members to believe in any apparition is because that would be contrary to the longstanding rule that the age of revelation has closed. There is always a possibility that any apparition, even Fatima, Lourdes etc. may be falsely attributed to Mary, even if there is no error detected in the theological point addressed.
All the church can formally say is that the apparition declares nothing contrary to the Faith, and may be edifying. It cannot say “we know this is the real deal”.
This is one reason why discussions over religious issues can never allow the “because Our Lady says so” argument. We know precious little of what she thought or said in life, and know nothing for certain about what she may have said since. She may never say anything contrary to the Faith as already established, but belief in her apparition or words cannot be mandated for obvious reasons, so the proper argument is to go directly to the source of that belief (Canons more than anything, plus decrees, apocryphal literature and patristic quotations).
Michael
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Thing
Guest
How would the apparition at Knock be a vision from the devil?
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NDfan
Guest
I don’t dis-believe them. I just take them with a grain of salt. Similar to people claiming Mary is in their toast or taken the shape in their door.
I also don’t rule out the work of satan. Some of these apparitions like Fatima claim that Mary is the path to GOD now. Sounds like satan to me trying to lead Christians away from GOD. It also had a strong political connotation to it which doesn’t make sense. It was also in an area that was depressed economically and then had a great influx of tourism after.
As far as would I doubt my faith? There’s no possible way for that to happen.
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inJESUS
Guest
I do not see a difference between Catholics and Protestants in this regard since I can understand from the quotes provided in this thread that apparitions is Biblical, but not to be believed at face value so i guess the question is not about whether apparitions are possible (since it is Biblically mentioned), but about whether they are of divine origin or not…in this case, both should assess the message.
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Valke2
Guest
I’d have to assume that God sent Mary to remind us that He is the God of Israel.
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Righteousone
Guest
Yes Thing, and also Fatima, Garabandal, Guadalupe, Lourdes, Egypt, and possibly Medjugorgie. These are not from Satan…please people…I think you use satan as a means of an excuse, because your faith in apparitions is so small. It’s pitiful really.
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Righteousone
Guest
And if you believe this website Mr. Zeaiter, I have some swamp water in Florida I’d like to sell ya…
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Righteousone
Guest
Can’t you people see the signs that Jesus sending his mother is showing you? She is appearing to let you know God exists.
I truly don’t understand. How would apparitions turn the “Protestant” faith upside down? Sorry, I missed the part about having passion to disprove them.
Chick is not a credible source, even for most noncatholics.
Jon
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Goth_Catholic
Guest
Mirdath, your going to hell
But so are most people, (inculding Catholics). Our Lady warned us of this.
Although, I read an interesting story tonight about a young woman who was possessed. The demon inside her told the protestant minister trying to exorcise her that he was worst then the demon, because even the demon belived in the body of Christ in the Euchrist, yet the minister denied it, and therefore denied Christ. The demons also laughed when the ministers tried to use protestant communion to cast out the demons. Yet when the Euchrist was used, the demons were forced out. Food for thought (No pun intended)
The apparitions are true, and for those who deny the way, the truth and the life, there is a fate worse then death.
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Valke2
Guest
Maybe she just wants to go to shul.
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