What if Apparitions of Mary are true?

[HashemEchad]

Maybe she just wants to go to shul.

Being a Jewish woman, she’d have to sit in the balcony, or behind the mechitzah, with me!

This is one Catholic doctrine I see nothing wrong with, the idea that Jesus would do anything him mom asked of him, which is why Catholics will ask her for things. Everyone knows Jewish sons are wrapped around their mother’s apron strings as it is!

 

[planter654]

Can’t you people see the signs that Jesus sending his mother is showing you? She is appearing to let you know God exists.

Happy are those who believe and yet have not seen!

Did Jesus not say this evil generation, there would be no sign, but only the sign of Jonah?

Did Satan not appear as an “Angel to Jesus”. So if Jesus said there would be “NO” other sign, then are we saying we do not believe in his Word! Can Satan not work evil miracles also?

Those who believe, believe, whether Our Mother appears or not appears. Right? If we need proof are we not like Thomas?

Jesus did say what would happen at the “end of times”. Jesus said;" He would circumzise “our hearts and all shall know me”! Jesus, himself will teach us in the end and we would need— NO— one to teach us, right?

God Bless

 

[wisdomseeker]

Happy are those who believe and yet have not seen!

Did Jesus not say this evil generation, there would be no sign, but only the sign of Jonah?

Did Satan not appear as an “Angel to Jesus”. So if Jesus said there would be “NO” other sign, then are we saying we do not believe in his Word! Can Satan not work evil miracles also?

Those who believe, believe, whether Our Mother appears or not appears. Right? If we need proof are we not like Thomas?

Jesus did say what would happen at the “end of times”. Jesus said;" He would circumzise “our hearts and all shall know me”! Jesus, himself will teach us in the end and we would need— NO— one to teach us, right?

God Bless

This sign that Jesus was talking about was about Him. when jews ask for sign to prove to them that He was the Messiah. then Jesus told them no sign will be given to you but that of Jonah. Jonah stayed 3 days in the belly of the whale so would be the Son of man would stay 3 days under the earth and He would rise again.

God bless!

 

[JCismywingman]

I don’t dis-believe them. I just take them with a grain of salt. Similar to people claiming Mary is in their toast or taken the shape in their door.

I also don’t rule out the work of satan. Some of these apparitions like Fatima claim that Mary is the path to GOD now. Sounds like satan to me trying to lead Christians away from GOD. It also had a strong political connotation to it which doesn’t make sense. It was also in an area that was depressed economically and then had a great influx of tourism after.

As far as would I doubt my faith? There’s no possible way for that to happen.

I’m not absolutely sure, but if Fatima isn’t “an approved apparition”, why then did catechists teach us about it? If i’m not wrong, the kids that Our Lady appeared to were on the way to being canonized by JPII?

Personally i don’t think these apparitions are turning Christians away from God. I mean, JPII did introduce the icon of Our Lady to add to WYD in addition to the WYD cross right?

Cheers…

 

[SyCarl]

I’m not absolutely sure, but if Fatima isn’t “an approved apparition”, why then did catechists teach us about it? If i’m not wrong, the kids that Our Lady appeared to were on the way to being canonized by JPII?

Personally i don’t think these apparitions are turning Christians away from God. I mean, JPII did introduce the icon of Our Lady to add to WYD in addition to the WYD cross right?

Cheers…

They may not be turning people away from God, but at least to me they do contain error. For example the apparition at Fatima is reported to have siad the following:

Make sacrifices for sinners, and say often, especially while making a sacrifice: O Jesus, this is for love of Thee, for the conversion of sinners, and in reparation for offences committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

ewtn.com/fatima/apparitions/July.htm

Pray, pray very much. Make sacrifices for sinners. Many souls go to hell, because no one is willing to help them with sacrifice.

ewtn.com/fatima/apparitions/August.htm

To me these statements can be taken to mean that the offence of sin is against Mary and not God. But worse they seem to indicate that sinners go hell because nobody is sacrificing for them. This would imply that Jesus’ one sacrifice is not sufficient to save sinners. The only sacrifice needed has been made. No sacrifice we could make would prevent someone from going to hell. They would only go to hell because of unbelief. My understanding is that even Catholic doctrine indicates that sacrifices will only help those in purgatory, not those who are going to hell, and that sacrifices can only affect the temporal penalty for sins of which the external punishment has been removed through Christ’s sacrifice, whether through baptism or confession.

 

[planter654]

This sign that Jesus was talking about was about Him. when jews ask for sign to prove to them that He was the Messiah. then Jesus told them no sign will be given to you but that of Jonah. Jonah stayed 3 days in the belly of the whale so would be the Son of man would stay 3 days under the earth and He would rise again.

God bless!

MY pint and understanding exactly I agree with you.

thank you God Bless

 

[Thing]

They may not be turning people away from God, but at least to me they do contain error.

catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=1204

This is the apparition at Knock. The apparition did not speak so no error proceeded from it. Just the vision of the Lamb, the Altar, the Cross and the figures and angels. Where is the devil in this scene?

The Apparition image:
theotokos.org.uk/pages/approved/appariti/knock.html

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

Just a reminder, discussion of UNapproved apparitions is a bannable offense. Stick to those that have been approved.

Thanks!

God bless-

Rachel

 

[Goth_Catholic]

To me these statements can be taken to mean that the offence of sin is against Mary and not God.
It says offences not sins btw, but imagine if you were Jesus and all day long you had to listen to people scorn your mother, in your name none the less. Or even God, who hates to hear any of his creatures mocked and scorned, lest the creature he created perfect so that he could take human form within her. It’s saying that by committing offences against Mary, we are hurting God, which is a sin.
But worse they seem to indicate that sinners go hell because nobody is sacrificing for them. This would imply that Jesus’ one sacrifice is not sufficient to save sinners. The only sacrifice needed has been made. No sacrifice we could make would prevent someone from going to hell. **They would only go to hell because of unbelief. **I’m guessing your a “once saved, always saved” type. It doesn’t take away from the sacrifice of Jesus, to say that sacrifices should be made in order to help sinners, it only strengths it, because by sacrfising for sinners we are carrying out Jesus’s decree to love one another. “Sacrifices” has a broad meaning, it can be something as simple as a prayer. Your last sentance distrubs me, but I imagine it shouldn’t. Know this, Jesus’s death and ressurection did not take sin out of the world, rather it provided deliverence from sin. We are all still sinners, merely acknowleging Christ does not save us. “Not all those who say unto me “Lord, Lord” shall enter the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 7:21
My understanding is that even Catholic doctrine indicates that sacrifices will only help those in purgatory, not those who are going to hell, and that sacrifices can only affect the temporal penalty for sins of which the external punishment has been removed through Christ’s sacrifice, whether through baptism or confession.

For those who are already dead, you are correct. But our Lady is not speaking of the dead, rather she is talking about the living.

 

[SyCarl]

I’m guessing your a “once saved, always saved” type. It doesn’t take away from the sacrifice of Jesus, to say that sacrifices should be made in order to help sinners, it only strengths it, because by sacrfising for sinners we are carrying out Jesus’s decree to love one another. “Sacrifices” has a broad meaning, it can be something as simple as a prayer. Your last sentance distrubs me, but I imagine it shouldn’t. Know this, Jesus’s death and ressurection did not take sin out of the world, rather it provided deliverence from sin. We are all still sinners, merely acknowleging Christ does not save us. “Not all those who say unto me “Lord, Lord” shall enter the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 7:21

For those who are already dead, you are correct. But our Lady is not speaking of the dead, rather she is talking about the living.

I am not a believer in once saved always saved.

It most definitely does take away from Jesus’ sacrifice. We are all sinners and can only be saved because Christ sacrificed Himself and died for us. To say that some other sacrifice is needed before sinners can be saved is certainly wrong. The sacrifice that the Fatima children made was to gird coarse ropes under their clothes to chaff themselves. Such suffering or sacrifice will not help save any sinner. If someone believes in Jesus they are reborn into life and good works will result. Those works don’t save the doer nevermind someone else. If you stop believing you are no longer benefit from Jesus’ sacrifice. If you never had faith you never claimed the atonement made. To be saved you must believe and continue to believe. It is therefore perfectly correct to say that people will go to hell for unbelief.

God does not require any sacrifice on our part to save someone yet the apparition at Fatima says sinners go to hell because there is no one willing to make sacrifice for them. They need no further sacrifice since Jesus’ sacrifice was once for all. There is no longer sacrifice for sin.

 

[Goth_Catholic]

I am not a believer in once saved always saved.

It most definitely does take away from Jesus’ sacrifice. We are all sinners and can only be saved because Christ sacrificed Himself and died for us. To say that some other sacrifice is needed before sinners can be saved is certainly wrong.
Our Lady is by no means underminding Christ’s sacrifice. Nor is she saving that sacrifice is needed for salvation. She is saying that we should make sacrifices to help sinners to repent.
The sacrifice that the Fatima children made was to gird coarse ropes under their clothes to chaff themselves. Such suffering or sacrifice will not help save any sinner.
Oh ye of little faith…
If someone believes in Jesus they are reborn into life and good works will result. Those works don’t save the doer nevermind someone else.
Hilter belived in Jesus. Faith alone will not save you.
If you stop believing you are no longer benefit from Jesus’ sacrifice. If you never had faith you never claimed the atonement made. To be saved you must believe and continue to believe. It is therefore perfectly correct to say that people will go to hell for unbelief.
But not just unbelief
God does not require any sacrifice on our part to save someone yet the apparition at Fatima says sinners go to hell because there is no one willing to make sacrifice for them. They need no further sacrifice since Jesus’ sacrifice was once for all. There is no longer sacrifice for sin.

But there is sacrifice for sinners, so that they may no longer sin.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… Fatima says sinners go to hell because there is no one willing to make sacrifice for them…

Is that a new faith from Fatima? I don’t think so. Catholics have always upheld that teaching.

 

[JCismywingman]

They may not be turning people away from God, but at least to me they do contain error. For example the apparition at Fatima is reported to have siad the following:

ewtn.com/fatima/apparitions/July.htm

ewtn.com/fatima/apparitions/August.htm

To me these statements can be taken to mean that the offence of sin is against Mary and not God. But worse they seem to indicate that sinners go hell because nobody is sacrificing for them. This would imply that Jesus’ one sacrifice is not sufficient to save sinners. The only sacrifice needed has been made. No sacrifice we could make would prevent someone from going to hell. They would only go to hell because of unbelief. My understanding is that even Catholic doctrine indicates that sacrifices will only help those in purgatory, not those who are going to hell, and that sacrifices can only affect the temporal penalty for sins of which the external punishment has been removed through Christ’s sacrifice, whether through baptism or confession.

I understand where you’re coming from, and it’s great to hear all the different points of view.

However, i do wish to add that with every thing that is reported/translated, there are certain inaccuracies that may have creeped in.

I guess if when believing in the prayers you’re making and always remembering that saying the rosary to Mother Mary is for intercession and not worship, that JC made the ultimate and only necessary sacrifice for us, we should all be fine?

It wouldn’t hurt to pray for souls in purgatory.

Sorry to ask, but my original post - which u quoted just disappeared!

 

[Thing]

Rachel Malloy; MODERATOR:

Just a reminder, discussion of UNapproved apparitions is a bannable offense. Stick to those that have been approved.

Thanks!

God bless-

Rachel

Hi Rachel, your post-warning coming hot on the heels of the Knock post might give the impression [to some] that knock is an unapproved apparition. I know this was accidental - but just in case anyone was wondering. The Church has indirectly approved Knock as authentic by the acknowledgements of “Our Lady of Knock” and by visits to the apparition from Church authorities (by Pope John Paul II).

---

"Beside the figures and a little to the right in the center of the gable was a large plain altar. On the altar stood a lamb, facing west and behind the lamb a large cross stood upright. Angels hovered around the lamb for the duration of the Apparition. In St. John’s Book of Revelation 5:6, there is a reference to the lamb, “I saw a Lamb standing, as if it had been slain”. This may be the reason St. John is holding a book, to bring our attention to Revelation.
There were fifteen official witnesses to the Apparition which was enveloped in a heavenly light. They included men, women, and children of various ages. They watched the Apparition for two hours, in the pouring rain and recited the Rosary.
There were two Commissions of Inquiry. One in 1879 and the other in 1936. The verdict of each commission was that the evidence of the witnesses was upright and trustworthy. "

"The personal pilgrimage of Pope John Paul II in 1979, commemorating the centenary of the apparition, inspired an even greater devotion to the Shrine and endorsed the indelible seal of Vatican approval. Mother Teresa of Calcutta visited the Shrine in June of 1993. One and a half million pilgrims visit the Shrine annually. "