What if I Baptize My 5 Year Old Grandson?

[Seatuck]

If this is true then why cannot the OP baptise.

I highly doubt it takes much training to pour water and say the trinitarian forumla.

It isn’t about whether the OP **CAN **baptize. It’s about whether she should. The church does not encourage, support, approve baptizing a child without their parents cooperation or knowledge. She doesn’t baptize a child who has little hope of being raised Catholic. That’s the situation. The OP should be trying to encourage the parents to come back to the faith. In an emergency situation such as if the child is so sick or was injured and in a state near death then the baptism could be done.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Archie Bunker baptized his grandson on an old episode of All in the Family. It did raise quite of bit of consternation (albeit fictional) on the show.

 

[YipYupYep]

But outside of danger of death, violating the parents’ right to raise their child as they wish is not the right thing to do.

Okay, but what’s the “intent” of the rule. The intent is to have it done in the church by the priest, when you can. They cant. It is a Sacrament that a lay person can perform for a reason. We are looking at the reason right now.

There are not the nosey neighbors, but the grandparents. I would argue that the grandparents would not be violating the rights of the parents, because in this regard, before the Lord, the parents don’t have any rights.

Why are you entitled to heaven and the innocent children are not, just by virtue of where the ceremony takes place. No my friend. I don’t think so.

 

[Phemie]

Okay, but what’s the “intent” of the rule. The intent is to have it done in the church by the priest, when you can. They cant. It is a Sacrament that a lay person can perform for a reason. We are looking at the reason right now.

There are not the nosey neighbors, but the grandparents. I would argue that the grandparents would not be violating the rights of the parents, because in this regard, before the Lord, the parents don’t have any rights.

Why are you entitled to heaven and the innocent children are not, just by virtue of where the ceremony takes place. No my friend. I don’t think so.

No, even the priest is not supposed to baptize if there is no hope that the child will be raised Catholic. There is no point to it.

The Church doesn’t teach that the children won’t go to heaven if not baptized. The Church teaching is that we do not know what happens but that we entrust them to a merciful God.

Is the child guaranteed heaven if he’s baptized and then never meets the obligations imposed on him by his baptism?

 

[tee_eff_em]

Okay, but what’s the “intent” of the rule. The intent is to have it done in the church by the priest, when you can. They cant. It is a Sacrament that a lay person can perform for a reason. We are looking at the reason right now.

The “intent” of the rule is to administer the sacrament in a manner which may be fruitful, rather than sacrilegious. Always. :twocents:

There are not the nosey neighbors, but the grandparents. I would argue that the grandparents would not be violating the rights of the parents, because in this regard, before the Lord, the parents don’t have any rights.

The Church, to which the Lord has entrusted the administration of the sacraments, disagrees with you.

:twocents:
tee

 

[Fox]

It would be a valid baptism, elicit since it wasn’t an emergency but valid nonetheless.

 

[puzzleannie]

It would be valid but you will make your grandchildren targets for evil if they have not been raised with instruction on the faith.

a child may not be baptized unless there is reasonable assurance the child will be raised Catholic. You should work on the parents of the children, to bring them to a state where they can give such assurance, if you want to help your grandchildren. Binding them to observance of Catholic laws, including that on sacraments and marriage, w/o providing for their education and practice of the faith, is indeed wrong. we are governed here by canon law, not by personal opinion or heartache. Pray as if the souls of these children depended on it, pray without ceasing.

 

[bpbasilphx]

I would argue that the grandparents would not be violating the rights of the parents, because in this regard, before the Lord, the parents don’t have any rights.

**Wrong. All you are doing is attributing your own opinion to God.

The whole justification for infant baptism is that infants are carried to the font on the authority of their PARENTS’ faith.

GOD has still granted such authority to the parents, not to the grandparents.**

 

[FrCorey]

…or my two year old Granddaughter?

If I pour water across their head, I baptize them in the Trinitarian formula, what happens?

Have I committed sin? Baptized them? Wasted my time?

Lay people can only baptise in a emergency sistuation.

 

[bpbasilphx]

janman, you’ve not made it clear why you feel called upon to baptize your grandchildren when the parents (who have such authority over their children) are apparently not in favor of it.

 

[Lepanto]

The OP only has the right to do that if the child is in danger of death – in that case Canon Law says we have a duty to baptize even against the parents’ wishes.

Which canon says this? I just skimmed the pertinent canons and didn’t see it.

I’m not trying to be a smart aleck – I would really like to know the answer to this question. Thanks.

 

[Phemie]

Which canon says this? I just skimmed the pertinent canons and didn’t see it.

I’m not trying to be a smart aleck – I would really like to know the answer to this question. Thanks.

Can. 868 §1. For an infant to be baptized licitly:

1/ the parents or at least one of them or the person who legitimately takes their place must consent;

2/ there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the baptism is to be delayed according to the prescripts of particular law after the parents have been advised about the reason.

§2. An infant of Catholic parents or even of non-Catholic parents is baptized licitly in danger of death even against the will of the parents.

 

[jmcrae]

…or my two year old Granddaughter?

If I pour water across their head, I baptize them in the Trinitarian formula, what happens?

Have I committed sin? Baptized them? Wasted my time?

While it’s tempting to do so, if there is no chance that they will be raised in the Catholic faith, it would be wrong to do so, unless they are in immediate danger of death, because baptizing them incorporates them into the Church, including the obligation to attend Sunday Mass, to be instructed in the proper use of the rest of the Sacraments, to be brought to Confession at least once a year once they reach the age of accountability, and to observe all of the laws and precepts of the Church that pertain to their state in life.

If the parents don’t want them to be baptized, it’s extremely unlikely that they would assist them to fulfill these other duties, either.

 

[janman55]

I’m the OP. This has been a very interesting thread that I’m glad I checked in on again. One issue that has been brought up several times is that “there must be some reason to believe the infant will be brought up in the Catholic faith.”

If this is so it seems to imply that all baptisms outside of Holy Mother Church are not valid regardless of the formula used or who performs the baptism?

Believe me, I am working on the parents with love, St Rita, and the Blessed Mother. But as a grandfather, its hard to understand that I can do it if they are in physical danger, but if they are in spirtual danger I cannot? How can I possibly know that “there is no chance for them to be raised Catholic”

I think I going to continue to encourage them to pray with me, to make the sign of the cross with holy water on themselves, and to ask for special blessings for them. I’m going to act as a surrogate God-parent to develop their faith and perhaps their desire for baptism.

THe problem is that there are fundmentalist influences in this story that are complicating my access and credibility in these discussions. If there is any way that my desire for their baptisms counts for anything, then they atleast have that going for them.

 

[Cristiano]

Talk to a priest. After a certain age your grandson will be allowed to be baptized (if he chooses so) even against the wishes of his parents. I am not sure of the age itself.

 

[Phemie]

I’m the OP. This has been a very interesting thread that I’m glad I checked in on again. One issue that has been brought up several times is that “there must be some reason to believe the infant will be brought up in the Catholic faith.”

If this is so it seems to imply that all baptisms outside of Holy Mother Church are not valid regardless of the formula used or who performs the baptism?

No, it doesn’t imply that at all. A child baptized in the Anglican/Episcopal Church is bound by the rules of that Church, as those baptized in the Lutheran church are bound by the rules of that Church. We recognize the validity of those baptism and don’t bind them to our rules.

Someone baptized in the Catholic Church then becomes bound by her rules.