"What If My Daughter Insists She Is a Male?" How a Catholic Priest Answered This Mother's Question.

[buffalo]

On the original topic, I would urge parents of gender dysphoric children to keep in mind that while we don’t necessarily know the cause or what ultimately is the best form of treatment (right now the standard is delaying puberty or transition, but that could change), studies have shown that trans people who feel supported and accepted have lower rates of suicide. So please be kind to those undergoing this struggle, even if you believe they are wrong.

Love includes telling them the truth. Actually, the thinking that the suicide rates are caused by intolerance is not holding up. This is an internal struggle. The worse thing we can do is encourage them to take an action that will increase an action or suicide.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Please quote my words where you believe I have derided your valid point of view .

If the child has left home and is in fact independent then her own wishes should surely be respected…especially if ignoring her wishes is likely to break down the relationship. One can of course still lovingly say how much it hurts to address her as a son when in fact you regard her as her baby girl…but in the end if opposition is not going to change the situation
then every true parent knows they must sacrifice themselves for their children’s good.
If they have left home it is in the end between them and God and ruining the relationship doesn’t help. One can still have a good relationship where both parties are honest and understand the pain the other is causing…and yet concede to the reasonable wishes of the grown up daughter. That is real love and if anything can change things then this sacrifice by the mother will.

One can of course still lovingly say how much it hurts to address her as a son when in fact you regard her as her baby girl…but in the end if opposition is not going to change the situation
then every true parent knows they must sacrifice themselves for their children’s good.
If they have left home it is in the end between them and God and ruining the relationship doesn’t help. One can still have a good relationship where both parties are honest and understand the pain the other is causing…and yet concede to the reasonable wishes of the grown up daughter. That is real love and if anything can change things then this sacrifice by the mother will.

The second paragraph block highlights what I found worrisome about your response. I love and support my daughter insofar as I will not abandon her, but I will NOT succumb to the wishes of my daughter in condoning her choice/non-choice of a lifestyle. And do not presume to tell me how I should react in regards to how I can or cannot react to her position. It seems “sacrifice” to you means condoning a mortal sin. I love her and cherish her, and I will not really try to “fix” her, but I also will not contribute to her delusion by certain actions. And if I am unfortunately causing unnecessary pain to her with my refusal to totally embrace her sexuality, then she is also causing great pain in me and her mother by acting the way she does. Even if somehow we contributed to her state of sexuality, that does mean we defend what is indefensible. Just because one CAN do something (as in “born this way” beliefs----does not mean one should act upon it.

Yes, I will love her, but I will not attend her wedding to her partner. I also will not attend pro-gay rallies and clap when she openly kisses a woman on the mouth in front of me.

Sorry if standing by the truth of Holy Mother Church offends you.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

It is always a choice to act.

That is a tangent - you still avoid answering the salient questions….

Here it is again:

Quote: Buffalo
If a biological component is found, that would still be inconsistent with his design.

Of course it would be, why do you assume anyone here disagrees with that?
We all know mother nature in a fallen world regularly gets it wrong and produces results inconsistent with God’s design… So personal choice is not the only cause of such disorders in the world as your original position seems to imply.

You didn’t answer yes or no and I have to wonder why.

I made very clear why. You have no reason to ask a practising Catholic whether they advocate homosexual acts.

Its the low-class tabloid question typical of an extremist who believes that if someone does not agree with what they think is the cause of homosexuality then they cannot be real Catholics.

Grow up please, I am not going to dignify your unworthy question by responding to it other than I already have. As I say, I go to mass three times a week - do you?

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Love includes telling them the truth.

What “truth” are you referring to exactly…that of the Catechism…“2357 Homosexuality has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained.”?

 

[Blue_Horizon]

The second paragraph block highlights what I found worrisome about your response. I love and support my daughter insofar as I will not abandon her, but I will NOT succumb to the wishes of my daughter in condoning her choice/non-choice of a lifestyle.

Is your daughter gay or gender dysphoric?

And do not presume to tell me how I should react in regards to how I can or cannot react to her position. It seems “sacrifice” to you means condoning a mortal sin.

You seem to have a lot of anger over this issue which if it leaks out in any discussions you have with your daughter is unlikely to solve anything no matter what approach you take.

Please quote the sentence where I allegedly commanded you to do anything?
What is the “mortal sin” exactly that you believe I said parents “should” condone? How is referring to one’s daughter as a boy, which the OP’s concern, a mortal sin exactly?

but I also will not contribute to her delusion by certain actions.

It is by no means certain that her gender is a delusion, that is your possible ideological position. She is not deluded about her sex but perhaps you have confused “gender” with “sex” yourself?

… she is also causing great pain in me and her mother by acting the way she does.

We have all noted the pain it causes parents. What is worrisome to me is you as a mother would see this as a valid argument on its own merits. It is the nature of parenthood to sacrifice oneself for the good of one’s children. Therefore the only question here re comparative levels of pain is whether the “good” in question is identified as a true “good” for the child. A worthy mother’s pain, of itself, surely has little bearing on this decision.

Yes, I will love her, but I will not attend her wedding to her partner.

OK, I see you have been off topic all along .
The response you quoted above was in response to the OP link. That was about gender dysphoria. I suggest you go back and read what I was actually addressing.

Sorry if standing by the truth of Holy Mother Church offends you.

How can I be offended if you have completely fizzed off on something I was never talking about or even said.

 

[buffalo]

That is a tangent - you still avoid answering the salient questions….

Here it is again:

I made very clear why. You have no reason to ask a practising Catholic whether they advocate homosexual acts.

Its the low-class tabloid question typical of an extremist who believes that if someone does not agree with what they think is the cause of homosexuality then they cannot be real Catholics.

Grow up please, I am not going to dignify your unworthy question by responding to it other than I already have. As I say, I go to mass three times a week - do you?

There are many practicing Catholics that advocate homosexual acts. It is a simple question, yet you won’t answer yes or no.

 

[buffalo]

What “truth” are you referring to exactly…that of the Catechism…“2357 Homosexuality has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained.”?

You neglected the entire paragraph. Why?

 

[Blue_Horizon]

You neglected the entire paragraph. Why?

Buffalo, petulant tangential questions posed to avoid answering the natural ones already asked of you that neutral lurkers are more likely interested in further erodes whatever credibility you have left here .

Until you can address those questions full on I don’t really think anyone has any more interest in anything more you might have to say .

I certainly don’t.

By all means have the last word as I am sure you will…a trait of most extremists.

 

[buffalo]

Buffalo, petulant tangential questions posed to avoid answering the natural ones already asked of you that neutral lurkers are more likely interested in further erodes whatever credibility you have left here .

Until you can address those questions full on I don’t really think anyone has any more interest in anything more you might have to say .

I certainly don’t.

By all means have the last word as I am sure you will…a trait of most extremists.

Attack the poster? Nice…

So now it is clear what your answer is. You advocate homosexual acts.

 

[JimG]

I went back and read the original linked Q&A for the first post. The mother starts out “My heart is shredded. My beautiful daughter is insisting that she is really a boy. I know this is biologically impossible.”

Yes, of course it is biologically impossible. Surely the daughter must know that as well. Has she checked her anatomy? Her genetics? A girl is a girl. She cannot change into a boy. Biology determines sex. And gender is simply another descriptor of sex. The priest’s answer was good. Love the daughter without accepting the unreal delusion. The girl’s preferences about gender roles can certainly vary from the norm, but they don’t make her a boy.

 

[Rau]

I went back and read the original linked Q&A for the first post. The mother starts out “My heart is shredded. My beautiful daughter is insisting that she is really a boy. I know this is biologically impossible.”

Yes, of course it is biologically impossible. Surely the daughter must know that as well. Has she checked her anatomy? Her genetics? A girl is a girl. She cannot change into a boy. Biology determines sex.

All quite true. And in all probability the girl knows full well the state of her body. Any grief she suffers is not connected with “failing to see the reality of her body”, but rather the persistent internal sense of conflict between her evident body and her sense of self.

And while I can understand that statement at an intellectual level, I can’t really appreciate what it means to experience that conflict or disconnect or the distress associated with it. But the evidence is that it is very real.

And can I repeat what I have said previously - it is misleading to refer to persons suffering dysphoria as delusional. A boy who believes he is Napoleon Bonaparte is delusional.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Attack the poster? Nice…

So now it is clear what your answer is. You advocate homosexual acts.

I have simply observed to you the natural consequences of your evasions and inappropriate questions .

Your causality views are unbalanced, especially in the light of the CCC, and you seem unable to accept any other Catholic view but your own, allegedly, Catholic one. That is called extremism.

You have crossed a line by accusing a practising Catholic of advocating homosexual acts simply because I oppose your single minded and unbalanced views re the causality of homosexual orientation and gender dysphoria .

 

[buffalo]

I have simply observed to you the natural consequences of your evasions and inappropriate questions .

Your causality views are unbalanced, especially in the light of the CCC, and you seem unable to accept any other Catholic view but your own, allegedly, Catholic one. That is called extremism.

You have crossed a line by accusing a practising Catholic of advocating homosexual acts simply because I oppose your single minded and unbalanced views re the causality of homosexual orientation and gender dysphoria .

Lots of smoke, still no answer.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Lots of smoke, still no answer.

See post forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14525068&postcount=88
And forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14524968&postcount=83