What if someone in RCIA doesn't accept all of the Church's teachings?

[HomeschoolDad]

What if a catechumen starts in the RCIA process, goes to classes, and whatnot, but simply cannot — or will not — accept one or more of the Church’s doctrinal or moral teachings? I am not referring to difficulties that one is seeking to overcome, I am referring to someone saying “I want to join the Church, but I just cannot accept that X is sinful (where X is something the magisterium has clearly taught) or that doctrine or dogma X is true — the rest of it, I go along with, but not that”. What if they are told “pray to see it the Church’s way” but in the end, they say “no, I don’t believe that, my mind’s made up, I am right and the Church is wrong”.

Are they dismissed from RCIA and not allowed to join the Church? Does anyone “try to work with them” on the matter? Or would they ever be told “that’s OK, if your conscience tells you that, you don’t have to accept the Church’s teaching on that matter”? And is this something that happens often? Has anyone ever heard of it?

 

[catholic03]

Said catechumen, I would assume, probably wouldn’t be allowed to join the Church unless they affirmed the doctrine in question that they deny.

 

[John_Martin]

We are too nice.
This catechumen is saying to the bishop on the day of confirmation, "I am wiser than you in regard to dogma X; you must stop teaching incorrect Doctrine to your people, to the church, and instead teach it as I am telling you it means now.

 

[adf417]

Why would this person want to continue on the journey? Why would he not quit RCIA himself?

 

[JerryZ]

Many people have been in this situation and there have been those that were able to overcome their skepticism about the issue, others have said I do not fully understand this teaching BUT I trust the Church and therefore I accept it and finally those who could not come to grips with and could not join the Church. Unfortunately it is not wise for someone to enter the Church with doubts like that, it will undermine their faith and could possibly put in jeopardy other members of the Church.
Dr. David Anders in his conversion story went to something similar, he ended up in the 2nd category for a little wile and now look where he is .
Peace!

 

[Dan_Defender]

finally those who could not come to grips with and could not join the Church.

Yes but even in this group some of them, after going to other churches for years and finding no real conviction, came back to the true Church and did the RCIA again. Like St Peter said: Lord, to whom shall we go?

 

[pnewton]

What if a catechumen starts in the RCIA process, goes to classes, and whatnot, but simply cannot — or will not — accept one or more of the Church’s doctrinal or moral teachings? I am not referring to difficulties that one is seeking to overcome, I am referring to someone saying “I want to join the Church, but I just cannot accept that X is sinful (where X is something the magisterium has clearly taught) or that doctrine or dogma X is true —

This is a great question, one I do not know that answer to. I do know that a person makes a profession of faith upon joining, but that is all dogma, stuff that must be believe. I would think this is something where the specifics matter and the priest is the best judge.

 

[Anne1964]

I have this situation with someone who is a young adult Catholic who never received Confirmation. I was asked to do a one-on-one class for her. There is one church teaching she does not agree with and I discussed with our priest who has postponed her Confirmation indefinitely.

Please pray for her that she comes to understand and accept this particular teaching and for me that I can help her with this.

 

[Justin_Mary]

Unfortunately it is not wise for someone to enter the Church with doubts like that, it will undermine their faith and could possibly put in jeopardy other members of the Church.

I understand your point. But how many of us cradle Catholics grew up knowing all doctrines & dogma? How many agreed with everything when they found out?

Get baptized I say. Get that indelible mark on your soul. Receive God’s grace through the sacraments. Allow The Holy Spirit, who dwells in the baptized, to guide, teach, transform.

 

[Vico]

JerryZ:

Unfortunately it is not wise for someone to enter the Church with doubts like that, it will undermine their faith and could possibly put in jeopardy other members of the Church.

I understand your point. But how many of us cradle Catholics grew up knowing all doctrines & dogma? How many agreed with everything when they found out?

Get baptized I say. Get that indelible mark on your soul. Receive God’s grace through the sacraments. Allow The Holy Spirit, who dwells in the baptized, to guide, teach, transform.

Any Catholic is free to dissent and loose the state of sanctifying grace.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I understand your point. But how many of us cradle Catholics grew up knowing all doctrines & dogma? How many agreed with everything when they found out?

I was going to say, it’s a whole lot easier for us cradles who were baptized as babies and confirmed when we were about 14 with maybe an okay-to-good knowledge of Church teaching, but there was a whole lot of stuff that was simply not even on my radar screen at age 14. For example, I did not have to ponder the Church teaching on death penalty or gay marriage.

I can see it being perhaps more difficult for a 30-year-old adult to accept some of the moral teachings. I personally have had to just put various things in the “I’m just gonna trust you on this one, Lord, because I can’t wrap my mind around it very well” bin.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Why would this person want to continue on the journey? Why would he not quit RCIA himself?

Maybe because they see a lot of people who are already Catholic, yet do not accept all of the Church’s teachings, and nobody says “boo” to them — they are allowed to receive communion, receive the sacrament of matrimony, have their children baptized, and what they do about confession, that’s anyone’s guess — and might wonder why they, as catechumens, are being held to a higher set of standards.

I am referring to someone who just flatly refuses to give assent of mind, heart, and soul to a magisterial teaching of the Church. I am not referring to someone who does not deny a certain teaching, but has a hard time living up to it. That’s called “being a sinner”, and we all do that. This is something different.

I have this situation with someone who is a young adult Catholic who never received Confirmation. I was asked to do a one-on-one class for her. There is one church teaching she does not agree with and I discussed with our priest who has postponed her Confirmation indefinitely.

That is precisely what the priest should be doing.

I can see it being perhaps more difficult for a 30-year-old adult to accept some of the moral teachings. I personally have had to just put various things in the “I’m just gonna trust you on this one, Lord, because I can’t wrap my mind around it very well” bin.

That’s what I’ve had to do about things such as

• non-Catholics being able to confect a valid sacramental marriage when they do not believe that marriage is indissoluble
• usury being first wrong and then right because the economy in modern times is different (or something like that) — but why was it ever considered wrong in the first place, why can you rent everything else but you can’t “rent money”?
• extra ecclesiam nulla salus coming down to, basically, “if you seek God with a sincere heart, you’re ‘in the Church’ whether you realize it or not” — it’s “extra ecclesiam”, not “sine ecclesiam”, two different things

… and other things that it is too late at night to get into.

 

[JerryZ]

Well indeed I am a cradle Catholic and I also confess that for a good part of my life I did not fully know my faith. However it is different for someone that is grown up on a different tradition or no tradition at all. If memory serves me well in the beginning Catechumenate had to stay in that “state” for a long period of time until they completed their preparation and had to fully assent to all that the Church teaches. Now days we compress the RCIA in less than a year. And for Baptism how do we know if the person is not already Baptized? Too many of us are or were “cafeteria catholics”. Catholics in name only, darned I cringe every time I hear those words. No we need to be fully Catholics able to defend and proclaim the faith to the 4 corners of the World. How can we be that if we don’t fully acknowledge and accept all the teaching of our faith?
Peace!

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Now days we compress the RCIA in less than a year.

Have they started doing that? I didn’t know this. I have had great difficulty with the concept of making a person wait two years to be baptized. A year, that’s more like it.

I’m sure that the Church will be very heartened to know that she meets with my approval

 

[JerryZ]

Well technically the “process” can be seen as lasting 2 years because it starts the year prior, so the Catechumen from last year would join the Church this year. But in reality you get the point!
Peace!

 

[esieffe]

I am thinking that it would depend somewhat on X even if it is dogma, and of course the Church, Pastor, and RCIA director.

I was always told that you could fill out all the forms you want, and go through all the rites you want, but if you refuse to accept, X [dogma] you are not Catholic. There were things I questioned about dogma, when I was in RCIA, but I looked into X quite a bit, and came around in the end. I was in full communion with Rome.

This person is simply filling out forms, attending classes, and sitting in on rites. We can however pray for this person, and who knows, he may come around. God knows what he is about. God has a way of cluing people in. God might want him there for any number of reasons, he might even be testing the Priest. Hard to say. In the end, it is between him, the Pastor and the DRE.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I am thinking that it would depend somewhat on X even if it is dogma, and of course the Church, Pastor, and RCIA director.

I was always told that you could fill out all the forms you want, and go through all the rites you want, but if you refuse to accept, X [dogma] you are not Catholic. There were things I questioned about dogma, when I was in RCIA, but I looked into X quite a bit, and came around in the end. I was in full communion with Rome.

I have more in mind solemn magisterial teachings of the Church, or traditional Catholic moral teachings (not necessarily casuistry about specific applications of Church teaching), not dogmas or articles of the Creed. Asking questions about X, fine. Looking into X quite a bit, fine. Rejecting X, not fine.

 

[LikeaChild]

Seventeen years ago, I had a powerful conversion experience that made it clear to me that God was calling me to the Catholic Church. Having grown up Protestant, I was at the time of my conversion totally agnostic and a bit of a hot mess.

Well, I learned a lot in RCIA and my love for the Church only deepened, but I definitely did not believe all that the Church teaches at the time of my Confirmation. I remember being very uncomfortable saying the Profession of Faith, though I trusted God’s leading. I did share some of my doubts with my priest.

I am eternally grateful that he allowed me to proceed. It took some years, but I have come to trust the Church and Her teachings. I am on fire for the faith and now teach RCIA and sponsor candidates each year.

We do at times prohibit candidates from proceeding and sometimes candidates remove themselves from the process. When I get frustrated with their lack of understanding, or worldliness, or obstinancy, or whatever, I just remember how poor a soul I was when the Church welcomed me, and I pray that the good work begun in them will be brought to completion. He came to call not the righteous, but sinners.

 

[annad347]

God has a way of cluing people in. God might want him there for any number of reasons,

That’s what I believe.

I believe there’s a reason God makes it possible for me to continue going to a Catholic service each Sunday… but to say the church is calling me, I’m still not sure it is, mainly because I also believe there is a reason God makes it possible for me to go to a Lutheran church each Sunday as well.

I question everything in both churches… and I mean everything.

There are some things I still dont agree with in the Catholic churches, but that doesnt mean I dont believe in the truth the church teaches about God. I love the homilies the priest preach in the services and find it amazing that sometimes I feel they are taking directly to me.

Your friend really should make an appointment with the priest, and speak with the RCIA teacher… not be afraid to ask the though questions… and maybe give the Catholic church a chance. She might learn the X’s she doesn’t accept about the church arent as important as she thought they were or will affect her relationship with God.

I learned the things about the Catholic church I thought were sinful are okay if I didnt participate in them. I also learned the things I dont agree with are not that important or I that I can live with them, to participate in them so I can remain an active member in the church. Everything I do is done with prayer and through the Gace of God

I hope that makes sense…and I hope your friend gives the Catholic church a chance, she might learn it’s not that bad of a church.

 

[Nik]

Ok so I’ve been in RCIA this year and have not been able to join the Church for various reasons I won’t go into.

I can’t imagine anyone being asked to leave RCIA or the Church. It may be agreed that it’s best to delay receiving the Sacraments.

My experience has been that I’ve been encouraged to still attend Mass and even to finish off the RCIA sessions but obviously without actually coming into full communion.

The thing is at no point were we given a list of doctrine or dogma that we must believe to join the Church. So you may well get people going through the whole process who don’t believe certain things. I could easily have kept quiet and done so, it was just my conscience that told me not to.