What if someone were forced to sin?

[OnWings]

I’m just curious about what a person should do if in a time of persecution, they were pressured or forced to commit sin or renounce the faith. If it were just their own life at stake, they could accept becoming a martyr. But what if they were told “Renounce the faith, or every one of your family members will be killed or put into prison”? What if this person were a priest or religious? What if their family members were atheists? What if the person were told they had to not only renounce the faith, but commit some kind of mortal sin everyday for the rest of their life or for as long as the persecution would last? What if they were told that as long as they refuse to comply, innocent people will be executed daily?

 

[Mrchatsworth]

Things like this have happened. The people who we recognize as heroic or saints in the Bible or in Tradition are those who would not sin. Viva Christo Rey!

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

While the ideal thing to do in that situation would be to refuse and accept the consequences, not everyone would have it in them. That’s really extraordinary levels of courage.

If you were doing something wrong because someone was holding a gun to an innocents head, you wouldn’t be culpable for it anyway. You’re obviously not consenting to the sinful act.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I’d suggest watching the film “silence”. A fictional account based on the persecution of the Church in Japan.

Read “Come Rack, Come Rope” about the martyrs of the English reformation.

The great persecution of Russia is staggering in its scope.

The Church recognizes martyrs in a special way.

Today Catholics around the world face life threatening persecution. Read a about the persecution in China, in North Korea.

A person’s family or friends would likely be so profoundly moved by the level of their commitment to their beliefs that conversions would be the fruit.

 

[OnWings]

A person’s family or friends would likely be so profoundly moved by the level of their commitment to their beliefs that conversions would be the fruit.

I could see it backfiring though. If a person’s family were atheists, and the person was forced to either renounce their faith or have all their family be killed, wouldn’t the family members feel betrayed and abandoned if the person refused to renounce their faith to save their family?

 

[TheLittleLady]

Trust in God. If I became a martyr, I would be in heaven interceding before His throne for the people I left behind.

Fear not those who kill the body, fight the good fight and finish the race, scripture speaks to the persecuted.

God does not teach us that it is okay to apostasize because our friends might feel betrayed.

 

[TK421]

You can’t renounce the faith even if they threaten to go after other people, such as parents or children. Even if they follow through with the threat, they are the murderers, not you. This has happened before in history many times.

Don’t negotiate with terrorism. Don’t negotiate with the Enemy. Resist and persevere.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I’m just curious about what a person should do if in a time of persecution, they were pressured or forced to commit sin or renounce the faith. If it were just their own life at stake, they could accept becoming a martyr. But what if they were told “Renounce the faith, or every one of your family members will be killed or put into prison”? What if this person were a priest or religious? What if their family members were atheists? What if the person were told they had to not only renounce the faith, but commit some kind of mortal sin everyday for the rest of their life or for as long as the persecution would last? What if they were told that as long as they refuse to comply, innocent people will be executed daily?

You resist, unto death, or even the death of others, if you have to.

I am not going to go anywhere near the question of diminished (or even totally absent) culpability for those people who do not have the strength of will or soul, to resist in this fashion. Far above my pay grade. And I believe in a God of great mercy.

 

[Anesti33]

I’d suggest watching the film “silence”. A fictional account based on the persecution of the Church in Japan.

I prefer to view one of the many films where martyrs are depicted defending and upholding their faith, rather than a cowardly denial and renunciation to save their own skin at the very end, while allegedly couched in terms that even Jesus would accept the apostasy if it’s for a good cause. (oops, did I give a spoiler warning?)

For reference, see For Greater Glory about the Cristero martyrs in Mexico.

 

[Maximian]

I’d suggest watching the film “silence”. A

You are not seriously recommending this film, are you? It’s a nauseous attempt to defend the indefensible. It’ makes the insulting claim that Japanese Christians can’t understand Christianity so what’s the point in demanding they suffer for the faith? And it shamefully enlists Jesus in the cause of apostasy. I really don’t recommend anybody sully themselves watching this obnoxious film.

 

[Zaccheus]

“Renounce the faith, or every one of your family members will be killed or put into prison”?

The persecutors are responsible for their own sins. The believer must not renounce his faith.
If you can be brought to renounce your faith to save your family, then you can be brought to betray other faithful to save your family.
If that, then you can be brought to torture other faithful to save your family.
If that, then you can be brought to commit some other atrocity to save your family.

What if they were told that as long as they refuse to comply, innocent people will be executed daily?

The persecutors are responsible for their own sins. The believer must not renounce his faith.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Seems we watched very different films. Maybe reading the book is a benefit?

The story shows both those who accept martyrdom and those who choose to bend to persecution. I found it a powerful story.

 

[Zaccheus]

I don’t think the Christian God would mind if someone renounced their faith to preserve the lives of their family and friends.

In fact we are clearly taught that the Christian God would mind. We are told to endure to the end, to be willing to die rather than deny Him.
God forgives the repentant, but that is a different issue.

 

[pohandes]

Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. Progress in virtue, knowledge of the good, and ascesis enhance the mastery of the will over its acts.

CCC: 1734

 

[pohandes]

Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart[133] do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

CCC: 1859

 

[Anesti33]

I find it a bit harsh to punish someone for only trying to preserve the lives of the ones they love.

Utilitarianism preaches that the ends justifies the means, that evil may be done so that some greater good may result. The Christian faith is not like that. We must never do evil even to achieve a perceived good.

What if I am held captive until I renounce my faith and my family is threatened with death? Then I renounce my faith and my captors still kill my family. Whose sin is that? What if I refused to renounce my faith and my captors kill my family – where is the sin now? See what I mean?

 

[Anesti33]

But that’s not the choice at all; you don’t seem to understand the hypotheticals being proposed here.

 

[Anesti33]

Remember this: the family thus murdered will immediately receive a crown of martyrdom for being killed in odium fidei.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

Yeah, I’m a bit confused. So, it isn’t a sin if you allow your family to be killed but it is a sin to renounce your faith in exchange for their lives, even if they are still killed in the end?

Keep in mind that the Church is articulating what would be the perfect response to that extreme situation. The most virtuous thing you could do in that situation is refuse.

That said, most people would not have that extraordinary level of courage, and it’s highly unlikely that someone who did do whatever was necessary to save their family would be culpable for their failure. Sin is a free choice to do wrong. If you do something wrong because someone has a gun to your child’s head, you’re not really making a free choice.

 

[LeonardoArruda]

“Renounce the faith, or every one of your family members will be killed or put into prison”

They should not renouce the faith at all, if they keep strong on their faith they and the family will become martyrs, and its impossible to force someone to sin becuse a sin implies a consent, if you grab my hand and force me to stab someone it wasnt my fault, if that actualy happened it would only be a sin if i wanted to do so, if a woman was raped she is not guilty of sin becuse she didnt wanted to.

What if this person were a priest or religious?

A good priest would become a martyr and not renouce the faith, but in a life or death situation a priest once told me that its never a mortal sin when you have your life or someone elses at stake.

What if they were told that as long as they refuse to comply, innocent people will be executed daily?

That would result in a lot of Martyrs, the Roman Empire couldnt make people renounce their faith becuse they knew that they were ready to die for it, thats why heresy is used to figth the Church insted of persecution (although persecution still happens).

sorry for my english