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rinnie
Guest
Do you think if the bible did not exist, then the only Church would be the Catholic Church today, as when the bible did not exist??
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If it didn’t exist, Christ could not have said, “it is written”.
When was it that scripture did not exist?
Jon
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Protestor
Guest
No, Yes, and Maybe. I think there would probably be less christians today. Anything we say here is pure speculation.
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TonyBS
Guest
We would not be here to question it
It is the recorded Word, by which we are all created.
God Bless and Regards Tony
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IgnatianPhilo
Guest
Who knows? I suspect protestantism wouldn’t exist and historic christianity would look different or perhaps have another set of authoritative books, perhaps compiling the traditions of Christ, the apostles and the early church.
M
Mary_Estelle
Guest
I think if the Bible did not exist there would be some sort of code for society to live by, such as the Code of Hannarobi(sp). It was a form of justice and regulations to keep society in check and functional. It was “rough justice.” The Bible, as we know it today as “inspired” probably would not have existed at all, so there would not have been divisions of Churches as we tend to say. Who can say what would have been the glue that held groups or nations together? I can not fathom or even make a speculation.
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SalusaSecondus
Guest
If the bible didn’t exist then it would be necessary for God to create it.
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Mary_Estelle
Guest
The spoken word and the written word(Bible) are subject to change in translation as they are passed down from generation to generation and mistranslated over time. Even the Bible which is relatively “new” in the annals of time and history, has been mistranslated from time to time. I am sure the Word would exist in some form. Even today, the Church is in slow change or dare I say-evolving?
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Duane1966
Guest
Bible just means collection of books Jon. That is why it is called Holy Bible, to delineate that it is that collection of books that we are talking about. When Jesus said it is written, those OT scrolls were not gathered into one book, hence no bible.If it didn’t exist, Christ could not have said, “it is written”.
Jon
Garden of Eden, to start with.
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Duane1966
Guest
I stated about a year ago, if we had no bible, we would still have the Church. Jesus never said to write anything down. Our existence does not depend on a book, but on the promises of Christ.
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rinnie
Guest
Why would you say that? The Church has existed long before the bible existed, and it did fine. I am curious though, why would you think God would need to create it?
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SalusaSecondus
Guest
Not really. The church was in a disastrous state prior to the NT being compiled. The church recognized that God gave us the bible because of the confusion that was wracking the church. If the bible didn’t exist the church would be in the same disastrous state that it was many centuries ago.
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IgnatianPhilo
Guest
Because of the huge emphasis on the scripture as the rule of faith by which every other source is exclusively judged. If Protestantism admitted an equal authority to the church. Bible alone is the way protestants operate, take away the bible and you only have the faith given by word of mouth which is not as trusted as the faith in the written word.Why would protestantism not exist? Sola authoritative books
Jon
Hence why I cannot conceive of a Protestantism existing in a hypothetical bible free world. Such a church in this hypothetical world would be even more reliant on tradition than Catholic, Orthodox or Oriental Christianity combined.
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adf417
Guest
If the church was in such a disastrous state can you explain how this recognition could occur?
Peace!!!
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SalusaSecondus
Guest
The spirit of God works through our iniquities no matter how great.If the church was in such a disastrous state can you explain how this recognition could occur?
Peace!!!
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spedteacherita
Guest
But Jesus, the Word, is part of the Trinity and the Holy Spirit guided those to write down the various letters and books. There is a reason that He did that.
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spedteacherita
Guest
The Bible may not have been compiled but Justin Martyr in his description of a Christian service states that the memoirs of the Apostles were read as well as the Prophets. It’s clear that Scripture was an integral part of the early Christians worship.
prayerfoundation.org/justin_martyr_early_christian_worship.htm
God bless all!
Rita
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Vic_Taltrees_UK
Guest
Given God’s successive revelations to many generations - Adam, Cain, Enosh son of Seth, Enoch, Noah, Terah to name only a few prior to Abraham - show that it was inevitable that He was going to continue revealing. Even earliest revelations prophecy of Christ.
Many peoples had writing by Moses’ time if not well before. Texts would be used by various peoples as master copy to train spiritual personnel and/or proclaim the content to the general populace. In the case of Hebrew Scriptures I think both these functions were the case. Over several centuries more books were added by authoritative decision.
As to New Testament, St Paul and the other Apostles sent letters to churches to actually communicate to them (there was no TV in those days), mostly in reply to letters they sent to Apostles they had met and sometimes not met. Meantime oral bodies of catechesis passed down through followers of Jesus were fairly shortly written up as the four Gospels to support the churches in knowing them. Conditions were difficult and some copies or entire documents were lost. Extant New Testament manuscripts from the early Church are in fact more numerous than those remaining of secular classical works of the same period and scholars have found variations among them to be few and minor.
As Councils started to be held to maintain harmony in the Church an agreed discernment was confirmed as to which documents were authoritative enough to be in the Canon. It was essential to be able to refer to texts everybody had when disputes arose. It would have taken far longer to train priests and monks and educate lay people in the faith. Also, despite burnings by Vikings etc it was the constant copying of Scriptures by monks especially in Ireland that kept parts of the world relatively Christian and why you and I can be Christian today.
Therefore I think it unlikely that there would ever have NOT been Holy Scriptures.
As for the Protestants, they (or a more unreliable version of them) and a huge number of other sects would have existed far earlier and eclipsed the Catholic Church had there not been Scriptures in writing. God held off the Reformation till Catholics had printing presses, and in history and culture East and West had drawn closer in some ways (the work of Aquinas and the Renaissance).
The majority of Protestants use the same basic Bible as Catholics and most draw on much of the early Church fathers’ tradition even when they pretend they don’t. Up to 1517 even the Baptists and Pentecostals were Catholics! I am glad of the many kind Protestants who have given me moral support over many years. Jesus Himself said He was going to make stones into sons for Abraham!
Many peoples had writing by Moses’ time if not well before. Texts would be used by various peoples as master copy to train spiritual personnel and/or proclaim the content to the general populace. In the case of Hebrew Scriptures I think both these functions were the case. Over several centuries more books were added by authoritative decision.
As to New Testament, St Paul and the other Apostles sent letters to churches to actually communicate to them (there was no TV in those days), mostly in reply to letters they sent to Apostles they had met and sometimes not met. Meantime oral bodies of catechesis passed down through followers of Jesus were fairly shortly written up as the four Gospels to support the churches in knowing them. Conditions were difficult and some copies or entire documents were lost. Extant New Testament manuscripts from the early Church are in fact more numerous than those remaining of secular classical works of the same period and scholars have found variations among them to be few and minor.
As Councils started to be held to maintain harmony in the Church an agreed discernment was confirmed as to which documents were authoritative enough to be in the Canon. It was essential to be able to refer to texts everybody had when disputes arose. It would have taken far longer to train priests and monks and educate lay people in the faith. Also, despite burnings by Vikings etc it was the constant copying of Scriptures by monks especially in Ireland that kept parts of the world relatively Christian and why you and I can be Christian today.
Therefore I think it unlikely that there would ever have NOT been Holy Scriptures.
As for the Protestants, they (or a more unreliable version of them) and a huge number of other sects would have existed far earlier and eclipsed the Catholic Church had there not been Scriptures in writing. God held off the Reformation till Catholics had printing presses, and in history and culture East and West had drawn closer in some ways (the work of Aquinas and the Renaissance).
The majority of Protestants use the same basic Bible as Catholics and most draw on much of the early Church fathers’ tradition even when they pretend they don’t. Up to 1517 even the Baptists and Pentecostals were Catholics! I am glad of the many kind Protestants who have given me moral support over many years. Jesus Himself said He was going to make stones into sons for Abraham!
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Duane1966
Guest
Correct. And herein lies a dilemma for sola scriptura adherents. Jesus, being part of that Trinity, knows the future. Yet not once, does He say: "if a problem arises, or if you have questions, take it to this book that will be written in the future." Instead He left the teaching Church, with authority and His promises. Nor does the Holy Spirit inspire any of the NT writers to write: “consult the bible.” Instead the Holy Spirit inspired this: "15* But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.* Strange, no mention of scripture being the pillar and foundation.
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