What if the Church did this in response to the same-sex "marriage" debate?

[CrimsonThorn]

Not me.

And I am telling you, as a matter of fact, Martha and Mary from the office, being married, has no effect on my marriage, or my life, at all.

None at all.

You are free of course, to think what you like.

But those are the facts.

Sarah x

In the bigger picture, it affects tradiditional marriage. I recall you stating publicly in another thread that you’re not exactly in a traditional marriage but rather in a cohabitation. That could be why you feel it has no affect on you.

Also, do you think homosexuals would be happy if there were such a program that allowed bestialists, pedophiles, incestuous couples, and homosexual marriage all under the same roof? We could say those other “marriages” dont affect their unions, but something tells me they wouldn’t be happy about that.

 

[atheistgirl]

In the bigger picture, it affects tradiditional marriage. I recall you stating publicly in another thread that you’re not exactly in a traditional marriage but rather in a cohabitation.

Link to where I said I was cohabiting please.

That could be why you feel it has no affect on you.

No.

I feel my marriage is not affected by gay marriage, because it isn’t.

Also, do you think homosexuals would be happy if there were such a program that allowed bestialists, pedophiles, incestuous couples, and homosexual marriage all under the same roof?

You’ll have to ask a homosexual

But, I have to manage a wry smile when yet again, the histrionics around such discussions bring up pedophilia, incest and bestiality.

Sarah x

 

[MidnightSun12]

My marriage to my husband is not even remotely undermined or affected in any way by the fact Martha in the office is married to Mary.

Their relationship and marriage has no effect, influence or bearing on my marriage whatsoever.

None.

Sarah x

You have a duty to Martha and Mary to help their souls get to heaven.

We are expected to love our neighbours as ourselves. We also know that the Church infallibly teaches that all homosexual acts endangers the souls of its participants. If we put these two facts together, how can we do anything less then oppose gay “marriage” with all our strength?

Remember, the Church opposes gay marriage because it wants every single gay person to go to heaven.

 

[down_under]

Link to where I said I was cohabiting please.

No.

I feel my marriage is not affected by gay marriage, because it isn’t.

You’ll have to ask a homosexual

But, I have to manage a wry smile when yet again, the histrionics around such discussions bring up pedophilia, incest and bestiality.

Sarah x

No you miss it the next step is polygamy that will make the morons happy. and yes they have been vocal about the fact that once they get SSM polygamy will be next. There is now no longer any legal defence against it. then strange things start to get brought up by the Man Boy Love association

Yes there is such a thing and no it is not small. It is a rather large group for a political lobby. So yes these things have direct relevance weather or not you choose to see them.

 

[MidnightSun12]

No you miss it the next step is polygamy that will make the morons happy. and yes they have been vocal about the fact that once they get SSM polygamy will be next. There is now no longer any legal defence against it. then strange things start to get brought up by the Man Boy Love association.

Unfortunately, it sounds like it’s already gone past the man-boy love association:

nationalreview.com/human-exceptionalism/337010/normalizing-pedophilia#

Remember, before Ancient Greek civilization collapsed, they had legalized both homosexuality and pedophilia. What makes anybody think we are on a different track?

 

[guanophore]

See you aware that " slippery slope" arguments are a logical fallacy, and therefore not acceptable in logical debate?

Let’s discuss the matter at hand, not what you personally feel it will lead to in the future. If something is wrong, you should be able to prove it wrong on its own terms, not based on what it may or may not lead to.

Just because something may lead to something bad does not make that thing bad. For instance, the idea that people should be able to make medical decisions about their own bodies is a good thing, but it led to abortion which is a bad thing. Using your logic, people should not be allowed to make medical decisions for their own bodies, because that was the slippery slope that led to abortion.

No this is false. An abortion is not a “medical decision”. Pregnancy is not a “medical” condition. A child in the womb is not a disease, but a person. A pregnant woman has a medical need for prenatal care, not to have her womb and the life within her invaded by killing instruments.

People keep saying marriages and civil unions performed by a justice of the peace are sacraments,

No one has said this.

which in my opinion is a huge insult to actual sacraments.

Yes, it would be.

They are, in reality, nothing more than legal documents. Since they have no bearing on any moral aspect of our lives, the church’s stance on then is not infallible, and we are OK to disagree with it.

This is the same as saying that the paperwork that entitled landowners to own slaves to work the land has no bearing on the moral aspects of our lives. If this form of reasoning were true, then the civil war would never have occurred. However, legal documents such as these, which define relationships between the members of society, most certainly do have moral underpinnings.

 

[10gr8kids]

The Church will not be forced to marry homosexuals any more than they are forced to marry atheists.

The Church has always had different rules then the government over who can get married, and they have never been forced to follow the governments rules, and they never will.

If you think about it, it’s an extremely absurd argument.

The Church WAS never forced to pay for birth control. Who knows what might come.

 

[Seeker1961]

The Church WAS never forced to pay for birth control. Who knows what might come.

The Church is STILL not paying for birth control. Organizations tied to religious groups are being required to pay for birth control because they serve the general public, not just members of their own faith. That fact may still upset you, but mischaracterizing what is actually going on weakens your argument.

 

[mitex]

Unfortunately, it sounds like it’s already gone past the man-boy love association:

nationalreview.com/human-exceptionalism/337010/normalizing-pedophilia#

Remember, before Ancient Greek civilization collapsed, they had legalized both homosexuality and pedophilia. What makes anybody think we are on a different track?

Can we stop comparing homosexuality to pedophilia? I’m a celibate homosexual and I find pedophilia to be abhorrent. Please stop making that kind of comparison; it’s hurtful to me. But addressing the topic at hand same-sex marriage can’t happen. God ordained marriage to be between a man and a woman period. Marriage is a sacred institution and celebration.

But at the same time we can defend marriage without making desperate comparisons to the “Man Boy Love Association.” I find both that organization and pedophilia to be abhorrent (not to mention illegal) and I can find plenty of other homosexuals (celibate or not) who would agree with me.

 

[Seeker1961]

Can we stop comparing homosexuality to pedophilia? I’m a celibate homosexual and I find pedophilia to be abhorrent. Please stop making that kind of comparison; it’s hurtful to me. But addressing the topic at hand same-sex marriage can’t happen. God ordained marriage to be between a man and a woman period. Marriage is a sacred institution and celebration.

But at the same time we can defend marriage without making desperate comparisons to the “Man Boy Love Association.” I find both that organization and pedophilia to be abhorrent (not to mention illegal) and I can find plenty of other homosexuals (celibate or not) who would agree with me.

Not to mention that there are about a million miles between a relationship between two consenting ADULTS and a “relationship” between an adult and a child. But to many here, those miles don’t exist-neither do the miles between a relationship between two consenting ADULT HUMANS and a “relationship” between a human and an animal.

The Church will never and should never change Her teaching on gay marriage. However, that does not in any way mean that her members should abandon all rational thought when it comes to talking about gay people.

 

[MidnightSun12]

Can we stop comparing homosexuality to pedophilia? I’m a celibate homosexual and I find pedophilia to be abhorrent. Please stop making that kind of comparison; it’s hurtful to me. But addressing the topic at hand same-sex marriage can’t happen. God ordained marriage to be between a man and a woman period. Marriage is a sacred institution and celebration.

But at the same time we can defend marriage without making desperate comparisons to the “Man Boy Love Association.” I find both that organization and pedophilia to be abhorrent (not to mention illegal) and I can find plenty of other homosexuals (celibate or not) who would agree with me.

You are making the right decision in choosing to renounce an incredibly dangerous lifestyle choice. The cross you are carrying is heavy but because you have made this choice, your eternal salvation is a very real possibility.

That said, there are many people out there who do not yet realize that homosexual activity is a disordered act and they deserve to hear this truth even if it means drawing comparisons that cause discomfort to others. The truth is that, in the eyes of God, homosexual acts and sexual acts with children are displeasing in very much the same way. Just because it has not yet become “socially acceptable” does not make one act less wrong then the other. And just because the consenting parties are “over 18” doesn’t mean that the acts are any less damaging to those involved.

Neither a person with same-sex attraction nor a pedophile needs to feel hurt by this fact, however. Provided that such people choose to renounce these desires, they are as blameless in the eyes of God as any straight, heterosexual individual could ever be. In fact, these individuals are capable of a level of holiness that can even exceed that of many heterosexuals due to the cross that they have been given. Satan tempts people with all sorts of heinous things… it’s only when we start to define ourselves by these temptations that we give satan power over us.

God bless!

 

[down_under]

Can we stop comparing homosexuality to pedophilia? I’m a celibate homosexual and I find pedophilia to be abhorrent. Please stop making that kind of comparison; it’s hurtful to me. But addressing the topic at hand same-sex marriage can’t happen. God ordained marriage to be between a man and a woman period. Marriage is a sacred institution and celebration.

But at the same time we can defend marriage without making desperate comparisons to the “Man Boy Love Association.” I find both that organization and pedophilia to be abhorrent (not to mention illegal) and I can find plenty of other homosexuals (celibate or not) who would agree with me.

I am sorry you suffer from SSAD. I hope you are doing well with your faith on this front. I will pray for you.
I don’t know what you think I said. I am not really sure because I did not compare homosexual relations with pedophilia. never did that. I said If you allow homosexual “marriage” you have no legal argument to stop polygamy. you have changed the point and purpose of marriage not just the appearance and no longer have a LEGAL argument to stop other changes based on the new point and purpose of people being happy. 2 becomes a philosophical accident. It is no longer necessary in this equation and you have no logical reason for it not being changed to 7. If you in turn have no legal argument to stop polygamy then you have no legal argument to stop pedophilia. In that if the goal of marriage is not the raising of the future of society for the betterment of that society but about people being happy, then as long as that 13 year old consents (how that could happen I don’t know but I am not making this argument) there is nothing wrong with the union of a full grown man and a minor like happens in Iraq all the time. This is true and the legal arguments that are being made in the real world right now by the two groups I mentioned. The fact that you don’t like the implications of someone taking what you believe is a good thing to the enth degree is not my intention.

If the definition of marriage is changed and its purpose is altered you have no LEGAL recourse to stop further change which while considered repugnant by you is the only point of Same Sex marriage to them. In short once you pull the plug ALL the water is going down the drain.

 

[down_under]

Can we stop comparing homosexuality to pedophilia? I’m a celibate homosexual and I find pedophilia to be abhorrent. Please stop making that kind of comparison; it’s hurtful to me. But addressing the topic at hand same-sex marriage can’t happen. God ordained marriage to be between a man and a woman period. Marriage is a sacred institution and celebration.

But at the same time we can defend marriage without making desperate comparisons to the “Man Boy Love Association.” I find both that organization and pedophilia to be abhorrent (not to mention illegal) and I can find plenty of other homosexuals (celibate or not) who would agree with me.

you are not in favour of same sex marriage my apologies I stand corrected on that point.

 

[CrimsonThorn]

I feel my marriage is not affected by gay marriage, because it isn’t.

Sarah x

When your marriage is lumped in with SSM, it is being undermined. Perhaps you don’t see this or don’t agree because you don’t really care that much about traditional marriage to begin with, so I can see how you wouldn’t feel affected.

If they started watering down the medical profession and the requirements to be an MD and some joe blow down the street who’s been flipping burgers for the past 10 years can become an MD now with no degrees or training, how seriously would you take the medical profession? Would legitimate doctors and the medical profession as a whole be undermined? According to your logic, you’re saying they wouldn’t. That Joe Blow becomes a doctor shouldn’t affect the real doctors out there, but in the real world, it does.

 

[down_under]

Not to mention that there are about a million miles between a relationship between two consenting ADULTS and a “relationship” between an adult and a child. But to many here, those miles don’t exist-neither do the miles between a relationship between two consenting ADULT HUMANS and a “relationship” between a human and an animal.

The Church will never and should never change Her teaching on gay marriage. However, that does not in any way mean that her members should abandon all rational thought when it comes to talking about gay people.

I think you are being as dramatic as you say we are being. Listen to you really , “abandon all rational thought” really so anytime someone makes an argument you don’t like rather then point out the logical fallacy (assuming you are a student of logic) and actually show how the point is illogical, which you have not done, you simply dismiss the point as absurd.

I have shown clearly how these points are not miles apart but are in fact directly drawn from one another. Logically in the art of arguing, you are then called upon to rebut these points. You don’t dismiss them because you don’t like the implications.

P.S. if you change the definition of marriage to making people happy, you have no LEGAL recourse in stoping a man being happy with his sheep all he wants. In THE LAW you loose the legal ground you had before to forbid this action. We are not even talking religion here. If you allow dangerous, largely (not totally but largely) promiscuous, sexual practices (the only stated purpose of which is people “loving” one another and making each other happy)(note this argument applies to cohabitation which is how we got here) to be written into the law as not only expectable, but the normal you have no LEGAL recourse to stop all of these things which are also very dangerous sexual practices if the man says he love all 12 of his wives and the sheep equally. Again there will no longer be any LEGAL REMIDY to this problem because if you say same sex marriage is alright all the LOGICAL arguments you used to justify this will be used by other people to make legal these other repugnant practices.

In short you don’t like it because the shoe is on the other foot. SSAD is morally repugnant to us. People who suffer SSAD will always have my compassion. I would encourage them to seek out the group courage and give counselling a try which has been known to help at least some repair damage like this. However, people who choose to make it a life style, ignoring the obvious (to me a medical professional) medical danger, and think I should change to suit them, they need to hear this argument and get mad about it. Because there is not Legal difference in Logic and the Law between allowing these various things and MANY groups are making this pre-emptive argument right now. In front of Law making bodies in the various countries. And now the shoe IS on the other foot enjoy.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

I’m not normally one to insult others, but I must say that I feel a few people on here are a few fruitcakes short of a picnic. Claiming that homosexual marriage will damage religious freedom or make homosexuality more acceptable is one thing, but to claim that it will give rise to a fascist, anti-heterosexual state of segregation where heterosexuals are actively discriminated against is absurd.

 

[atheistgirl]

When your marriage is lumped in with SSM, it is being undermined. Perhaps you don’t see this or don’t agree because you don’t really care that much about traditional marriage to begin with, so I can see how you wouldn’t feel affected.

This is the second time you alluded to this matter, so I will ask you again, for the second time now, where did I say I was cohabiting as you claimed earlier, and where have I ever said my marriage was not ‘‘traditional’’ or that I do not care about ‘‘traditional’’ marriage.

Please link to the posts where I said I’m cohabiting, since you claim I have publicly stated this.

Sarah x

 

[atheistgirl]

but in the real world, it does.

In the real world, any doctor who hasn’t passed her medical exams, or who has passed her medical exams but is incompetent in practice, is a danger to me and my family should I ever need her (lack of!) skills and knowledge.

In the real world, Martha, in the office, who has been married to Mary for longer than the average heterosexual marriages last, has absolutely no effect whatever on my marriage.

Absolutely none.

That’s in the real world of course.

In the world that exists in the minds of some people, Martha and Mary’s happy life affirming, loving marriage is the gateway to perverts molesting the underage, men and women taking multiple wifes and husbands, and Joe marrying his Donkey

Oh, breaking news - despite thousands of years of traditional marriage, those things have always gone on anyhow

Who knew

Sarah x

 

[atheistgirl]

In the bigger picture, it affects tradiditional marriage.

Young couples, children growing up, so disillusioned by the experiences they’ve had through their parents and friends, of ‘‘traditional’’ marriage, is what affects ‘‘traditional’’ marriage.

Divorce rates, underlying problems such as alcoholism, depression, addictions, spousal abuse, child abuse, financial, emotional and physical abuse, neglect - these are all the things that negatively affect traditional marriage.

Martha and Mary most certainly do not.

Sarah x

 

[CrimsonThorn]

In the real world, any doctor who hasn’t passed her medical exams, or who has passed her medical exams but is incompetent in practice, is a danger to me and my family should I ever need her (lack of!) skills and knowledge.

In the real world, Martha, in the office, who has been married to Mary for longer than the average heterosexual marriages last, has absolutely no effect whatever on my marriage.

Absolutely none.

That’s in the real world of course.

In the world that exists in the minds of some people, Martha and Mary’s happy life affirming, loving marriage is the gateway to perverts molesting the underage, men and women taking multiple wifes and husbands, and Joe marrying his Donkey

Oh, breaking news - despite thousands of years of traditional marriage, those things have always gone on anyhow

Who knew

Sarah x

What exactly is life affirming about a homosexual union? By the very intrinsic nature of it, it is closed to life completely.