What if the Church did this in response to the same-sex "marriage" debate?

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No no - you are quite free to use the language and try to introduce new phrases, words or meanings. English has no equivalent of the Academie Francaise.
That’s only because the English language has a very mixed pedigree to begin with and no essential elements worth preserving that can be readily identified.
Your ‘mute point’ point was not in reply to me. I’m just barging in to nitpick.

On referring to that URL I see the example given for that definition is:

So that’s not ‘point’ as in remark, but a point in space. Also the definition differs from what you quote, lacking the words I’ve put in red in your post.
I guess I should have expected someone named DrTaffy to be very sticky about the kind of points being referenced even if they are from a less than authoritative source such as the urban dictionary. You are quite correct about my taking liberties with the definition on the site, but, in my defense, I was exercising license with what was an illegitimately contrived definition to begin with.
 
The coming of Jesus (the word made flesh) is such a pivotal event in the history of the world we wrapped time around it by general consensus without much objection.
That’s not quite true. Historically, the countries that we both come from (I assume) were Christian. Due to this, our timeline is based on Christianity, but this isn’t a universal thing. The Chinese have their own timeline, as do the Muslims and possibly the Jews. Our use of AD and BC is a cultural thing, nothing more.
There is a push to call before Christ “before common time”. That in itself is hypocritical. What is common about 0 A.D. If they were going to change the time scheme they why not call 0the discovery of penicillin, gun powder, or the combustion engine. Those things are truly common.
I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. I don’t have a problem with the terms AD or BC - in fact, I like them. I don’t really understand the ‘Before Common Era’ thing, but I also don’t see what the point you’re trying to make is.
We have not drunk the cool aid. We are the most valid religion on the planet in that our God became man a dwelt among us and told us what he thought. This is verifiably true.
Show me, then. If it is verifiable, then verify it for me. I don’t disbelieve in a god for the fun of it. I am sincere in my disbelief, and I do so because I am genuinely unconvinced of the existence of God (or any gods), not for any other reasons.
the fact the you persist in your unbelief so you can live as you please is beside the point.
See above. I clearly don’t disbelieve in a god just to “live as I want”. I still have limits.
more to the point everyone else’s God is our God (there is only one) they just lack the fullness of the truth. By omission, perspective, or totality in some cases. On top of that you have a faith. It is obvious in the face of so much scientific information that validates the Christian position do the detriment of the atheist position.
Show me this scientific information, then. So far, you’re just all talk.
Ask the head of NASA when he verified the primordial molecule theory (now called the big bag) which was formulated by a priest, which is why it was mocked.
So what? How is this evidence of God? I don’t really care if it was ‘formulated’ by a priest. Good for him. I have nothing against Christians. I’m not a bigot. I just don’t believe the same things as you.
There is no getting away from the fact the God becoming man changed the game. Nor can you credibly say that he was not a real person who really existed. If you wish to say he was not God that’s your issue, but you cannot otherwise explain what he did or how he lived or how he was raised form the dead.
No, but I can claim that he wasn’t raised from the dead, that he didn’t do a lot of the things claimed in the Bible, and that he may not have even existed. Keep in mind that I have read a lot of non-Biblical sources on Christ, though. I do have issues with some of them, though. Jesus certainly isn’t the most historically verifiable character in history.
For the record God himself invented marriage. He gave it to the first man “flesh of my flesh blood of my blood”. Don’t believe that fine, but when he came as God and man he perfected the law of marriage. It is now (in the light of Christ, which should have been my original argument all along thanks to the other poster for the mild correction) a profoundly religious idea (even more so than it was). It is the coming of Christ that brought the Old testament into sharp focus.
As far as both I and our understanding of history is concerned, I don’t think you’re right.
To state it plain you are wrong to say we can be ignored simply because we hold a different point of view given to us by the divine.
That’s not what I said. I said purely religious arguments can be ignored.
We are looking at it from your perspective and we can see the damage to the individuals who engage in SSM to there friends and family, to there kids, and by extension to society at large. Deny there is damage if you wish. they did that before the approval of contraception, abortion, and no fault divorce. But the damage done by these ideas is plain to see from here why can you sit there and proclaim that further taking marriage away from its Judaeo-Christian roots would fix the problem? That is not a logical argument. You can’t keep doing what you are doing and expect a different outcome.
As I’ve stated before, there is little to suggest that marriage is of Judeo-Christian origins and there is much more to suggest otherwise. Also, you’ve got to back your claims up with something. It’s not hard. Honestly, there are much, much better arguments against same-sex marriage than this. I think. 😊
 
Show me, then. If it is verifiable, then verify it for me. I don’t disbelieve in a god for the fun of it. I am sincere in my disbelief, and I do so because I am genuinely unconvinced of the existence of God (or any gods), not for any other reasons.
Well, I don’t think it’s “verifiable” that Jesus was Divine. Perhaps down under simply meant that it’s historically accurate to say that a man named Jesus lived.

To deny that is to put yourself in the camp of a fundamentalist. (“You” here being a rhetorical “you”). Frankly, I dismiss anyone who says he doesn’t believe in the historical Jesus and put him in the same genre as folks who believe that we never made it to the moon. It’s simply an absurd belief that prompts this response:



As for “verifiable” proofs of God’s existence, I suggest this site, “Twenty Arguments for the Existence of God” and books by the authors of that site.

peterkreeft.com/topics-more/20_arguments-gods-existence.htm
 
Sorry PR, but all the early Christians who died tortuos deaths have personally verified the divinity of Christ that they witnessed and experienced, with their blood.
 
Sorry PR, but all the early Christians who died tortuos deaths have personally verified the divinity of Christ that they witnessed and experienced, with their blood.
I don’t think Christian martyrdom proves Christ’s divinity, any more than kamikaze deaths proved the divinity of the Japanese emperor.
 
I don’t think Christian martyrdom proves Christ’s divinity, any more than kamikaze deaths proved the divinity of the Japanese emperor.
Or Muslim fundamentalists carrying out suicide bombings proves that Muhammad was a Prophet.
 
I don’t think Christian martyrdom proves Christ’s divinity, any more than kamikaze deaths proved the divinity of the Japanese emperor.
The kamikaze emperor didnt perform miracles and ressurect, did he?
 
Or Muslim fundamentalists carrying out suicide bombings proves that Muhammad was a Prophet.
These people have faith and believe that, but unlike early Christians they didnt experience and witness it themselves.

I dont think the early Christians would’ve died for a lie. They knew for sure and were certain of Christs divinity.
 
I dont think the early Christians would’ve died for a lie. They knew for sure and were certain of Christs divinity.
True, this.

Martyrdom of the early Christians is a strong argument against the atheistic argument that Jesus didn’t really resurrect–that it was simply a huge hoax promoted by the disciples. No one would submit to torture and death, knowing he was really dying for a lie.

But martyrdom is not a good argument to prove Christ’s divinity.
 
Ok. So are you saying miracles and resurrection prove Christ’s divinity?

Because that’s a different argument, isn’t it?
No its not. His apostles witnessed this and they died for it. They verified what they witnessed with their very lives.
 
No its not. His apostles witnessed this and they died for it. They verified what they witnessed with their very lives.
Sure. But that’s not proof, Crimson. It merely says that the martyrs believed what they died for.

Nothing more, and certainly nothing less.
 
Well, I don’t think it’s “verifiable” that Jesus was Divine. Perhaps down under simply meant that it’s historically accurate to say that a man named Jesus lived.
Well, it’s hard to say. I’m guessing English isn’t (I’m assuming) her first language, so it’s not the fault of ‘down under’. She did, however, state that; “We are the most valid religion on the planet in that our God became man a dwelt among us and told us what he thought. This is verifiably true. the fact the you persist in your unbelief so you can live as you please is beside the point.” It is also true, though, that she later seemed to be claiming that Jesus existed as a historical figure, but may not have been divine. It’s hard to say.
To deny that is to put yourself in the camp of a fundamentalist. (“You” here being a rhetorical “you”). Frankly, I dismiss anyone who says he doesn’t believe in the historical Jesus and put him in the same genre as folks who believe that we never made it to the moon. It’s simply an absurd belief that prompts this response:

http://gabrielchapman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/double-facepalm.jpg
Honestly? I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

I mean, I could understand if I’d had said that Jesus’ non-existence was an unquestionable fact, but I didn’t say that. I said he might not have existed. Possibly. Maybe. Not absolutely.
As for “verifiable” proofs of God’s existence, I suggest this site, “Twenty Arguments for the Existence of God” and books by the authors of that site.

peterkreeft.com/topics-more/20_arguments-gods-existence.htm
I will read this, of course, but I’d like to make it clear that I have read many arguments for the existence of gods. I’m not entirely ignorant of the ideology I’m claiming not to agree with. I didn’t just wake up one day, decide to profess a disbelief in God, and go around telling people I don’t believe without even a moment’s hesitation. I’m certainly not as ignorant as you’d like to think I am.
 
Honestly? I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

I mean, I could understand if I’d had said that Jesus’ non-existence was an unquestionable fact, but I didn’t say that.
Oh, say it isn’t so! Et tu, Brute?

You are a “It’s possible that Jesus never even existed” advocate?

Really?

On another note, I’m trying to figure out what your sig pic means. Is that Prince Charles and Leonardo diCaprio skipping? What in the world???
 
Oh, say it isn’t so! Et tu, Brute?

You are a “It’s possible that Jesus never even existed” advocate?

Really?
I think it’s possible he never existed, but I think it’s more likely that the figure of Christ as depicted in the Gospels is based on a real human being (or more than one).
 
I will read this, of course, but I’d like to make it clear that I have read many arguments for the existence of gods. I’m not entirely ignorant of the ideology I’m claiming not to agree with. I didn’t just wake up one day, decide to profess a disbelief in God, and go around telling people I don’t believe without even a moment’s hesitation. I’m certainly not as ignorant as you’d like to think I am.
Firstly, I had no preconceptions about your ignorance whatsoever.

But I will say that if you are of the “It’s possible that Jesus never existed” camp then I will give you the same consideration I give the 6000 year old earthers, conspiracy theorists, man never made it to the moon groups.

Secondly, each argument singularly, taken on its own, may not be convincing enough for anyone. But taken as a group, they are compelling indeed.
 
I think it’s possible he never existed, but I think it’s more likely that the figure of Christ as depicted in the Gospels is based on a real human being (or more than one).
Yeah. I think that’s the more educated position that I can tolerate.
 
Oh, say it isn’t so! Et tu, Brute?

You are a “It’s possible that Jesus never even existed” advocate?

Really?
Yeah, sorry to disappoint you. A few accounts from historians writing in the first century wasn’t really enough to convince me. The only eye witness accounts we have are the Gospels, and their origin is shaky at best. I also find most of their claims to defy reality, and it seems strange that no one else should report on them. Matthew 27:52, for example.

Feel free to set me straight, though, if there’s something I’ve missed. I’m only working with what I’ve read. 🤷
On another note, I’m trying to figure out what your sig pic means. Is that Prince Charles and Leonardo diCaprio skipping? What in the world???
It’s pretty darn cheerful, is it not? I like it.
 
Firstly, I had no preconceptions about your ignorance whatsoever.

But I will say that if you are of the “It’s possible that Jesus never existed” camp then I will give you the same consideration I give the 6000 year old earthers, conspiracy theorists, man never made it to the moon groups.
Ah, hey, sorry. That’s not really a group I want to be lumped in with. If it’s any consolation, I probably have a view closer to ‘Giants’. I mean, I did state that he may not have existed, but I didn’t state as to whether or not I think it’s more likely that he existed than didn’t. I don’t really understand why I get viewed as the conspiracy nut, though. Giants basically said the same thing, but simply worded it differently.
Secondly, each argument singularly, taken on its own, may not be convincing enough for anyone. But taken as a group, they are compelling indeed.
Sure. Thanks for the link. 👍
 
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