What if the Church's teaching on homosexuality is wrong?

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There is. But many reject it.
So if God doesn’t correct everyone else’s religious beliefs, that according to you are wrong, why would he bother correcting the belief that homosexuality is wrong? Why not correct other people’s religious beliefs too?
 
Odd, because homosexuals will not tell you that is true. To be honest I don’t even think that the Catholic Church will tell you that. The church isn’t asking these people to be with the opposite sex, they are asking these people to be celibate…as in they don’t think that these people can be emotionally completed in the embrace of a member of the opposite sex.
They will not because they are fighting against themselves. They are trying to deny something about their own nature.

Any person can be in harmony with his nature by being celibate. However, in order to express sexuality physically, there must be complementarity (2 people of different sexes).

Emotions are fleeting so I don’t count emotional arguments as valid.
 
There are many atheists who live good lives, this is true. But why? It’s because of the way they were raised. Why did their parents have these good values? Because of the way they were raised. Eventually it will go back to someone who had a good christian upbringing, (or perhaps an upbringing from a different religion with similar values).
I am going to take a stab in the dark and say that you can provide absolutely no evidence for this. Am I correct?
 
Then there also must not be a Christian God because it comes directly from Him.
 
What are the negative consequences of a loving, monogamous, homosexual relationship?
Actually, I said homosexuality, not loving, monogamous, homosexual relationship (let’s call it LMHR).

The downsides are documented: higher incidences of alcoholism, drug use, suicide, disease, as well as frequent breakups of those LMHRs.

You could have simply started the post as “there are no downsides to an LMHR” and spare us the “can we really trust the church?” question.
 
So if God doesn’t correct everyone else’s religious beliefs, that according to you are wrong, why would he bother correcting the belief that homosexuality is wrong? Why not correct other people’s religious beliefs too?
Perhaps I missed it, but you havent responded to my post above. And I actually played along (one of the few) with your hypothetical. 😦
 
As for bingbang, your comments on the Early Church Fathers were handled quite elegantly by Garyjohn2!

Edited for: Grammar
I still wouldn’t consider Paul a Jew. He said that the law causes death and the new covenant brings life. That doesn’t sound too Jewish. He also didn’t follow Jewish dietary laws. Other than through his birth, how was he Jewish while writing his letters?
 
How about we turn this around and you defend the practice of homosexuality using only Victorian era literature.

You are basically asking us to tell you why we believe the Catholic Church is right without being able to use the Catholic Church.

Here is my go: Sexuality, whether a choice or a genetic trait, is immaterial to the practice of sexuality in general. Basically, if you are not married, then you don’t get to have sex. But it not even about “getting to have sex,” it is about being able to have the will conquer the body and not the body leading the will. That concept encompasses most religions anyway. The practice of homosexuality is wrong because sex is fundamentally about procreation and secondarily about a deepening of intimacy between a husband and wife and not primarily about feeling good.

Happiness is fleeting; I’ll seek the joy that is found in obedience to God.
 
Then there also must not be a Christian God because it comes directly from Him.
Or so you think it does. Just because the Bible as we know it today has things that might not be as they seem doesn’t mean that there is no Christian God. Does this mean that if creation didn’t happen as it did in Genesis that God cannot exist?
 
So, what are you asking? If the Church is wrong, then… what?

First you propose that the Church might be wrong, then you propose that the reality of the misery and dangers of the active homosexual lifestyle be ignored, then you propose that a person cannot possibly be happy unless they have everything they want.

Well, what if people could nto be happy unless they had everything they wanted? Either you’d have a lot of miserable people, or you would have a lot of lawless people who would then make others miserable.

What if the teachings on homosexuality were wrong? Well, a lot of homosexuals who followed Church teaching would have been spared a lot of misery *despite *the error, if they followed Church teaching, no?

What if the Church were wrong? Well, what if? So what? Following *all *Church teachings leads one to be a better person, and when a society follows *all *of Church teaching, there is a better society.

So in answer to your question, what if the Church is wrong about its teaching on homosexuality? Then there were be even more miserable people around.

One of the beauties of the Church is that if you study the teachings as a whole, you see a beautiful way of life which creates a wonderful society and you see an interlocking set of teachings which is so far beyond anything which man could come up with that in itself proves the truth of the teachings.
 
I still wouldn’t consider Paul a Jew. He said that the law causes death and the new covenant brings life. That doesn’t sound too Jewish. He also didn’t follow Jewish dietary laws. Other than through his birth, how was he Jewish while writing his letters?
Although this is extremely tangental to the argument, the Jewish community considers the offspring of a Jewish person to be Jewish.
 
I’ll play along…

IF the teaching that it was immoral to have homosexual relations was incorrect, then it would still be beneficial due to the pervasive promiscuity in the homosexual lifestyle (over 1 in 3 homosexuals admit to over 500 partners!!!). Homosexual activity is one of the risk factors for AIDS. Homosexuals have the highest rates of STDs of any segment of the population. Just from a medical standpoint it makes NO sense to be homosexual. So urging celibacy would be a VERY good idea.

Especially for males, how can putting something in the out door be viewed as a “good” thing? (I apologize if that was crude, but I dont know a better way to put it)
If you noticed in the first post, I was fine with the church teaching on casual sex. Thus, when I say homosexuality, I mean long term monogamous relationships much like heterosexual marriages. Your issues with homosexuality are present in heterosexuals that sleep around as well. So I am limiting the discussion to marriage type relationships.

As for putting something in the out door, it is how they show love. It is on the same level as vaginal intercourse between a man and his wife.
 
Well…the Catholic Church’s teaching comes directly from the Old and New Testament teaching on immoral sexual actions and those hold true for heterosexuals and homosexuals.

Denominations today are being torn apart over the ordination of noncelibate same sex attracted pastors and bishops.

It is both preaching a false gospel and it is anti-biblical to have either noncelibate same sex attracted clergy or noncelibate single heterosexual clergy.
 
How about we turn this around and you defend the practice of homosexuality using only Victorian era literature.

You are basically asking us to tell you why we believe the Catholic Church is right without being able to use the Catholic Church.

Here is my go: Sexuality, whether a choice or a genetic trait, is immaterial to the practice of sexuality in general. Basically, if you are not married, then you don’t get to have sex. But it not even about “getting to have sex,” it is about being able to have the will conquer the body and not the body leading the will. That concept encompasses most religions anyway. The practice of homosexuality is wrong because sex is fundamentally about procreation and secondarily about a deepening of intimacy between a husband and wife and not primarily about feeling good.

Happiness is fleeting; I’ll seek the joy that is found in obedience to God.
What if you are in fact disobeying God by not agreeing with homosexuality? What then? Your whole argument is based on the fact that homosexuality is wrong according to God…I am saying what if its not.
 
Here is a thought you may wish to consider. If you hear a teaching against church teaching, that is a sign that it is not from the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is Truth and Truth subsists within the Catholic Church.

Ultimately , it’s all about Truth, isnt it? How do we determine Truth? Is it personal opinion? Is there Absolute Truth or should we live in a sea of moral relativism where there is no Truth… where your truth is good for you and my truth is good for me… and it’s all good? This was the whisper of Satan in the Garden of Eden… essentially “Did God really tell you that you couldnt do that??” Did God really tell you that pre-marital sex, or artificial contraception or masturbation was wrong??? How could He possibly tell you that???

I notice also that the your question seems to stem from the focal point of whether this or that action lessens a person’s happiness. I am not sure if this is the most beneficial starting point in weighing whether an action is morally licit or not morally licit from a Christian perspective.
 
If you noticed in the first post, I was fine with the church teaching on casual sex. Thus, when I say homosexuality, I mean long term monogamous relationships much like heterosexual marriages. Your issues with homosexuality are present in heterosexuals that sleep around as well. So I am limiting the discussion to marriage type relationships.

As for putting something in the out door, it is how they show love. It is on the same level as vaginal intercourse between a man and his wife.
Absolutely not. That is like saying we should start inserting gasoline through the tailpipe of a pickup to fuel the engine. The point stands.

As for monogamous “marriage” type relationships, a marriage is a union of two “hetero” (dissimilar) items/things/people, not two “homo” (similar) items/things/people. You do not “marry” a key with another key. A key requires “marriage” with a lock, two “hetero” items come together.

So fundamentally a “homosexual marriage” is an oxymoron. As to happiness within this “marriage”, lets get another hypothetical: I love my dog more than anything in the world. He and I have the best relationship EVER. Why shouldnt I be allowed to marry him? He loves making love to me, and I to him. We are blissfully happy. Who are you to say I cant marry him?

Just a hypothetical of course, but you get the gist of it. Happiness does not make right. Heroine addicts are perfectly happy with their addiction when they are high, does that make it right to tell them to continue doing heroine?

And FTR, I am not comparing heroine addiction to homosexuality, I am just incredibly bad with analogies (metaphors? I get them confused).
 
I am going to take a stab in the dark and say that you can provide absolutely no evidence for this. Am I correct?
Nope! For starters, I know my own sense of what is right and wrong was influenced by my parents mostly! Also, other authority figures that have helped raise me over the years like teachers, aunts, uncles and the like. I’ve seen it in lots of other people as well. If you ever see someone do a good deed, ask them why. They might give a quick response, “it’s the right thing to do.” I would challenge you to really press them. Ask them why…what makes them think so, how do they know. It will end up going to either religion, or how they were raised. Try it out! 🙂

It is a pretty well known fact that parents influence their childrens morals and behaviour. It’s ok if you didn’t know it though. Just think, who taught you that stealing is wrong? Who taught them? If/when you have children, how will you make sure they behave properly as well?
 
What if you are in fact disobeying God by not agreeing with homosexuality? What then? Your whole argument is based on the fact that homosexuality is wrong according to God…I am saying what if its not.
What if gravity does not exist? What if air is imaginary? What if you are just a figment of my imagination made up in a drug induced coma that stems from a methamphetamine overdose I had three years ago?

The what if game can be taken to extremes. Perhaps we should stick to facts instead of what ifs.
 
Or so you think it does. Just because the Bible as we know it today has things that might not be as they seem doesn’t mean that there is no Christian God. Does this mean that if creation didn’t happen as it did in Genesis that God cannot exist?
No I don’t just think that, the Christian God HAS revealed it through Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium, all three sources from which our knowledge of God comes are in agreement.

Now you can say those revelations are false and all the sources of our knowledge of God are wrong if you want but that would also mean the Christian God is a false God as He is based on those same revelations and they are the only knowledge we have of Him. If they are wrong then our idea of God is also wrong and the Christian God actually does not really exist.
 
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