What if the radical Islamists are RIGHT???

[joecap]

I don’t believe radical Islamists are doing God’s will.
The God that I know in the Bible does not justify killing innocent people, women, children, etc.

But I remember right after 9-11 thinking to myself:

I know the terrorists are wrong, but what if, in their mind, they actually believe they are doing God’s will? If they really and truely believe this, our merciful God may actually spare them?
I wonder what went down between them and God right after they died in the crash?

Anybody have any thoughts about this?

 

[KathleenElsie]

IMHO God does not promote evil nor allow evil to do so called “good”.

 

[mschrank]

It’s a bizarre thought, isn’t it? If they honestly thought they were doing God’s will, and did it out of honest piety, then what??

 

[OneAugustKnight]

God is just, and no one goes to Hell except by his own choice.

I imagine the conversation went something like this:

God: You were wrong, but I still love you and forgive you. Please except your penance in purgatory and then join Me in Heaven.

Terrorist: I am sorry, I repent of my sins and resolve to do my penance and sin no more.

or . . .

Terrorist: I wasn’t wrong! The devil tricked me! You are condemning me because I made a mistake! I did what I did to serve You and You are rejecting me! If it was wrong You let me be deceived! :dts:

I don’t deserve this treatment! I had the best intentions in all my actions. If this is what Heaven is supposed to be like I am leaving!"

or . . .

Terrorist: Where are all the virgins and wine? I am outta here.

 

[AKG]

One can be sincere but also sincerely wrong. All the sincerety in the world can’t change the net results. One can sincerely believe that gravity is not real and believing so, cause oneself to plunge headlong off a cliff. Consider the great wisdom that is found in Proverbs 14, verse 12. I don’t recall the exact verse in the Bible, but there is a reference in the NT about people being sincerely led astray and winding up in the same place as the one who led them astray.

 

[VociMike]

We can’t forget that God has written his law on every human heart, including the hearts of the terrorists. So at some level they cannot claim, however sincerely, that they didn’t know any better.

 

[Dirk_Skene]

I think they were doing their god’s will (small “g” intended), but the fact of the matter is that it is the devil they are following.

 

[RWMorris]

We will also be judged according to our deeds, as Jesus said in the NT. The terrorists will be judged not only because of the “piety” in their hearts but by the deeds they accomplished on earth.
Killing 3,000 people is not the way to get to heaven, no matter how pure your motives.

 

[Reformed_Rob]

Maybe it doesn’t matter what you do or believe. After all, nobody is going to knowingly do an evil act, right? People are basically good and so why even bother judging something to be “bad.”

And why even bother judging something to be “good.”

So why even have a Church to teach truth and morality? Especially if God’s not that interested in it.

:juggle: Of course, I hope you realize I’m not being at all serious. I’m just being logical…fallacies.

 

[CuriousInIL]

We will also be judged according to our deeds, as Jesus said in the NT. The terrorists will be judged not only because of the “piety” in their hearts but by the deeds they accomplished on earth.
Killing 3,000 people is not the way to get to heaven, no matter how pure your motives.

So, does this mean that all those involved in dropping the atomic bombs on Japan are/were doomed?

 

[Reformed_Rob]

I don’t believe radical Islamists are doing God’s will.

I know the terrorists are wrong, but what if, in their mind, they actually believe they are doing God’s will? If

Anybody have any thoughts about this?

Joe,

That’s a pretty good question. I won’t pretend to have a very concise response. However my thoughts are simply that we have to look at it from a “relationship to a different religion” and from a “righteous judgement” (John 5:30) standpoint.

Relating to Islam, there is a general understanding among many that in some mysterious way the Muslims are trying to worship the true God. Not everyone would agree, like I said, it’s a mysterious topic. But God wants to be worshipped in truth, and our social and humanitarian beliefs play a part in that.

Which brings us to the “righteous judgement” area. God’s social doctrine and humanitarian beliefs are very different than those of the radical Muslims. Culpability can perhaps be lessened due to their being pysochologically manipulated by evil people, but that doesn’t change the fact that God would have perhaps, at some time in their life, given them sufficient grace to come to a fuller knowledge of truth about him.

 

[mschrank]

So, does this mean that all those involved in dropping the atomic bombs on Japan are/were doomed?

FACT: We would of lost a million soldiers on the streets and beaches of Japan.

I still don’t see why the bombing was wrong.

 

[Reformed_Rob]

So, does this mean that all those involved in dropping the atomic bombs on Japan are/were doomed?

That’s different, they were good patriotic people fighting for the Allied Forces.

Once again, I can’t say I’m entirely serious. I did a speech in my high school modern history class defending the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Said it was the best course of action.

And it may have been the most expedient course of action from a purely militaristic perspective, but I have since repented of my view of it in my speech.

Morally apprehensible. Easy to say now, looking back 60 years. Not so easy when you’re in the heat of a struggle in Japan.

 

[CuriousInIL]

Please understand all, my question:

So, does this mean that all those involved in dropping the atomic bombs on Japan are/were doomed?

follows directly from the comment

Killing 3,000 people is not the way to get to heaven, no matter how pure your motives.

and my wanting to know if that is truly the belief of RWMorris and others.

 

[Reformed_Rob]

FACT: We would of lost a million soldiers on the streets and beaches of Japan.

I still don’t see why the bombing was wrong.

Exactly, they would have been SOLDIERS which is exactly the point. And we may have lost the war.

And history would have taken a major shift. Who knows what would have actually happened.

But a civilized, advanced country using not once but twice, a weapon that completely obliterates all life and leaves a huge area in bad shape for decades, killing innocent people? That’s not war, that’s an expensive way to massacre people.

And it’s ironic, the Japanese are wallowing in radioactive fallout, they consume more than 10x more salt than we do, and they are the healthiest nation in the world. I expect we will badly need them one day and they may not feel like helping us out.

 

[bilop]

It doesn’t matter one whit what the terrorists believed. They committed murder, which is a violation of the natural law. All men have knowledge of the natural law written on their souls.

God Bless

 

[mschrank]

I still say it was justified, our people versus their people- it was a war of people versus people, civilization vs. civilization.

 

[Bennie_P]

FACT: We would of lost a million soldiers on the streets and beaches of Japan.

I still don’t see why the bombing was wrong.

That is not a fact, only a projection. It cannot be a fact for it didn’t happen.

 

[phil8888]

We can’t forget that God has written his law on every human heart, including the hearts of the terrorists. So at some level they cannot claim, however sincerely, that they didn’t know any better.

That’s right, I remember a Pope saying something along the same lines, actually I believe it was B16 who wrote it in a book I was reading recently that he wrote. And what he was saying was that God has put in everyone’s heart the ability to know what is love and what is not, and there is a natural responsibility with that.

 

[fnr]

I know the terrorists are wrong, but what if, in their mind, they actually believe they are doing God’s will? If they really and truely believe this, our merciful God may actually spare them?
I wonder what went down between them and God right after they died in the crash?

No one ever acts thinking they are doing evil. Somehow, no matter how diabolical the action, people justify what they’re doing on grounds – often shaky – that they’re right (or just) in doing what they’re doing. Sometimes it’s as simple as “I deserve this,” or “my family deserves this,” that gets people to act in self-righteousness and commit sin. I think some deep moral instinct must be violated here, which is why terrorist training is so focused on brainwashing.

While intention is commendable, it certainly doesn’t define virtue.