What if there were no Hell?

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Iron_Donkey said:
Robertanthony:

I think you might find the Eastern view of hell useful. As a caveat, I’m fairly certain that it’s actually equivalent to what is said in the Catechism (though at first glance it does not appear to be, and I’ve never been able to find a straight answer), and even if not, the fact that I find it on Eastern Catholic sites as well as Eastern Orthodox sites suggest to me (though does not prove to me) that it at least consistent with the essentials of the faith (that is, that both views are allowed, even if one is more in favor with Western people). But with that disclaimer: easterncatholicspiritualrenewal.blogspot.com/2011/05/god-is-hell.html
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I’m signing off now but will have a look later on. Thank you for the link and for the (friendly) fraternal correction. I know I’m off in some of my thinking. God bless.
 
There are some interesting statements here… but you can not have one without the other, but your question is a Hypothetical Question…
If there were no hell then what is the purpose of a moral society , we could do bad things and have no responsibility for your action… in some ways it could be a good idea, but knowing human nature,people would take advantage of the situation and the world be a bigger mess than it already is.
 
…not because I dread the loss of Heaven and fear the pains of hell, but most of all because it offends you, my God! Who are all good and deserving of all my love.
 
free_thinker said:
If there was no Hell, would you act any differently?
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Obviously, free_thinker, if there were no hell, everything that everyone did would be in perfect conformity with the will of God. We would all be perfectly well-behaved robots and worth exactly ZERO.

Hell is the natural consequence of our free will; our freedom. We can choose for God. We can choose against God. If we choose against Him, we would hardly want to hang out with Him in heaven. The state of choosing against God is to separate oneself from God. Simply put, it is hell.

The Venerable Archbishop Fulton Sheen explained the importance of freedom and how its absence would make for a drab (and ultimately pointless) creation:

*Take the quality of freedom away from anyone, and it is no more possible for him to be virtuous than it is for the blade of grass which he treads beneath his feet to be virtuous. Take freedom away from life, and there would be no more reason to honor the fortitude of martyrs than there would be to honor the flames which kindle their faggots.

Is it therefore any impeachment of God that he chose not to reign over an
empire of chemicals?*
 
Interesting question, this is something I think about most of the time too, the reason being because I’m surrounded by non-Christian friends that I’m really fond of and it’s always a pain thinking about the idea that they might go to hell (nothing is 100% certain)

However, it comes down to the most fundamental question of all: Is there a God(Singular)? If you do not believe in God then the question of hell arises, but if God is indeed real, omnipotent, omnipresent…then there’s no reason whatsoever to question the existence of hell.

Unless of course you believe that God is not pure and holy in essence, then that would go down a different road of debating the essence of God.
 
It may be interesting to note that in Jewish Mysticism (Chabad), everyone will eventually be saved from Hell, but in due time. For them, Chabad infers that Hell is more of a Purgatory.
 
What was the point of the Word becoming Flesh, being tortured, and hung on the cross like a fruit from the tree of life?
 
meltzerboy said:
I disagree that hell is deeply ingrained in human nature, unless I’m not human. As I stated in my previous post, it is not a concern in Judaism. If one is raised Catholic, Protestant, or Muslim, for example, hell might become a part of one’s thinking, but it is not part of Jewish teaching.
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Whether someone dwells on Hell’s existence is immaterial. Its existence, and by corollary its cause, sin, have an impact on everyone.
 
free_thinker said:
I didn’t say there would be no laws or judicial system, I said that there would be no eternal suffering after death. You’d still be held accountable for your actions in this life, just not the next one, because I don’t think God truly judges anyone.

And for the record… there are many non-religious people such as myself who believe in love and compassion and peace for everyone. When I was a Catholic, I feared Hell so much that it was my only focus, and I would do things out of fear instead of love. It was artificial. Now that I am no longer bound to the chains of religion, I do things because out of genuine care, concern, and the good of my fellow man. I’ve actually never felt so spiritual and close to God in my life. I do not believe in Hell anymore, and instead of wanting to commit so-called “sin”, it actually made me a more loving and non judgmental person.
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**
Love, Compassion and peace are non enforcable by human law. For this, you need Divine Law. Catholicism gives a person the compassion that they need to love everyone else around them, due to the fact that the people around them are souls that need to be saved. For example: If there was no hell, why not dehumanize a girl by thinking the most impure things about her? Because there is, I realise that her soul was created by GOD, for GOD, so, I have no right to lust over her or her body, because both are the exclusive property of GOD, not me. Catholicism, when practiced properly and prayerfully, gives us heroes like St. Maximillian Koble. What about atheism?**
 
meltzerboy said:
I disagree that hell is deeply ingrained in human nature, unless I’m not human. As I stated in my previous post, it is not a concern in Judaism. If one is raised Catholic, Protestant, or Muslim, for example, hell might become a part of one’s thinking, but it is not part of Jewish teaching.
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It’s interesting that you say that. I nearly find the Christian understanding of hell to be a logical extension of the Jewish understanding of the afterlife.
I once read on a Rabbi’s blog (or perhaps it was a website) that “heaven” is more like a baseball game than anything else (of course, there’s the joke… etc.). Those who surrender to the will of God more in this life get a “better seat” in the next. If we extrapolate this backwards, there should be some stadium seats that have an infinitesimally small experience of God–to the point where, due to the finite limitation of human nature, there would practically be no experience of God. In Christian theology, that is hell.

Of course, we could also engage in a metaphysical discussion concerning the “existence” of evil as a substantial entity, however I do not think that is an acceptable position in Jewish teaching. But if such a case were true, the soul would, rather than experiencing pain, affliction, etc. on the far end of the scale, would merely experience neutrality. However I still can’t fathom a situation in which evil could not be strictly presented as a privation of God. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

In God our Lord,
Anthony
 
The infinite offering of Christ’s love on the Cross demands a Hell–if there were no Hell then God would not be just.
 
DaddyGirl said:
I don’t agree with this at all.
People don’t hold back from murder, rape, and stealing merely because they are afraid it would send them to hell.

After all…someone can sin and then confess the next day, and be forgiven…and then not go to hell.

I don’t think there is a hell, and I never rape, steal, or murder. Neither do my other friends who don’t believe in hell.
We are good to each other because we want to care for our fellow human beings and want all of us to live in harmony. I don’t need the threat of hell to keep me from murdering them all.

.
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Explain to me why the communists in Russia raped women and shot children. What was wrong with Attila the Hun?

Unless there is a realistic fear of consequences, temporal or divine, mankind degenerates into animals. Even Buddhists have a conception of hell.

What, you think if parents didn’t scare kids about the consequences of bullying they would hold hands and all get along?
 
free_thinker said:
I didn’t say there would be no laws or judicial system, I said that there would be no eternal suffering after death. You’d still be held accountable for your actions in this life, just not the next one, because I don’t think God truly judges anyone.

And for the record… there are many non-religious people such as myself who believe in love and compassion and peace for everyone. When I was a Catholic, I feared Hell so much that it was my only focus, and I would do things out of fear instead of love. It was artificial. Now that I am no longer bound to the chains of religion, I do things because out of genuine care, concern, and the good of my fellow man. I’ve actually never felt so spiritual and close to God in my life. I do not believe in Hell anymore, and instead of wanting to commit so-called “sin”, it actually made me a more loving and non judgmental person.
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I’m sorry to hear that you were so afraid of hell. However, this sounds more like a problem with how hell, or possibly the balance of the possibility of hell and God’s mercy, was presented to you than with the idea hell itself.

I can honestly say (despite the fact that I think it is very real and a thing that we very much want to avoid) that I rarely think about Hell at all when deciding what to do, but mostly focus on just trying to figure out what is right because it’s right (again, on the good days - I’m not going to pretend that I always try to do what is best).

But yeah, hell is always a secondary motivation (or perhaps tertiary). It’s a motivation for during those times when other motivations fail. It is not something that a reasonably virtuous person needs to dwell on all the time.

That said, in our particular society, it appears that a large portion of society is ignoring the higher reasons to do what is right as well and focusing only on doing those right things that make them feel all warm and fuzzy (which generally are actually really good things) and saying that most of the rest doesn’t matter. So perhaps our society could use a healthy fear of Hell.

But the key word is healthy. A healthy fear should temper your actions, but not paralyze you. It’s the difference between being aware that you could drown and so taking precautions when swimming, and being so terrified that you can’t even bring yourself to dip your foot in the ocean.
 
Read everything that Jesus says in the bible.

If you do then either Hell is a reality or Jesus is a liar.

We know that Jesus is the truth.

Many times he speaks of God’s mercy and forgiveness.

Sometimes He speaks of the consequences of the rejection of that mercy which is the reality of eternity in Hell.

Seek Jesus’ mercy and forgiveness and trust in Him.

Believe what He says about hell and how He says that you can avoid it and go to Heaven!
 
If there were no hell, we would not be free thinkers. It is the eternal guarantee of human freedom. Because there is Justice, there must be a hell when there is true freedom.
 
free_thinker said:
I didn’t say there would be no laws or judicial system, I said that there would be no eternal suffering after death. You’d still be held accountable for your actions in this life, just not the next one, because I don’t think God truly judges anyone.

And for the record… there are many non-religious people such as myself who believe in love and compassion and peace for everyone. When I was a Catholic, I feared Hell so much that it was my only focus, and I would do things out of fear instead of love. It was artificial. Now that I am no longer bound to the chains of religion, I do things because out of genuine care, concern, and the good of my fellow man. I’ve actually never felt so spiritual and close to God in my life. I do not believe in Hell anymore, and instead of wanting to commit so-called “sin”, it actually made me a more loving and non judgmental person.
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A god that does not care about our sins is not met merciful, he is indifferent. You believe in a God who doesn’t judge any of us, therefore He does not love any of us. A god who does not love any of use, likely would not give us eternal life with Him
 
free_thinker said:
Imagine for a few minutes that there is no such place as Hell. Imagine that the most saintly people and the most despicable members of society had no punishment after death, and that everyone had eternal life and was joined with God. Imagine that there was no place to be saved from, and the purpose of life was only to have experiences in the physical world. If there was no Hell, would you act any differently? How do your actions now reflect on yourself? Do you find yourself fueled to not sin because you are trying to gain an award or because you are trying to avoid punishment?
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This is what I think: To hate, to kill, to do evil things is bad independently of the question: there is or there is not hell. Why? Because if somebody does that to me I will not like it. That’s it. It is wrong to do it because I do not like somebody to do it unto me.

Love our neighbours, help each other, be kind and righteous is good independently of the question: there is or there is not heaven. Why? Because if somebody does that to me I feel good. I know that it is good because I want to be loved and meet kind people. Buddha taught us: “If you meet somebody try your best to help that person, if you cannot at least do not harm that person”. Jesus taught us to love each other, to forgive each other and especial… no to do to others what we do not like others to do against us.

I am a Christian because I believe in Jesus, I try to follow Jesus… I am called Christian and I like it.
 
Fidelis said:
Religion is only a chain to those who have a skewed view of it. With a healthy spiritual attitude, the Catholic Faith is the most freeing way of life there is.
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This! 👍

There is ultimate Truth, and the Truth will set you free. Otherwise it is just what is MY idea of how people should behave.

Hitler believed that certain people weren’t worthy of dignity and respect. Stalin also killed millions and justified it by his own way of how he thought the world ought to be. Do you thing they were happy?

I look at the martyrs and I know they were happy, that is joyful, in their sufferings.

The idea of what is “good” is relative without a Truth.

Living in Truth is what brings value and joy to life.
 
Si_Net said:
This is what I think: To hate, to kill, to do evil things is bad independently of the question: there is or there is not hell. Why? Because if somebody does that to me I will not like it. That’s it. It is wrong to do it because I do not like somebody to do it unto me.

.
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The problem with this reasoning is the “do unto others” relativist moral value.

If two people want to sin together, then by this logic, it’s all right because they mutually consented.
 
if there were no hell:
  • one would always be in the presence of God
  • one would be sin-free, in a state of beatitude
  • there would be no fallen angels
  • no tree of good and evil and thus no garden
  • no people
    things were not like this even at the end of the first day when God saw that light was good and divided it from dark
 
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