What if you had born into another religion?

[Dave_B]

Thank you everyone for your posts. This thread makes interesting reading.

 

[PJM]

=superwimp;11283605]Hello Dave,

 Catholicism and Christianity in general is a test based religion.  The actual components of the test vary with each sect and also vary over time.  Your post assumes that life is a test where afterwards, based on some criteria, where after we die we are placed in some environment appropriate to are beliefs, or actions during our lives on earth.

 If instead our life here is one of many learning experiences, (reincarnation), then all of your above questions can be answered logically.  First off heaven and hell are not places.  People don't go to heaven, they grow to heaven.

No you won’t go to hell or heaven for being in the right/wrong faith. You will not burn in hell for doubting your faith. What is proof for one person may not be proof for someone else. Personally I think it proves that test based faith systems usually create requirements which are conducive to the faith. Living a good life will help them to grow to heaven.

caution advised

This person is not even a Christian and wnats to give you advice:shrug:

Take this for what it is; one personas [uniformed] PERSOANL opinion

 

[Della]

Hi All,

If we had been born into another religion, we would likely now be in that religion. i.e. if this forum was based in Pakistan and we were born to muslim families, we would likely follow Islam

Would you be destined to hell if born into the “wrong” faith, or do different rules apply?.

The relevant paragraphs from the CCC show that this is not what the Church teaches. Why is that? The CCC doesn’t make it clear in the paragraphs quoted–at least not in plain language. The CCC was written primarily for bishops, so it doesn’t say things in terms ordinary people readily understand. In any case, the reason non-Christians (Christians being defined as those baptized into Christ with the proper Trinitarian rite) may be saved is because salvation is what happens to us at the end of our lives. What we do here, in cooperation with God’s grace, determines if we will be saved. This is because Christ died for all mankind, thus he redeemed all mankind and paid the price of God’s justice.

If you are born a Christian and later come to doubt it, would this mean you would burn in hell?

No. Everyone has doubts. But if we live the life of Christ–that of love and faith, then we will be saved.

Is it therefore greater burden to be born a Christian that in another faith?

Yes, because “to whom much is given much is required.” Those who know the truth have a obligation to live it and to help others to find it.

Does this prove that religion is a product of our environment and is culturally determined?

No, it proves that religion is a universal need of all mankind. What one believes may be culturally determined, but many have overcome that to find the whole of the truth. Still, the Church teaches that every religion contains some truth, which is why it nurtures their adherents. If this were not true, no one would believe in any religion.

If we were born into atheist families, and there are plenty of these here in the UK, we may not even believe in God at all.

This may be true, but we have many accounts of people finding God even though they were brought up in unbelief because, again, the universal need for God exists no matter how hard we might try to squash it.

What chance of heaven do the 90% of UK people get who dont attend church or a mosque. Or do they get into heaven simply for living a good life.

If true, a very sad statistic, IMHO. It only shows that the reformation and enlightenment did great damage in your country. But people still hunger for truth, no matter if they seek it in a church or not. England is ripe for re-evangelization, now that the bias of anti-Catholicism has pretty much burned itself out in the malaise left by its rejection.

It does not add up to me. Or am I misunderstanding? thanks

Nothing adds up if we seek the answers in the wrong places or try to come to conclusions based on too few facts. So yes, you are misunderstanding many things. But we are here to help you, if we can, with what we know.

 

[CrossofChrist]

I think that the Protestant offshoots are just other denominations, all within Christianity.

Correct except that doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t different “religions” or that Catholicism is just another “denomination”. But that’s not for this thread.

My point was that if you were born into a religion, you would *likely *remain in that religion.

If your point is how you are raised influences your beliefs and how you think about the world, of course that is true. Why else would the Church place so much emphasis on raising children Catholic otherwise? But at the same time it’s not like we’re programmed a certain way in whatever environment we are raised in because we all think for ourselves.

I think that is likely on this forum, that many people are cradle to grave catholics, a minority of converts, and a minority from other faiths.

I would actually bet many are converts on this site based off of my experience here. Not many from nonChristian faiths though. My two cents.

 

[wmscott]

caution advised

This person is not even a Christian and wnats to give you advice:shrug:

Take this for what it is; one personas [uniformed] PERSOANL opinion

As evident in the fact that he does not understand that Catholic and Christian is one in the same.

 

[HelenRose]

This is all true, however we also have an obligation to search for the truth. God gave us an intellect to be used. When we have doubts, we can’t just say “I’m not sure about this” and then do absolutely nothing about it. We are obligated to search for truth, to do anything less would be unresponsible and slothful.

You are correct and I am so grateful that God is the One who knows the heart and the soul and understands exactly what the right judgment should be.

 

[PJM]

Della:

The relevant paragraphs from the CCC show that this is not what the Church teaches. Why is that? The CCC doesn’t make it clear in the paragraphs quoted–at least not in plain language. The CCC was written primarily for bishops, so it doesn’t say things in terms ordinary people readily understand. In any case, the reason non-Christians (Christians being defined as those baptized into Christ with the proper Trinitarian rite) may be saved is because salvation is what happens to us at the end of our lives. What we do here, in cooperation with God’s grace, determines if we will be saved. This is because Christ died for all mankind, thus he redeemed all mankind and paid the price of God’s justice.

SORRY, but I see no lack of clarity in the Church’s Teaching

“REEDEMED” is NOT synonymous with “salvation”

EVERYONE IS REDEEMED [able to conditionally attain heaven which had been closed due to Original-sin] SALVATION has many mandates: baptism, keeping the Commandments, forgiveness of sin GOD”S WAY among them.

CCC 780 The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men.

CCC 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

Quote:
If you are born a Christian and later come to doubt it, would this mean you would burn in hell?

No. Everyone has doubts. But if we live the life of Christ–that of love and faith, then we will be saved.

ONLY PARTLY TRUE
ANYONE who dies with unconfessed /unforgiven MORTAL sin is doomed! SEE Jn. 20:19-23 and Mt. 19:17

Quote:
Is it therefore greater burden to be born a Christian that in another faith?

Yes, because “to whom much is given much is required.” Those who know the truth have a obligation to live it and to help others to find it.

THIS IS THE CATHOLIC POSITION

 

[maryandyou]

Go Back Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Non-Catholic Religions
Reload this Page What if you had born into another religion?

you guy are confusing – i thought this was a discussion of

What if you had born into another religion?

because i know many people who are AofG, who have said the simple “Billy Graham” Prayer–

and it was changed their life – gave them direction-- and established a moral platform – for their life–

and when they look at the catholic church-- it seems to them – that it is full of – confusion-- instead of the simple message – that Billy Graham has preached–

they may not have the “fullness” as what is taught here-- but it sure has brought unity and order and the Love of God and Jesus into their life–

 

[PJM]

=maryandyou;11288298]Go Back Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Non-Catholic Religions
Reload this Page What if you had born into another religion?

you guy are confusing – i thought this was a discussion of

What if you had born into another religion?

because i know many people who are AofG, who have said the simple “Billy Graham” Prayer–

and it was changed their life – gave them direction-- and established a moral platform – for their life–

and when they look at the catholic church-- it seems to them – that it is full of – confusion-- instead of the simple message – that Billy Graham has preached–

they may not have the “fullness” as what is taught here-- but it sure has brought unity and order and the Love of God and Jesus into their life–

HERE DEAR FRIEND IS THE BIBLICAL EXPLAINTION FOR THAT

TRUTH IS ALWAYS SINGULAR PER DEFINED ISSUE [CAN’T BE ANYTHING BUT]

SADLY MR GRAHAM DOS NOT HAVE IT

ONLY THE CC HAS THE FULLNESS OF GOD’S TRUTH WHICH IS GUIDED AND GUARDED BY HIM PERSONALLY [JOHN 17;14-20]

SO WHILE HIS MESSAGE IS SIMPLER; IT SIMPLY WIL NOT ACCOMPLISH SALVATION REGARDLESS OF CLIAMS THAT IT WILL.

HERE DEAR FRIEND IS THE BIBLICAL EXPLAINTION FOR THAT

TRUTH IS ALWAYS SINGULAR PER DEFINED ISSUE [CAN’T BE ANYTHING BUT]

SADLY MR GRAHAM DOS NOT HAVE IT

ONLY THE CC HAS THE FULLNESS OF GOD’S TRUTH WHICH IS GUIDED AND GUARDED BY HIM PERSONALLY [JOHN 17;14-20]

SO WHILE HIS MESSAGE IS SIMPLER; IT SIMPLY WILl NOT ACCOMPLISH SALVATION REGARDLESS OF CLIAMS made THAT IT WILL.

http://www.bible.ca/g-sinners-prayer.htm

 

[superwimp]

As evident in the fact that he does not understand that Catholic and Christian is one in the same.

Hello wmscott,
I suppose you arrived at that misunderstanding from this statement "Catholicism and Christianity in general is a test based religion." What I meant here was that the Catholic faith is a subset of Christianity. As PJM noted I choose not to claim the title of Christian, therefore, I don't have a dog in the fight of who is and isn't a Christian. I believe Catholics have just as much right to claim to be Christian as any other sect depending on how they define Christian.

 

[PJM]

=superwimp;11290632]Hello wmscott,

 I suppose you arrived at that misunderstanding from this statement "Catholicism and Christianity in general is a test based religion."  What I meant here was that the Catholic faith is a subset of Christianity.  As PJM noted I choose not to claim the title of Christian, therefore, I don't have a dog in the fight of who is and isn't a Christian.  I believe Catholics have just as much right to claim to be Christian as any other sect depending on how they define Christian.

READ MT 10:1-8
Mt. 15:15-19
John 17:14-20
John 20:19-22
Mk. 16:14-15
Mt.28:16-20

AND DISCOVER THAT WE ARE THE ORIGINAL CHRISTIANS

WE ARE THE ONLY FAITH AND CHURCH FOUNDED BY JESUS CHRIST PERSONALLY [NOT A MORTAL MAN]

John.10: 16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd”

Eph. 4: 1-7 “I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.”

Eph. 2:19-20 “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

And we Catholics are the only “Christians” actually chosen as such by Christ

God Bless you!

 

[Goodforgood]

I believe that part of the problem is that lost, socially outlasted, troubled and/or unfulfilled souls can fall into new “religions” because they are approached invitingly by members of suspicious/unknown groups, invited to attend services and Bible studies, and quickly befriended by watchdog members who are expected to maintain close contact with constant outings so that those souls feel they are and belong to something special. Speaking from experience, my daughter, who is born, raised, educated 12 years, and received the Sacraments, was abducted by the World Mission Society to my shock and horror, and that there were no signs of this coming. She had been a strong, outspoken liberal supporter while in college which made this even more bazaar. She was approached in a parking lot on a Thursday; on Monday attended a “bible study” and came home with the news that she was baptized. Having demonstrated all indications of a cult, it wasn’t till weeks later it was uncovered to her that Christ’s Second Coming already happened, a S. Korean, who died in 1980’s, but was succeeded by a female who they believe and worship as god the mother. To top it off, they can prove these two individuals with passages in the Bible. Their days of observances are of Hebrew lunar/Mosaic feasts under the Law for the reason that Jesus, and the Apostles following His resurrection still practiced these feasts. In addition they are deliberate in attacking Catholicism, the Pope, using seminars, videos, internet preachings, books… It is so distorted, and the majority of members I noticed are her age (22). My daughter is so involved many days of the week at that “church” and now soliciting members of her own in parking lots too. I pray that she will “see the light” for she is unwilling to listen to us and even our priest who tried to help her understand the mis-interpretations she was being taught. I firmly believe these groups/actual cults disguise themselves, are wolves in sheep clothing, preying on the loner, troubled, weak and lost. My daughter feels she is now dedicated to God as His servant, child, a chosen one. But I see her dedication for the purpose of which the World Mission Society serves, to weaken Catholicism, Christianity in general, instill fear into their members that they are God’s only chosen people, to grow their numbers and more than likely their finances. I have no doubt that God would welcome my daughter back in His arms. Please pray for those who have gone astray, under traps of the Evil One.

Sad but hopeful,
Goodforgood

 

[jmcrae]

It does not add up to me. Or am I misunderstanding? thanks

I was born into another religion. I chose to become Catholic because people took the time to become my friends and they taught me about it. After many years of prayer and discernment, I realized that it was the true religion, and I converted.

Missionary work and evangelism are essential - that’s why Jesus told the Apostles to go into every nation and preach the Gospel.

Being born into the wrong religion is not necessarily the end of the story - if people talk about their Catholic faith in a positive way, non-Catholics will be attracted to it.

 

[drac16]

I’m a muslim and was born in a non-muslim family. I believe that every child that’s born into this world is born a muslim; muslim in the sense that they are morally pure and if they were to grow up without any influence from their society or parents, they would believe in Islamic monotheism. This is sometimes referred to as ‘fitra’ and it was one of prophet Muhammad’s teachings (so, as a muslim, I believe it).

One does not have to be born in a predominantely Islamic society to come to understand the basics of Islam; the notion that there is one God who is completely dissimilar from His Creation and that we [humans] were created to worship Him. Besides, there are enough signs in nature and in man’s conscience that show that there is indeed a Creator, so an atheist is without excuse.

 

[ricchetto]

This is all true, however we also have an obligation to search for the truth. God gave us an intellect to be used. When we have doubts, we can’t just say “I’m not sure about this” and then do absolutely nothing about it. We are obligated to search for truth, to do anything less would be unresponsible and slothful.

So why not reading the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ?
How do you know that it is heretic?
If as you say we have an obligation to search for the truth then why should we trust somebody that say it is heretic?

 

[wmscott]

READ MT 10:1-8
Mt. 15:15-19
John 17:14-20
John 20:19-22
Mk. 16:14-15
Mt.28:16-20

AND DISCOVER THAT WE ARE THE ORIGINAL CHRISTIANS

WE ARE THE ONLY FAITH AND CHURCH FOUNDED BY JESUS CHRIST PERSONALLY [NOT A MORTAL MAN]

John.10: 16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd”

Eph. 4: 1-7 “I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.”

Eph. 2:19-20 “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

And we Catholics are the only “Christians” actually chosen as such by Christ

God Bless you!

Thanks PJM for answering SUPERWIMP, his or her further answer to me really shows a total lack of knowledge of the Christian faith otherwise these fallacious statements would not continue.

 

[PJM]

=wmscott;11360310]Thanks PJM for answering SUPERWIMP, his or her further answer to me really shows a total lack of knowledge of the Christian faith otherwise these fallacious statements would not continue.

Your welcome:thumbsup:

 

[Vouthon]

Blessed (soon to be declared saint) Pope John XXIII gave the best answer to this question:

“…If I were born a Muslim, I believe that I would have always stayed a good Muslim, faithful to my religion…”

***- Blessed Pope John XXIII (1881 – 1963) ***

Pope John recognised that an upbringing in another religion (or irreligion) is a very strong conditioner. He would have remained a “good Muslim”, that is one baptised by implicit desire, incorporated into the Church through following the Will of God as known to his conscience and through the aid of whatever is good or true in Islam.

179. Would a good and practicing Jew go to heaven, despite his not being baptized a Christian?

Yes, provided through no fault of his own he did not at any time advert to the truth of Christianity, and to the necessity of actual baptism; and provided he sincerely believed Judaism to be still the true religion, and died truly repentant of all serious violations of conscience during life.

Source: Radio Replies, third volume, by Fathers Rumble and Carty, Radio Replies Press, St. Paul 1, Minn., U.S.A., copyright 1942, page 43.

Or as Blessed (also soon to be declared saint) Pope John Paul II explained:

“…The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all. But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the gospel revelation or to enter the Church. The social and cultural conditions in which they live do not permit this, and frequently they have been brought up in other religious traditions. For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation…”

- Blessed Pope John Paul II, Redemptoris Missio (1990)

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

Hi All,

If we had been born into another religion, we would likely now be in that religion. i.e. if this forum was based in Pakistan and we were born to muslim families, we would likely follow Islam.

Would you be destined to hell if born into the “wrong” faith, or do different rules apply?

If you are born a Christian and later come to doubt it, would this mean you would burn in hell? Is it therefore greater burden to be born a Christian that in another faith?

Does this prove that religion is a product of our environment and is culturally determined?

If we were born into atheist families, and there are plenty of these here in the UK, we may not even believe in God at all. What chance of heaven do the 90% of UK people get who dont attend church or a mosque. Or do they get into heaven simply for living a good life.

It does not add up to me. Or am I misunderstanding? thanks

Hi Dave: When you say it doesn’t all add up to you, can you delve a bit more into what you’re thinking on the matter? I sometimes reply to threads and then find out that I didn’t really understand the question. So, I’m just looking for some clarification. Are you wondering if people can go to heaven only if they are indoctrinated into an organized religion, and if so, is God sectarian in nature, and cares about which one you join? If that’s what you’re wondering, do these questions really have you worried? What do you think will happen to you if you die without having found a faith? Are you afraid that you will be punished for not believing something you weren’t able to believe?

Just asking.

 

[principio]

There are always contradictions concerning faith. And no matter what faith or religion it is, someone always has an explanation to defend what they believe.

One is right, one is wrong, or they are both wrong.

Sometimes you need to listen to your parents and not strangers on the internet.