What if you were not raised christian? Would it make sence?

[allhers]

I heard in an EWTN homily of a pagan man - a tourist - who attended a Mass where somehow a Host was dropped on the floor, and in the crush, no one noticed. When Mass ended, he picked up the broken pieces, licked up the crumbs, then found the priest and told him what had happened.

That man had an instinct for the sacred. He may even have converted.

I know of a man who also converted many, many years ago. He was a janitor at a Catholic Church and he always wondered why everyone who came into the Church genuflected on one knee when they did. One day he asked one of the Priests about it as he said that he felt a Presence there whenever he passed in front of the Tabernacle.
I thought that was simply beautiful the way the Lord called him to Himself.

 

[Monica4316]

Hell also makes no sence. A judge needs a set of rules known by both
the Judge And the person on trial.
Christianity has people meeting God for the first time, on the day to be judged by him.
This makes no sence…its almost comical.Do they get a chance to talk a little before trial, by the way
I am such and such a God and this religion was the correct one, now hear is where you will spend forever.

I don’t think that’s how it is… if we know God here on earth, (even if we didn’t know His name) - when we’ll meet Him, it wouldn’t be like meeting a stranger. But rather, seeing for the first time someone you actually KNOW already. We would recognize Him.
Also, God offers graces to EACH person here on earth, and if they’ll respond to them, they can be saved. Some are given more graces than others, but everyone has enough for salvation. It’s not like people go to be judged knowing nothing. Each is given some sort of knowledge they need to respond to. Even if they never heard the name of Christ here on earth, He still reveals Himself through nature, etc, as it says in Scripture.

I know of a man who also converted many, many years ago. He was a janitor at a Catholic Church and he always wondered why everyone who came into the Church genuflected on one knee when they did. One day he asked one of the Priests about it as he said that he felt a Presence there whenever he passed in front of the Tabernacle.
I thought that was simply beautiful the way the Lord called him to Himself.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Excaliber,

I just thought of something now. What if all christians in some way or another are wrong, in different degrees yet only God knows why each of them individually and as a group are?
And, what if God knows that anyone who was born in a state where christianity was not an option for them, and they lived the best way they could in spite of that and did the very best they could under the circumstances, wouldn’t they still be Reflecting God in some way? Mind you, I do not know what God is. Or know him. But, I am tossing this around in my mind.
I’m guessing its really possible that God will simply just read each person’s soul/being/heart/person on a case by case basis. And if he is just, he would consider the reasons why the person ended up in places they never asked to be in, but were. Or other things that led to their choices they really had no better way of discerning.

But, I do not understand God myself. I think I am talking here out loud to find out what you think about these possibilities. You ask good questions.

 

[TheQuestioner]

Excaliber,

I just thought of something now. What if all christians in some way or another are wrong, in different degrees yet only God knows why each of them individually and as a group are?
And, what if God knows that anyone who was born in a state where christianity was not an option for them, and they lived the best way they could in spite of that and did the very best they could under the circumstances, wouldn’t they still be Reflecting God in some way? Mind you, I do not know what God is. Or know him. But, I am tossing this around in my mind.
I’m guessing its really possible that God will simply just read each person’s soul/being/heart/person on a case by case basis. And if he is just, he would consider the reasons why the person ended up in places they never asked to be in, but were. Or other things that led to their choices they really had no better way of discerning.

But, I do not understand God myself. I think I am talking here out loud to find out what you think about these possibilities. You ask good questions.

Your on track, but once you know the truth you are obligated to follow it.

 

[GodIsGracious]

You also ask very good questions, Strawberry Jam.

Excaliber,

I just thought of something now. What if all christians in some way or another are wrong, in different degrees yet only God knows why each of them individually and as a group are?

Hrm. How to explain? I think many Christians have doubt at one point in their life. When I asked my very dear uncle to be my confirmation sponsor he finally revealed to me (he knows I had been away from the church for nearly 20 years) that he too, at some points in his life, had doubts.

And this is a devout Catholic man who was a Knight of Columbus! And! He prays the rosary every night! And! Periodically (since I was with out a father in my life) he’d have me come over to his small house with his 6 other children to pray a novena for 9 days straight!

So doubt is a very human traight. Remember, we’re human beings. We’re imperfect. We’re called to seek God because he wants us with him.

I am going to send you a PM on this too.

And, what if God knows that anyone who was born in a state where christianity was not an option for them, and they lived the best way they could in spite of that and did the very best they could under the circumstances, wouldn’t they still be Reflecting God in some way? Mind you, I do not know what God is. Or know him. But, I am tossing this around in my mind.

This is a question that pretty much almost everyone has. “What about the remote farmer in some third world country who lives a good life, takes care of his family, yet never gets to hear about Jesus???” There is such a thing that the Catholic church teaches regarding “Invincible Ignorance.” There is “vincible” and “invincible” ignorance. This article can explain it better than me:

I’m guessing its really possible that God will simply just read each person’s soul/being/heart/person on a case by case basis. And if he is just, he would consider the reasons why the person ended up in places they never asked to be in, but were. Or other things that led to their choices they really had no better way of discerning.

The thing about God is that He already knows us. I don’t know exactly where this is found, but there is a quote about God, “I knew you before I formed you” or “I knew you before you were in the womb.” Something like that. (Someone help me here please! ) This means that God already knows us. He knows the circumstances people were born into.

I have an atheist? agnostic? not sure which, friend. I think he said atheist. He grew up in the mountains in Oregon. He said that he never, in his whole life, encountered religion where he lived until sometime in high school. He’d hear about people going to church although he never went. He says he never feels any sort of thing or being or wonderment about God. But, he does admit that his exposure late in high school did leave him wondering about life. He ended up being a philosophy major. Why? To make sense of life. That to me is a call. It is a wonderment of trying to make sense of things. It is but a spark. Sometimes all people have is a small spark, but it is there. Some fan the spark and it flourishes into a faith that is strong, and large, and beautiful. Some simply let it wither away and die.

The fact that you, Strawberry Jam, are on these forums, and you do ask very pointed and good questions that appear to be sincere. Same thing. It’s a call. When someone is called but they don’t know why, they just have questions they need or want answered, the way I view it is it is God calling us. it is said that we have God written into our hearts to seek him. The wonderment, the questioning, why is life? That’s it.

Did you see The Matrix? I absolutely love that movie. Infact, I have a tattoo inspired by it, but has a spiritual meaning to it. Anyway, you know how Neo just … knew? He was … searching? That’s it. That’s the call for The Truth. It is within us all. Some either ignore it, some are oblivious to it, some don’t believe it.

This is how we choose to follow God. When we search and seek out The Truth.

But, I do not understand God myself. I think I am talking here out loud to find out what you think about these possibilities. You ask good questions.

I don’t think anyone fully knows God. When you have a… being, I guess you can use that word, that has no beginning or end, it’s mind blowing. I used to think about the Trinitarian as a kid. I’d try to imagine God’s eternity - his non-Beginning, non-Ending, and always Is. Maybe that is why I was such a quiet child. My mind got into knots and twists! hehe…

Read the link I posted above. That can help with some questions that all people have, even devout Catholics.

 

[StrawberryJam]

God is Gracious,
That was a very interesting read. I bookmarked it, and will meditate on that.
I liked it a lot.
Thank you

 

[GodIsGracious]

God is Gracious,
That was a very interesting read. I bookmarked it, and will meditate on that.
I liked it a lot.
Thank you

I’m glad it could help.

I may not know chapter and verse, nor do I know chapter and verse of the CCC, but boy can I yammer!

 

[excaliber]

God does lead pepole to Himself… but sin leads them in the opposite direction… sin & ignorance, etc… Even so we are all born w/ a conscience & it tells us when we are going the wrong way… The problem is, not everyone listens to that conscience… and/or we somewhat listen but then rationalize, etc… God involved himself by living as one of us and suffering and dying on a cross… (as all of us also have our crosses in this sinful world) it is spelled SENSE… and if people end up in cults, well, their conscience (& those who are in the truth themselves) will tell them this is wrong… God judges people according to where they are, spirtually, etc… Again, ALL are born w/ a conscience… The bible says that “to whom more is givne, more is required.” and also that those who are worthy of “many stripes” will get less stripes (less punishment ) if they are ignorant than those who are not so ignorant. I don’t think we have to worry one bit about justice tkaing place in the end… no one is going to be super-surprised at ending up in Hell… Those who end up there were already “there” more/less on Earth… Going against one’s conscience over and over and knowing one is in opposition to God… is Hell… but people often ignore this so they can succeed in the world. etc.

Sin and ignorance? no. Taoist, hindu,muslims,jews, all try to fight sin as much as anyone else. As far
as ignorance…ignorant of what?

These people are just as well informed on what there religion teaches as anyone else.

conscience…you asume all these
people are going against there conscience? The people in these religions probably feel there conscience is just as clear as ours.

I almost can’t agree with any of your post. I was in a cult, and my conscience was not telling me any
thing…other then that I should be
a better Jehovahs witness.

If people are judged…not based on there response to christ’s teachings…but on how well they
live acording to what they were taught.

Why send missionaries to spread Catholic teaching? Why get people
to convert?

If God will judge a hindu based on how good of a hindu they are, and
a morman on how good of a morman they are. What then is the point?
Catholosism would have nothing essential.

 

[excaliber]

Excaliber,

I just thought of something now. What if all christians in some way or another are wrong, in different degrees yet only God knows why each of them individually and as a group are?
And, what if God knows that anyone who was born in a state where christianity was not an option for them, and they lived the best way they could in spite of that and did the very best they could under the circumstances, wouldn’t they still be Reflecting God in some way? Mind you, I do not know what God is. Or know him. But, I am tossing this around in my mind.
I’m guessing its really possible that God will simply just read each person’s soul/being/heart/person on a case by case basis. And if he is just, he would consider the reasons why the person ended up in places they never asked to be in, but were. Or other things that led to their choices they really had no better way of discerning.

But, I do not understand God myself. I think I am talking here out loud to find out what you think about these possibilities. You ask good questions.

Well acording to human justice, God would almost be obligated to say “Its ok because you didn’t know”.

But why would that be necessary?
earlier in the thread people were saying God was leading and communicating with people in some way. If that’s the case…he could just tell them.

The number 1 mystery in the whole world, in my opinion…
Is why the one person with the greatest communications ability in the world dosent just tell humanity who he is so people can stop being so confused.

There are so many wars because
of different religious beliefs.
I don’t mean pick one race of people like Isreal. Or pick one person in one small part of the earth to tell all mankind a message.

God is so intelligent, that there is no knowledge that he dose not know. Which means that he already knew, that if you (name removed by moderator)lant a desire in humans to want to know God, mixed with no personal relationship WITH communication.
That equals MASSIVE CONFUSION
and more religions then any human can possibly research…

What was the point of that?
God already was aware that this would be what happens, He knew budah personaly. and muhamad and whoever started hinduism.
He knew that if he didn’t introduce himself mankind would begin thinking that any strange feeling…
or strange weather…or anything out of the ordinary was God.

So what is the point of so many religions? God must have knowingly aloud it for a reason.

 

[excaliber]

Im just telling truthfully from my perspective and experience.
And that perspective tells me that
something is wrong here.

You have a lot of preaching one thing and doing another in churches…is this just within christianity? Or do all religions speak one way and act another?

How is that superior to any other
religion? The protestant churches are confused and can’t agree. The Apostolic churches are confused and can’t agree. How is this superior to other religions?

Prayer SHOULD set christians apart, because through Christ we
should be able to approach God better then any other religion in the world…So go ahead and think of something to pray for.

Something God would want you to have. But something you need God
to obtain. That way you can’t give God glory for something you obtained for yourself. Don’t ask for
a feeling…anything could give you
a feeling…are you getting nervous, like you already know you won’t get anything?

Just ask anyway, it couldn’t hurt.
… Are you done?

Ok you prayed for something SPECIFIC so you know its from God. Now WHEN YOU DON’T GET
IT, you will begin making excuses
about mabey you need to work harder or pray again or put more
money in the basket or your not holy enuff…etc…etc

How is praying and making excuses because it didn’t work
superior to any other religion?

I mean realy…are we Christian
just because we were raised that way…or it just sounds good and
makes you feel good to think your
going to heaven.

Are you going to think about these
things. Or assume faith is the issue…you just need to believe, or go to hell. Dose that scare you away from thinking?

Obviously there is a God.
But do we have the right one?

 

[StrawberryJam]

Im just telling truthfully from my perspective and experience.
And that perspective tells me that
something is wrong here.

You have a lot of preaching one thing and doing another in churches…is this just within christianity? Or do all religions speak one way and act another?

How is that superior to any other
religion? The protestant churches are confused and can’t agree. The Apostolic churches are confused and can’t agree. How is this superior to other religions?

Prayer SHOULD set christians apart, because through Christ we
should be able to approach God better then any other religion in the world…So go ahead and think of something to pray for.

Something God would want you to have. But something you need God
to obtain. That way you can’t give God glory for something you obtained for yourself. Don’t ask for
a feeling…anything could give you
a feeling…are you getting nervous, like you already know you won’t get anything?

Just ask anyway, it couldn’t hurt.
… Are you done?

Ok you prayed for something SPECIFIC so you know its from God. Now WHEN YOU DON’T GET
IT, you will begin making excuses
about mabey you need to work harder or pray again or put more
money in the basket or your not holy enuff…etc…etc

How is praying and making excuses because it didn’t work
superior to any other religion?

I mean realy…are we Christian
just because we were raised that way…or it just sounds good and
makes you feel good to think your
going to heaven.

Are you going to think about these
things. Or assume faith is the issue…you just need to believe, or go to hell. Dose that scare you away from thinking?

Obviously there is a God.
But do we have the right one?

If there is a God, he sure seems to be very uninterested in what is going on here now.
Do you have the right one?
Have you chosen wisely?

Or is there even really a choice?

I see people saying a lot of things about God, and wish that there was a way to know if any or even some of those things were fact and not just imaginations run wild.

 

[excaliber]

If there is a God, he sure seems to be very uninterested in what is going on here now.
Do you have the right one?
Have you chosen wisely?

Or is there even really a choice?

I see people saying a lot of things about God, and wish that there was a way to know if any or even some of those things were fact and not just imaginations run wild.

Lets gather what we KNOW to be fact. We were created, humans and the planet is far far to complex and well designed. Anyone with the knowledge and power to design us is worthy of the title God.

Did God want us to continue on alone, or try to contact him in some way? Lets just use pure logic
…we were made capable of talking to each other, but not made capable of comunicating
in the same way with God.

In fact if knowone told you that closing your eyes and praying was
comunicating, you would have logicaly concluded that God left you know way to contact him.

If knowone told you that reading a book like bible or koran was like comunicating with God, the idea would never have come to you, and you would have concluded that God had never spoken with you directly in your life and therefore was not interested in contacting you eather.

Even if you could contact him, what could you tell him that he would care to hear, he is far more
inteligent then us.

If you could forget everything other people told you to believe.
And just use your own experience,
what would you say our purpose
was?
Entertainment? Like our pets are to us? Its a logical conclusion.

Now ofcourse Christianity sounds
waaaay bettter. God loving you
more then you could possibly know, sounds better then any other story I can think of. But must
be believed by faith, because logic
asks…why would God love you that much? There is nothing you can give him…we can’t even give
inteligent conversation. If God dose love us, he dosent have much reason to.

He could have put us here, and said " I will go and make other worlds and come back and check
on earth in a million years or so".

Sounds out there but it would explain the obvious design of mankind and obvious lack of plain comunication.

 

[Charlotte408]

I myself was not raised Christian. My grandma, rather, faced with a christian in public, or at the door would say, ‘stay away from them Charlotte, those are *church people’ *… like they were some cult or something and even being around them would rub some sort of dysfunction off on me…My mom, had me at 14 and, lets just say I didnt have very much guidance or parental control growing up…

If you never heard of Christianity,
but was in search of God and went
in a Catholic church for the first time. And you saw a large replica
of a Man hanging from a tourture
device…what would you think??

I’d be in awe…I remeber the first time I did walk into a catholic church…everything was so magnificent and awe inspiring…(St. Jospehs, San Jose CA) …it made me feel like I was puny…and there was something bigger than me…as massive as it felt…i didnt feel scared…kinda like when you sit looking at the stars as a kid, and realize how insignificant you are…

would you you turn and walk away
then and there??

No, even though I already had this predisposed idea against them from the way I was raised…by the time I had made my way into this church I had already been thru so much on the streets, I needed answers, or, something REAL, idk what exactly I was looking for, but, something was definitely missing…

Lets say you don’t leave and you ask who is that man hanging dead
on the wall…and a Christian told
you it was God…would you laugh and leave? Remember you were not raised to think this way??

Well, someone didnt come just right out and say ‘Hey thats God over there’…I was told the story so the crucification made sense…but…I never felt like …it couldnt or wasnt true…I listened with an open mind, and every thing I learned (still learning) it all makes perfect sense to me…See, I’ve lived REAL life…not some sheltered christian lifestyle…(totally no offense )…so i know some COLD HARD truths about it…and all the morals/values I already have I got from life, and experiences…everything I’ve been told, it all coincides with those…compassion, love, respect, respect for life…our faith makes perfect sense…

So lets say you don’t leave, and you see communion. So you ask what is this? Then a Christian told you they were eating Gods flesh and drinking his blood. Then you would definitely leave thinking Christians were radical.

No I didnt…

 

[excaliber]

I myself was not raised Christian. My grandma, rather, faced with a christian in public, or at the door would say, ‘stay away from them Charlotte, those are *church people’ *… like they were some cult or something and even being around them would rub some sort of dysfunction off on me…My mom, had me at 14 and, lets just say I didnt have very much guidance or parental control growing up…

I’d be in awe…I remeber the first time I did walk into a catholic church…everything was so magnificent and awe inspiring…(St. Jospehs, San Jose CA) …it made me feel like I was puny…and there was something bigger than me…as massive as it felt…i didnt feel scared…kinda like when you sit looking at the stars as a kid, and realize how insignificant you are…

No, even though I already had this predisposed idea against them from the way I was raised…by the time I had made my way into this church I had already been thru so much on the streets, I needed answers, or, something REAL, idk what exactly I was looking for, but, something was definitely missing…

Well, someone didnt come just right out and say ‘Hey thats God over there’…I was told the story so the crucification made sense…but…I never felt like …it couldnt or wasnt true…I listened with an open mind, and every thing I learned (still learning) it all makes perfect sense to me…See, I’ve lived REAL life…not some sheltered christian lifestyle…(totally no offense )…so i know some COLD HARD truths about it…and all the morals/values I already have I got from life, and experiences…everything I’ve been told, it all coincides with those…compassion, love, respect, respect for life…our faith makes perfect sense…

No I didnt…

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you have the answers
that you say you do.

You said real life experience, and
Christianity made sence…well
would you like to elaborate.

Keep in mind that anything can seem better then nothing. So if you were raised with little or no direction, and then went to a buddhist temple or virtualy any other temple, its possible you could have been impressed.

And any of them could have taught
you morals.

Now keep in mind I am not trying to persuade you one way or another. The Catholic and Orthodox churches make the most
sence IN CHRISTIANITY.

But I would like to hear your conclusion on faith and reason.
Dose your faith match your reason
on everyday world events?

 

[StrawberryJam]

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you have the answers
that you say you do.

You said real life experience, and
Christianity made sence…well
would you like to elaborate.

Keep in mind that anything can seem better then nothing. So if you were raised with little or no direction, and then went to a buddhist temple or virtualy any other temple, its possible you could have been impressed.

And any of them could have taught
you morals.

Now keep in mind I am not trying to persuade you one way or another. The Catholic and Orthodox churches make the most
sence IN CHRISTIANITY.

But I would like to hear your conclusion on faith and reason.
Dose your faith match your reason
on everyday world events?

I think I see what you are driving at here, but I could be wrong. If I am reading you correctly, are you suggesting that a child with no exposure to any religion would be pure of religious dogmas and would search or not search for God based on other criteria then their personal exposures in life?

Because if that is what you are saying, I would have to agree with you IMHO and in my personal experiences.

 

[excaliber]

I think I see what you are driving at here, but I could be wrong. If I am reading you correctly, are you suggesting that a child with no exposure to any religion would be pure of religious dogmas and would search or not search for God based on other criteria then their personal exposures in life?

Because if that is what you are saying, I would have to agree with you IMHO and in my personal experiences.

I think so, we are just about on the same page here.

 

[Charlotte408]

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you have the answers
that you say you do.

You said real life experience, and
Christianity made sence…well
would you like to elaborate.

Well, I could sit here for days and tell you about lessons I’ve learned first hand…things I’ve been thru, friends I’ve lost to drunk driving, gang banging…drug deals…Yeah, I dropped out freshman year…lost my first homegirl at 17 (her man beat her and finally he lost it and stabbed her)…I’ve lost 4 friends since then from random things like gangs, drunk driving, drugs…I had 3 family members deported…my daughters father is LOST, completely LOST to methamphetamines…and you have NO IDEA what it is like to watch someone you love die in front of you and theres nothing you can do about it…I had to leave because it got to the point that he was locking me and her in a room and smokin’ it in front of us, cuz he was scared I’d run out and call the cops…and he was stealing her new toys cuz they were in the boxes and he could return em for money…sickening…I’ve had girlfriends that used abortion as a form of contraception…one in particular I’m thinkin of has had at least 7, but its been years since I talked to her…but yeah, I’ve seen chicks spiral downwards and just lose themselves…from abortions, partying, drugs…casual sex…I think personally its guilt…self hate…but maybe she just didnt recognize the problem…what she was really DOING to herself…now I see her every so often walking down the street barefoot…going from bar to bar…I just drive by…

yeah dude I myself almost caught a case…I was looking at 14 years…and at the time I was in jail I was 5 months pregnant…thank GOD it wasnt in His plan for me to end up like most of the people who grew up with me…I could go on for days my friend…my grandma used to say ‘the best lessons are hardest learned’…and I really feel like, you know how they say ‘god works in mysterious ways’??? I used to cry…and wonder…why is my life like this??? Everyone I knew could barely ‘get by’, let alone ‘get ahead’…but, its like, if i hadnt gone thru so many things, and seen first hand what- drugs do to people, how they ruin your life, how, not having respect for yourself, for your body, for life, how it KILLS you inside…if I hadnt lost so many loved ones, would I have appreciated my time here? and all the little things most take for granted…would I have REALLY and TRULY understood and believed it if someone had just told me?? Keep in mind I’m one solid, hard headed chick…

But it almost sounds like my personal experiences or anyones, wouldnt be enough to sway you, and I wouldnt even try to do that anyways, because its not my place to do…God will call you and court you all on His own…in His own time…And there’s no way I can reason with you…cause…I’m just an every day girl you know?? I dont have all the answers… and its not REASON…idk…its just something I KNOW, I FEEL inside…all I can do is hope one day you feel that too…

Keep in mind that anything can seem better then nothing. So if you were raised with little or no direction, and then went to a buddhist temple or virtualy any other temple, its possible you could have been impressed.

Ummmmm…well…I hope this doesnt offend anyone, its just again, how I feel…and I’m not the most articulate person…using big words or whatever…but like, I think what it is, is, I’ve been into buddhists temples, things like that…and yeah, theyre hecka pretty and I was impressed…but it wasnt the same kinda feeling…maybe on some underlying level I didnt feel like I coud ‘relate’??? maybe because of cultural differences?? it felt ‘peaceful’ there…but…I never once felt the PRESENCE of God…not like in a catholic church…maybe thats because buddhist dont believe in a god?? its like theres something missing its just not enough…i’m sure your right, they could have taught me morals…but He wasnt there…and thats whats missing…maybe thats why I didnt turn into a buddhist, it wasnt enough to satisfy what I needed…it could only take someone half way…i know that from the beggining of time, every people, every culture has had some form of God, or Gods…its like were ‘hardwired’ to find Him…and I took a child development class a couple of semesters ago, and they were saying that from the time were adolescents, we click up and try to find like, groups to establish ourselves, who we are…its like we long for something more to complete us, when alone were fine already…so what is this missing thing that so many feel empty without…I’m tellin you its that man above!!

I know your not tryin to persuade me…and I’m not tryin to persuade you either hun…I just wish I could articulately put together some kind of logical rational argument that would totally stump you…but i dont think it’ll ever come to that…no one ever will be able to…its something that once your ready, you’ll just know…ya know??

 

[excaliber]

Well, I could sit here for days and tell you about lessons I’ve learned first hand…things I’ve been thru, friends I’ve lost to drunk driving, gang banging…drug deals…Yeah, I dropped out freshman year…lost my first homegirl at 17 (her man beat her and finally he lost it and stabbed her)…I’ve lost 4 friends since then from random things like gangs, drunk driving, drugs…I had 3 family members deported…my daughters father is LOST, completely LOST to methamphetamines…and you have NO IDEA what it is like to watch someone you love die in front of you and theres nothing you can do about it…I had to leave because it got to the point that he was locking me and her in a room and smokin’ it in front of us, cuz he was scared I’d run out and call the cops…and he was stealing her new toys cuz they were in the boxes and he could return em for money…sickening…I’ve had girlfriends that used abortion as a form of contraception…one in particular I’m thinkin of has had at least 7, but its been years since I talked to her…but yeah, I’ve seen chicks spiral downwards and just lose themselves…from abortions, partying, drugs…casual sex…I think personally its guilt…self hate…but maybe she just didnt recognize the problem…what she was really DOING to herself…now I see her every so often walking down the street barefoot…going from bar to bar…I just drive by…

yeah dude I myself almost caught a case…I was looking at 14 years…and at the time I was in jail I was 5 months pregnant…thank GOD it wasnt in His plan for me to end up like most of the people who grew up with me…I could go on for days my friend…my grandma used to say ‘the best lessons are hardest learned’…and I really feel like, you know how they say ‘god works in mysterious ways’??? I used to cry…and wonder…why is my life like this??? Everyone I knew could barely ‘get by’, let alone ‘get ahead’…but, its like, if i hadnt gone thru so many things, and seen first hand what- drugs do to people, how they ruin your life, how, not having respect for yourself, for your body, for life, how it KILLS you inside…if I hadnt lost so many loved ones, would I have appreciated my time here? and all the little things most take for granted…would I have REALLY and TRULY understood and believed it if someone had just told me?? Keep in mind I’m one solid, hard headed chick…

But it almost sounds like my personal experiences or anyones, wouldnt be enough to sway you, and I wouldnt even try to do that anyways, because its not my place to do…God will call you and court you all on His own…in His own time…And there’s no way I can reason with you…cause…I’m just an every day girl you know?? I dont have all the answers… and its not REASON…idk…its just something I KNOW, I FEEL inside…all I can do is hope one day you feel that too…

Ummmmm…well…I hope this doesnt offend anyone, its just again, how I feel…and I’m not the most articulate person…using big words or whatever…but like, I think what it is, is, I’ve been into buddhists temples, things like that…and yeah, theyre hecka pretty and I was impressed…but it wasnt the same kinda feeling…maybe on some underlying level I didnt feel like I coud ‘relate’??? maybe because of cultural differences?? it felt ‘peaceful’ there…but…I never once felt the PRESENCE of God…not like in a catholic church…maybe thats because buddhist dont believe in a god?? its like theres something missing its just not enough…i’m sure your right, they could have taught me morals…but He wasnt there…and thats whats missing…maybe thats why I didnt turn into a buddhist, it wasnt enough to satisfy what I needed…it could only take someone half way…i know that from the beggining of time, every people, every culture has had some form of God, or Gods…its like were ‘hardwired’ to find Him…and I took a child development class a couple of semesters ago, and they were saying that from the time were adolescents, we click up and try to find like, groups to establish ourselves, who we are…its like we long for something more to complete us, when alone were fine already…so what is this missing thing that so many feel empty without…I’m tellin you its that man above!!

I know your not tryin to persuade me…and I’m not tryin to persuade you either hun…I just wish I could articulately put together some kind of logical rational argument that would totally stump you…but i dont think it’ll ever come to that…no one ever will be able to…its something that once your ready, you’ll just know…ya know??

Hmmm this information is helpful.
We come from COMPLETE OPPOSITE life experiences. I was
raised in a strict church, and actualy worked for that church fulltime for years…never did a drug in my life. Perhaps its so hard for me to FIND God because he has never been missing from my life.

What do you think strawberry Jam?

 

[StrawberryJam]

Hmmm this information is helpful.
We come from COMPLETE OPPOSITE life experiences. I was
raised in a strict church, and actualy worked for that church fulltime for years…never did a drug in my life. Perhaps its so hard for me to FIND God because he has never been missing from my life.

What do you think strawberry Jam?

Like you, I chose not to pollute my mind with drugs. I read many conversion stories about people who did drugs and their lives spiraled out of control and then they decided to embrace God, after realizing the enormity of their actions and lack of control.
But, I can not relate to that kind of experience personally. So, it is hard for me to see what it is that all clicked together for those who did.
What you say about why it is hard for you to find God, is giving me a lot more to consider.
You sound **Found **to me.
Maybe it is the ideas men have about God that is hardest of all, and perhaps not God that is so hard to know.

 

[imjustme]

I heard in an EWTN homily of a pagan man - a tourist - who attended a Mass where somehow a Host was dropped on the floor, and in the crush, no one noticed. When Mass ended, he picked up the broken pieces, licked up the crumbs, then found the priest and told him what had happened.

That man had an instinct for the sacred. He may even have converted.

It is not surprising that a Pagan believed the eucharist to be sacred. The Pagans celebrated sacred meals with their God prior to the Christian Church.