What if "Your" mass time was switched from OF to EF. What would you do?

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

I voted #1 for the same reason you voted for #3, excepted switch the OF with the EF.

Personally I feel like I participate far more deeply at the EF than I do at the NO, but that is mainly do to the fact that it is hard to focus properly on the Mass when you have many abuses and an overwhelming lack of reverence.

Thankfully we have very reverent Masses, and time for silent participation, as well as singing & responses. I am sorry you can’t experience this.

Lux

 

[Melissa]

I love your story -
First of all because you didn’t throw in the towel when you got off schedule.
Secondly because it demonstrates what I always figured, that parishes will take appropriate measures to get folks up to speed and even your son, not knowing Latin, was able to “tough it out” so to speak.
I realize that it was still a bit rough around the edges for you but sounds like everyone weathered it well.

Peace
James

Well, at that point, I really had no choice about the 4pm Mass (which I’d entirely forgotten was EF until we got there), since the alternative was dropping the ball on one of two obligations for later in the day (baseball playing son is also a pitcher for his team, so his absence would’ve been bad; skipping Mass altogether that day once I’d been reminded would’ve been an issue, too).

Interestingly enough, oldest son decided he wanted to serve another EF Mass so he’d be more sure of himself getting it right, so he went to serve a Sunday EF Mass, too (after he’d already served our usual time OF). He’s 14, and I keep having these suspicions of his vocation, but he presently thinks he wants to be an accountant & is interested in girls–so I just keep my mouth shut and pray (what else can a mother do).

So, I don’t think I’d necessarily seek out the EF deliberately (like if another parish made their 9am the EF), but I’m glad for having the experience, and if my parish switched the time to 9am, I’d stick w/ my 9am time.

 

[JRKH]

Well, at that point, I really had no choice about the 4pm Mass (which I’d entirely forgotten was EF until we got there), since the alternative was dropping the ball on one of two obligations for later in the day (baseball playing son is also a pitcher for his team, so his absence would’ve been bad; skipping Mass altogether that day once I’d been reminded would’ve been an issue, too).

Interestingly enough, oldest son decided he wanted to serve another EF Mass so he’d be more sure of himself getting it right, so he went to serve a Sunday EF Mass, too (after he’d already served our usual time OF). He’s 14, and I keep having these suspicions of his vocation, but he presently thinks he wants to be an accountant & is interested in girls–so I just keep my mouth shut and pray (what else can a mother do).

So, I don’t think I’d necessarily seek out the EF deliberately (like if another parish made their 9am the EF), but I’m glad for having the experience, and if my parish switched the time to 9am, I’d stick w/ my 9am time.

What a wonderful son. God has truly Blessed you.

Peace
James

 

[preV2tradcath]

What a wonderful son. God has truly Blessed you.

Peace
James

Indeed He has. Being in charge of the servers for the EF I attend, I find it interesting that he seems willing to serve both forms. Good for him.

 

[Sarabande]

As others have mentioned, to me as long as either mass is reverent I feel equally as comfortable attending the EF as I do the OF, so if I had a regular mass time, I’d still attend. If I was still cantoring every week like I did until very recently, I probably would still attend the same mass even if the mass I was typically hired to sing for was turned into the TLM and I couldn’t cantor anymore. It wouldn’t matter to me as I do love the TLM for its reverence and spiritual beauty. But now, because of my schedule as a musician, I just attend any mass that I can - early or late. I’ll take what I can get at this point, although today’s mass at this church I attended for the first time due to my schedule was quite horrid - at least in terms of eardrum piercing volume of the amplification of the mics. It was killing my ears so much at points whenever the cantor sung (she obviously did not know that a trained voice shouldn’t be eating the mic and should stay far away from it when singing) that I had to discreetly cover my ears to avoid being deafened by the amplification. I literally had an earache afterwards. I sang along in order to help me focus off the pain and so that the people around me would start singing since it seemed like most of them were too overpowered by the cantor, so when they heard me sing in the pew, they started singing. Give me decent choirs and unmiked voices or standing away from the mics any time - but that is for another thread.

 

[palmas85]

You know these types of polls disturb me a great deal and I’ll tell you why. When I went overseas the Mass was still being said in the Traditional manner. When I cane back it was all Pauline. The overwhelming number of us accepted this transition even if we did not like what was happening and felt totally lost due to the rampant experimentation and abuses that were going on. We accepted it because the Church said we were to accept it. There was no remedy, no opportunity to adapt. The Mass was essentially gone, ripped away like a cancer. It hurt, it saddened many of but we dealt with it through obedience.

I wonder how many of those pious souls on this board who relentlessly describe themselves as obedient to the Church would do the same today if the Mass were switched back. I would wager there would be a mass exodus just based on the general opinions thrown up this and other forums.

I may be wrong and I know there will be a lot of heat brought down on me because of it but at least be honest with yourselves if not with anyone else. Many of you, and you know who you are, would never accept the Traditional Mass at all in any way shape or form.
.
And you know it.

 

[Ohwesty]

I hope this becomes a reality in every diocesan parish. The EF should be offered in one of the Sunday time slots for those who wish to attend. If the Church is modern and has no high altar then another table can still be used. If the Church has no communion rail then the “first pew” all the way across can be used for the reception of Communion.

I usually attend the 9AM or 11AM, switching back and forth. If the EF was offered in one of those time slots I would certainly attend, though maybe not every single week. The important thing is that *every *Mass be offered as reverently as possible. Catholics should not have to “shop around” (or drive 100 miles) to find a reverent Mass!

• Westy

 

[EasterJoy]

I hope this becomes a reality in every diocesan parish. The EF should be offered in one of the Sunday time slots for those who wish to attend. If the Church is modern and has no high altar then another table can still be used. If the Church has no communion rail then the “first pew” all the way across can be used for the reception of Communion.

I usually attend the 9AM or 11AM, switching back and forth. If the EF was offered in one of those time slots I would certainly attend, though maybe not every single week.

Let’s put it this way: our family has to work around hospital schedules and obligations with out-of-town family. How the time fits in with how we plan to spend the rest of the day–do the kids need to sleep in, will we be getting food ready for company all Sunday morning, how does a particular Mass time fit in with food preparation choices–is one factor, when there is a choice. Which liturgy I like best is another. If I lived somewhere with only one Mass time, then we’d work around that. We wouldn’t regularly drive 100 miles to go somewhere else unless the liturgy were actually unbearable. We would drive 100 miles if that was all there was and we could in any way afford it.

I like the NO best for right now, but I wouldn’t actively avoid the EF. I probably wouldn’t make it the primary Mass I went to, but, you never know. It’s very nice. I know some Latin. There weren’t any women allowed near the altar when I was growing up, except to clean it and deal with the flowers. I didn’t find that an awful thing…most of the parish never served at the altar during Mass, after all. The EF could grow on me.

So yes, if my parish had the EF in one of its regular Mass times, I’d go to it at least some of the time.

 

[THutch04]

Well if it were an option I would go at a different time, but I don’t have a hatred of the EF, I just don’t prefer to go to it every Sunday. If there were no other time at that particular parish, I’d probably find somewhere else to go. I’m not actually registered at a parish anyway, so really I don’t have a “my” Mass time. I just go whenever is convenient for me.

 

[pnewton]

I may be wrong and I know there will be a lot of heat brought down on me because of it but at least be honest with yourselves if not with anyone else. Many of you, and you know who you are, would never accept the Traditional Mass at all in any way shape or form.
.
And you know it.

I believe you are totally off on how large of a problem this would be. There might be a smattering, but I do not think most of the laity would defect. I believe the larger problem would come from a handful of priests who would resist, or mutilate the TLM out of spite. It would not take many of these to make a stink.

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

I would try the EF, hoping my Latin would get better. And then I would make a decision on my schedule.

 

[JRKH]

You know these types of polls disturb me a great deal and I’ll tell you why. When I went overseas the Mass was still being said in the Traditional manner. When I cane back it was all Pauline. The overwhelming number of us accepted this transition even if we did not like what was happening and felt totally lost due to the rampant experimentation and abuses that were going on. We accepted it because the Church said we were to accept it. There was no remedy, no opportunity to adapt. The Mass was essentially gone, ripped away like a cancer. It hurt, it saddened many of but we dealt with it through obedience.

Alsthough I was rather young when the switch occurred, I do remember everyone talking about it. The “older” adults, especially my Grandparents, just didn’t see any need for change. Even at the tender age of 11, I couldn’t understand why the change had to be so complete. Why couldn’t both be offered?
Of course not everyone did change. Some did stop going, and others wound up in schizmatic movements. But, bu and large, you’re right. Everyone remained obedient and followed the Church into the “New Mass”.

I wonder how many of those pious souls on this board who relentlessly describe themselves as obedient to the Church would do the same today if the Mass were switched back. I would wager there would be a mass exodus just based on the general opinions thrown up this and other forums.

My guess is that you would be wrong. The results in this poll seem to bear out that most people would accept the change if the Church so mandated it. Of course that isn’t going to happen.

I may be wrong and I know there will be a lot of heat brought down on me because of it but at least be honest with yourselves if not with anyone else. Many of you, and you know who you are, would never accept the Traditional Mass at all in any way shape or form.
And you know it.

Well we’ll see how the voting continues, but so far, with 71 votes, less than 17% of the people say they would avoid the EF. Those who would make a point to attend and those who don’t care either way are split about even.

As usual it would appear that those who are the loudest doomsayers, on both sides of the fence, are just plain wrong. “Most people” will simply, and humbly continue to attend mass regardless of the form.

Peace
James

 

[palmas85]

I believe you are totally off on how large of a problem this would be. There might be a smattering, but I do not think most of the laity would defect. I believe the larger problem would come from a handful of priests who would resist, or mutilate the TLM out of spite. It would not take many of these to make a stink.

Tell you what. Look back at some of the posts by a few of these people. They are easy to find. The utter contempt in which they hold the Traditional Mass is quite evident and I doubt that they are far from a unique sub group of ,Modern Catholics.

They hate the Traditional Mass and traditional Catholicism and I will guarantee you they would never accept having to go along with wholescale re-introduction of the Traditional Mass.

I too don’t think that it would be a majority, but it would be a large number especially of those who frequent these boards. As I said, they know who they are.

 

[nightwalker]

Well we’ll see how the voting continues, but so far, with 71 votes, less than 17% of the people say they would avoid the EF.

I do wonder how many of the ~20% (now) who would avoid the EF are also against ‘parish-shopping’, but would now justify i for themselves?

 

[EasterJoy]

Tell you what. Look back at some of the posts by a few of these people. They are easy to find. The utter contempt in which they hold the Traditional Mass is quite evident and I doubt that they are far from a unique sub group of ,Modern Catholics.

They hate the Traditional Mass and traditional Catholicism and I will guarantee you they would never accept having to go along with wholescale re-introduction of the Traditional Mass.

I too don’t think that it would be a majority, but it would be a large number especially of those who frequent these boards. As I said, they know who they are.

The thing is, there are Catholics who gag at the NO, too, but if that’s the Mass they have to go to, that’s where they go. If they’ve never been to one that is offered reverently and finally find one, the tune changes a little, doesn’t it? Not that it is instantly their favorite, but at least they reserve the gag reflex for particular instances, and not the NO as a whole.

In the case of the EF, you won’t find many with a preference for the EF who haven’t been to the OF. There are many more among Catholics who don’t want the EF who have never been to one. If they went to one or two out of necessity, some people are still not going to like it, because they don’t like “just standing there.” Some people, though, are going to say, “You know, that was different than I thought it would be. I did know what was going on. I did participate. Who’d a thunk it?”

Having said that…there are some, for instance, for whom differentiating laywomen and girls from laymen and boys as servers is a deal-breaker. I don’t just mean the “ordain women” crowd. I mean those who can’t see barring someone from what they can do because it is too close to they *can’t *do. You’re right; they aren’t going to come around on this one.

There are also a certain number of Catholics on a given Sunday who need to meet their Sunday obligation, and to be blunt, finding a Mass with a running time that is so much shorter wouldn’t bother them, even if they don’t understand a syllable of it. There are some that, given the choice between “short and I didn’t understand it, but hey, it was Mass, I got that much” and “long and they expect me to sing” would be a no-brainer. That’s out there, too.

To be honest, you’ll find a fair number of people who fit into more than one of those groups, depending on the Sunday.

What I want to know is this: once you’ve given the EF widespread popularity, what are you going to do about the unauthorized innovations that come about as a result? What are you going to do when those innovations gain acceptance by mere repetition? If you tell parishes, “you have to offer this Mass”, then there will be innovations in the EF, I guarantee it. There are too many people out there who have never found a lily that doesn’t need gilding. What about that?

There is such a thing as being careful about what you ask for.

 

[JRKH]

Tell you what. Look back at some of the posts by a few of these people. They are easy to find. The utter contempt in which they hold the Traditional Mass is quite evident and I doubt that they are far from a unique sub group of ,Modern Catholics.

They hate the Traditional Mass and traditional Catholicism and I will guarantee you they would never accept having to go along with wholescale re-introduction of the Traditional Mass.

I too don’t think that it would be a majority, but it would be a large number especially of those who frequent these boards. As I said, they know who they are.

I suggest that, rather than getting into yet another who bashes who worse type discussion, we let the numbers in the poll speak for themselves.
As I sais earlier, at the Present time, with 71 people voting, only 2 people said they would bolt the Church, and around 17% say they would actively avoid the EF

The solid majority seems accepting of whichever form is offered.

Peace
James

 

[pnewton]

Tell you what. Look back at some of the posts by a few of these people. They are easy to find. The utter contempt in which they hold the Traditional Mass is quite evident and I doubt that they are far from a unique sub group of ,Modern Catholics.

I have not noticed any difference in tone between either group. Both sides have been less than charitable from time to time. I think what you see as hatred toward anything traditional I see as just human weakness and propensity to sin.

 

[Cristiano]

I think that this is a bogus and biased poll. I looks to me that the OP is using the poll just to make a point and not to gather a true point of view.

The OP mixes facts and opinions. The fact that a person might decided to worship according to the same schedule does not mean that he/she agrees with the opinions presented in the questionnaire.

A truly unbiased poll can ask about facts (e.g. will you go to the same time?) and opinions (why would you go to the same time?) but in a separate manner. Forcing an opinion by association to a fact in the same question is not polling but making a statement.

I go to the O.F. at a regular time, if I miss it for any reason I go to the cathedral for the E.F. Do I like the E.F. at the cathedral better? No! Why? Because the priest is getting old and I cannot hear a word of what he says either in Latin or English. Would I like the E.F better if I could hear the Latin and the sermon in English? Probably yes! Do I consider it liturgically superior? Not really!

Would I switch time if they implemented the E.F. in my parish? Probably yes if I could not hear a word during Mass. Probably not if I could hear the mass like I can year my priest during the O.F.

A previous post made it simple and clear. Mass is Mass is Mass.

 

[JRKH]

I think that this is a bogus and biased poll. I looks to me that the OP is using the poll just to make a point and not to gather a true point of view.

The OP mixes facts and opinions. The fact that a person might decided to worship according to the same schedule does not mean that he/she agrees with the opinions presented in the questionnaire.

A truly unbiased poll can ask about facts (e.g. will you go to the same time?) and opinions (why would you go to the same time?) but in a separate manner. Forcing an opinion by association to a fact in the same question is not polling but making a statement.

I go to the O.F. at a regular time, if I miss it for any reason I go to the cathedral for the E.F. Do I like the E.F. at the cathedral better? No! Why? Because the priest is getting old and I cannot hear a word of what he says either in Latin or English. Would I like the E.F better if I could hear the Latin and the sermon in English? Probably yes! Do I consider it liturgically superior? Not really!

Would I switch time if they implemented the E.F. in my parish? Probably yes if I could not hear a word during Mass. Probably not if I could hear the mass like I can year my priest during the O.F.

A previous post made it simple and clear. Mass is Mass is Mass.

I’m sorry that you feel the poll is somehow biased. I don’t necessarily agree but I understand your point. I suppose I could have dropped the “because” clauses in the statements and that would have helped. I’m afraid I put it together a bit too hastily.

If you read the OP, then you know that this evolved from another thread where a concern was raised that people might actually stop going to mass all together rather than attend an EF.

I had been hearing similar things on other threads. Statements such as:

“We have 10(or more) masses already there is no room for an EF.” (the assumption being that one of the regular masses can’t be changed. That somehow the EF “crowd” is totally seperate and unique)
“There is absolutely zero interest in the EF in my parish.” (As if any of us can know what the desires are for every individual in a decently sized parish)

These and other similar comments, I have always felt, come from a poorly thought out viewpoint. So I decided to put the question to a test. This thread is the result.
There is no doubt that there are many reasons why a person would choose to attend or not attend a particular mass. So I apolgize for not removing the “reason” clause in the statements I used for the questions. My Bad!!

Peace
James

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I’m curious about something and honestly don’t know the answer.

My parish has a 9am Mass where we do the dismissal of the catechumens in RCIA. At the 10:30am Mass there is a dismissal of the children for the children’s Liturgy of the Word.

Neither of these things were a part of the Mass back in the 1960s and earlier. Could they be made part of the Mass if the EF were being celebrated at one of these times? Or are they totally incompatible?