What Is a Catholic Feminist? (A thoughtful blog post I wanted to share)

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I read this post and it really got me thinking. I’ve claimed to be a feminist on this forum and have been told that if I’m a feminist, I must be pro-choice, and I can’t be a Catholic and a feminist. So, what is a Catholic feminist? Please read the whole post, it is really interesting and there’s a message for Catholic men at the end.

A section of the blog post said:
"…Still, even as I dutifully ironed and dusted, the landlord’s attitude rankled. I grumbled, “What if the whole world was like him? What if I had to argue with the auto parts clerk to buy a headlight bulb, even though I was the one replacing it? What if the bank required me to get my husband’s permission for this and that? And what if I wore skirts because I’d be shunned if I didn’t, and not because I felt like wearing them?”

My husband says I’m a feminist. I know many liberal feminists would recoil in horror at that assessment: After all, I have all these kids, and I’m a member in good standing with that horrible old misogynistic Church, with its oppressive rules about reproduction and obedience. I’m pro-life and wholeheartedly follow the Magisterium’s teaching on the male priesthood and contraception, and try to make the Blessed Virgin my model.

So what makes me a feminist? Some would say that all faithful Catholics are feminists, because the Church is the most pro-woman organization around: The Church honors and values the particular gifts of women, and demands that men treat women with dignity and even a little bit of fear. John Paul II famously called himself a “feminist pope”; and in practical terms, the Church has probably done more for the physical well-being of women around the world than any other charitable organization.

Catholics who are feminists recognize that, while so many true wrongs have been righted in the last 50 years, the poor treatment of women in America has just been displaced, not eradicated. So now, instead of corsets and disenfranchisement, we have widespread pornography, abortion, and abandonment of every kind. We have gained some necessary ground, but lost so much else that is valuable in the process. Most of my Catholic friends see the world this way.

But are all faithful Catholics feminists?.."

Read more: ncregister.com/blog/what-is-a-catholic-feminist/#ixzz1NaeZdruk
 
I read this post and it really got me thinking. I’ve claimed to be a feminist on this forum and have been told that if I’m a feminist, I must be pro-choice, and I can’t be a Catholic and a feminist. So, what is a Catholic feminist? Please read the whole post, it is really interesting and there’s a message for Catholic men at the end.

Read more: ncregister.com/blog/what-is-a-catholic-feminist/#ixzz1NaeZdruk
Hi Lemon and Lime,

We’d clearly have to define the term “Feminist”. You are defining it as “respect for women”, along with a certain amount of acceptance of the modern reality that women are able to do many things for themselves nowadays that might have required a man in the past. If “feminism” means that, it’s common sense.

That’s not how most self-proclaimed feminists define it. I think the specifics change a great deal depending on the individual, but I’d broadly say that modern feminism has to do with the attempt to achieve interchanability with men. It has to do with the creation of a “genderless” person. Otherwise, it has to do with an obsession with the opression of women. It really derives from Marxism as applied to gender issues. That’s how I’d define modern feminism, (though not necessarily the Susan B. Anthony type of the last century). In that sense, I’d reject it as utterly destructive of the family and simple human happiness of men, women and children.
[changes blogger wants]From my fellow Catholics: Stop thinking of women as objects who are here to save you from personal sexual sin; and stop thinking of women as intellectually inferior to men. Stop assuming that all women are meant to bear child after child no matter what; and stop pretending that if women just tried a little harder, men would be happy all the time. Stop blaming women for everything that is wrong with the Church. It’s cowardly and childish.
It seems to me that the blogger may mean well, but this quote doesn’t apply to anyone I know. It can’t apply to any Catholic man who appreciates a religious sister. It seems like a strawman set up to make the blogger seem like they are opposing an “extreme” that doesn’t really exist. Even where there are irritating attitudes towards women, they are always more complicated than this sort of simplistic stereotype. So why present it in a blog? It can’t bring anything useful to the conversation.

We need to stop speaking of feminism and speak more about the importance, dignity and value of women in all the roles they might play.

Very interesting question! I may post more later to share more of my thoughts, since I think about the role of women in the modern world a great deal.

God Bless,
Joan
 
We need to stop speaking of feminism and speak more about the importance, dignity and value of women in all the roles they might play.
All that talk about “free sex”, freedom from male domination, divorce, raising fatherless children, multiple abortions, and spending 50 hours at work hasn’t really worked out the way feminist planned.
 
Its a good article. Thank you, LemonAndLime, for posting it.

Feminism is such an amorphous idea. I don’t think it can be discussed in general, but only in specifics. When we talk about feminism we need to spell out exactly what we are referring to. At the same time, we need to recognize that those elements under discussion do not equal feminism, but only certain aspects of it.

Feminists disagree with one another. Not only do they disagree about issues central to feminism, but also as to what exactly feminism is. Can a guy be a feminist? Some say yes, others say no. What differences are inherent between men and women? The differences of feminist opinion on this matter are sharp. Should there be restrictions on the availability of abortion? Again, disagreement among feminists.

To have a discussion of feminism, we need to move away from the strawman arguments and talk about specific issues advocated by specific feminists. And we need to keep in mind that those positions do not define all feminists or define all of feminism.
 
I have actually seen this attitude many times on this board where women talk about modesty and not serving as “near occasions of sin.”

I hear this from women and men.
Hi TrueLight,

I would distinguish between a lady wanting not to scandalize a man by means of immodest dress and seeing herself in any way as an “object”. It is true that women are in a unique position to scandalize in this manner, and that they should be careful not to do so. Actually, it is the immodesty itself that objectifies and demeans women.

I hope I understood your point correctly.

God Bless,
Joan
 
To all who thanked me for posting - you’re welcome! I’ve added this post to my favourites list and I think I will be reading it again and again, it explains exactly how I feel about Catholicism vs feminism.

It is a very interesting question. As I said in my OP, I’ve been accused of being pro-abortion, hating SAHMs, not knowing my place, being pro-gay… just because I’ve said I’m a feminist! Does believing in women’s rights mean I also believe in abortion, or gay rights? Huh? I thought they were different topics altogether! 🤷
 
Good Morning to everyone,

Looking at the title of the thread, it seems to be trying to take the word “feminist” and re-define it so that a believing Catholic can take on the term. I think the good people at “Feminists for Life” do the same thing. I am of the opinion that it shouldn’t be tried at this point in history, because the majority of the women who have used the term over the past couple of generations have been extreme leftist radicals (and almost always profoundly pro-abortion). Attempts to co-opt the word may simply confuse.

Instead of the feminist movement, let’s start with our Faith, and with the realities that we experience in life. We don’t need to be the same as men. We don’t need (as a group) to make as much money in paid employment as men-as-a-group. We should not look at history with an eye to seeing the “opression” of women when what we are really seeing is a different set of circumstances based on a more primitive mode of life (not that women weren’t opressed, but just that the basic social structures we see in the past were not necessarily opression in themselves).

I think what we do need to do is to think carefully about the value of what women uniquely contribute, especically motherhood. Some conversation about how modern technology has changed motherhood, male-female relations, and family life- followed by more conversation about what is legitimate what is wrong with these changes- would be more productive.

Looking forward to hearing from people.

God Bless,
Joan
 
I refuse to call myself a feminist. People tend to take this strangely, as if I’m insulting my womanhood by saying this. Some take this to mean that I think women should never be allowed to work, should stay in the home, should do everything their husbands tell them to do, basically be a doormat to their husband. Which is not the case. The reason I refuse to call myself a feminist is because I believe what is now called ‘feminism’ is an insult to what women once worked and fought for.

We’ve got to a stage in society where if a woman wants to stay at home and not work then other women treat her like an outcast and insulting them by choosing not to work. But women did not fight so that they had to work, they fought so that they could work, they fought for that choice. And it’s gotten to a stage where women believe they have a ‘right’ to high-powered jobs to make up for the past. No, they don’t! It bothers me when companies throw in ‘quotas’ of female employees they have to meet because it undermines both sexes: women are being given jobs they don’t deserve purely because of their sex and men who do deserve them are being passed over.

Am I anti-women’s rights? No. Am I a feminist? No way.
 
I refuse to call myself a feminist. People tend to take this strangely, as if I’m insulting my womanhood by saying this. Some take this to mean that I think women should never be allowed to work, should stay in the home, should do everything their husbands tell them to do, basically be a doormat to their husband. Which is not the case. The reason I refuse to call myself a feminist is because I believe what is now called ‘feminism’ is an insult to what women once worked and fought for.

We’ve got to a stage in society where if a woman wants to stay at home and not work then other women treat her like an outcast and insulting them by choosing not to work. But women did not fight so that they had to work, they fought so that they could work, they fought for that choice. And it’s gotten to a stage where women believe they have a ‘right’ to high-powered jobs to make up for the past. No, they don’t! It bothers me when companies throw in ‘quotas’ of female employees they have to meet because it undermines both sexes: women are being given jobs they don’t deserve purely because of their sex and men who do deserve them are being passed over.

Am I anti-women’s rights? No. Am I a feminist? No way.
But then I would say you are a feminist, as you are pro-woman’s rights. You would be considered a radical feminist to most of the Arab world for believing what you do.

I think it’s time we re-claim the word feminist to mean someone who fights for women’s right to make decisions about her life and to decide her own future, not for abortion or homosexual rights.
 
(to Perfect Timing)But then I would say you are a feminist, as you are pro-woman’s rights. You would be considered a radical feminist to most of the Arab world for believing what you do…
I’m not big on citing the attitudes of extremists on either side as we talk about the issue of women and the modern world. That means both NOW-style feminists and Muslim radicals who want women in subordination. Both sorts of people are seriously wrong, so it’s best to just set them aside and start by thinking about the ideas and attitudes of people who are right- both people from the modern world (JPII) and thinkers from the past as well.

God Bless,
Joan
 
I think you hit the nail on the head. You are pro-woman, but you cannot redefine feminist to mean something that it’s not. There are “feminist” studies - it’s a whole branch of educational study that teach about modern feminism. The word feminist already has its place and meaning. It annoys me when people say they are feminist - but with stipulations, they are a CERTAIN KIND of feminist. It’s just not possible to disassociate the word from its literal and social meaning. Sorry.

I am that “other kind” of feminist that you guys are trying to distinguish yourselves from, and the world is always going to think of that “other kind” of feminist when you say that you are one.
 
I’ve claimed to be a feminist on this forum and have been told that if I’m a feminist, I must be pro-choice, and I can’t be a Catholic and a feminist.
You’ve actually been told that?

I think people have forgotten the basic foundation of feminism; equality and choice. Equality is to be able to vote, drive, carry the same occupations as men and receive the same salary. Freedom of choice is the right to choose what occupation you want to pursue, and even the right to choose to not work and be a housewife.

I will say this though; anti-feminists have done a good job making it a bad word. I’m extremely pro-woman and have written papers about current inequalities that we must fight against, but I’ve never thought of myself as a male feminist
 
You’ve actually been told that?

I think people have forgotten the basic foundation of feminism; equality and choice. Equality is to be able to vote, drive, carry the same occupations as men and receive the same salary. Freedom of choice is the right to choose what occupation you want to pursue, and even the right to choose to not work and be a housewife.

I will say this though; anti-feminists have done a good job making it a bad word. I’m extremely pro-woman and have written papers about current inequalities that we must fight against, but I’ve never thought of myself as a male feminist
Yes I have on numerous occasions. To the point where it felt like bullying. Some posters have also suggested I must be a lesbian or pro-lesbian if I identify myself a feminist.

I agree, I identify myself as a feminist because of what the roots of feminism was all about - equality and choice. I don’t think abortion or gay rights has any place in those, but I’m a minority on the feminist scene.

Unfortunately, feminist is a bad word on this forum among some of the more traditional members.
 
All that talk about “free sex”, freedom from male domination, divorce, raising fatherless children, multiple abortions, and spending 50 hours at work hasn’t really worked out the way feminist planned.
I don’t know one feminist, including myself, who would disgree with you.
 
Yes I have on numerous occasions. To the point where it felt like bullying. Some posters have also suggested I must be a lesbian or pro-lesbian if I identify myself a feminist.

I agree, I identify myself as a feminist because of what the roots of feminism was all about - equality and choice. I don’t think abortion or gay rights has any place in those, but I’m a minority on the feminist scene.

Unfortunately, feminist is a bad word on this forum among some of the more traditional members.
The biggest mistake feminists made was when we allowed the term feminism to be co-opted about 30-35 years ago. Feminism is and has always been all about being pro-woman, and folks on the front lines back in the early 80s should have screamed bloody murder when people from the other side started slinging it around to mean anti-man. Huge, huge error on the parts of feminist leaders and thinkers from that time.
 
…I identify myself as a feminist because of what the roots of feminism was all about - equality and choice. I don’t think abortion or gay rights has any place in those…
Hi LemonAndLime,

I’d be interested in knowing in what particular ways men and women should be equal in your view? Are there any situations where it is proper for men and women to be in their own sphere?

I’d also be interested in knowing what sorts of choices you are interested in promoting via feminism.

I think each issue needs to be tackled on its own as we talk about something as complicated as the role(s) of women vis a vis the role(s) of men.

God Bless,
Joan
 
We don’t need (as a group) to make as much money in paid employment as men-as-a-group.

Joan
We don’t? Why not?

I’m paying back the same student loans that my male counterpart is paying.
 
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