What Is a Catholic Feminist? (A thoughtful blog post I wanted to share)

[LemonAndLime]

Hi LemonAndLime,

I’d be interested in knowing in what particular ways men and women should be equal in your view? Are there any situations where it is proper for men and women to be in their own sphere?

I’d also be interested in knowing what sorts of choices you are interested in promoting via feminism.

I think each issue needs to be tackled on its own as we talk about something as complicated as the role(s) of women vis a vis the role(s) of men.

God Bless,
Joan

I believe men and women should be able to get jobs on an equal basis, and also for equal pay. I believe both genders should be able to choose their own vocations. I believe that women should be able to choose to stay at home, or a man should be able to. I think that men and women should have equal access to healthcare, education and benefits.

As to own sphere’s - I believe that the Priesthood should remain male. I think that it is appropriate for women to veil at Mass, but it shouldn’t be imposed. I think that motherhood should be seen as a more clear vocation for women and be more acceptable to our culture. Myself, I’m in a very female profession - nursing. There are men who nurse but it is predominantely female. If someone started campaigning saying that men should be 50% of all nurses and there had to be quotas, I would opposte that. While I do accept men as nurses (some of them are fantastic!) I believe that carework is a “natural” vocation for women, so no one should try to impose otherwise. This forms some of my support in the Priesthood remaining male, if that makes sense. As for submitting to a man - well, if I got married to my boyfriend of 2 years, I know that I’ll be the dominating one in the relationship even if I tried not to - not because he’s a pushover, but because I’m more capable of being a leader than he is, due to my personality. So I do not believe in women submitting to their husbands, I believe in a partnership.

I think it is important to stress that men and women should be equal in law, yet in culture it should be understood that we are different.

 

[Gift_from_God]

All that talk about “free sex”, freedom from male domination, divorce, raising fatherless children, multiple abortions, and spending 50 hours at work hasn’t really worked out the way feminist planned.

Barb, I don’t think you understand how feminism works.

-No feminist gets divorced for the sake of divorce. If they did, why would they marry in the first place?

-No feminist wants their children to grow up with no father figure. While they probably believe that you can raise a fatherless child well, no feminist wants to prevent men from being fathers

-No feminist wants to have multiple abortions

-I can’t say I know many people that work 50 hours a week. Feminists do want to work and make equal wages as their male counterparts

 

[LemonAndLime]

Barb, I don’t think you understand how feminism works.

-No feminist gets divorced for the sake of divorce. If they did, why would they marry in the first place?

-No feminist wants their children to grow up with no father figure. While they probably believe that you can raise a fatherless child well, no feminist wants to prevent men from being fathers

-No feminist wants to have multiple abortions

-I can’t say I know many people that work 50 hours a week. Feminists do want to work and make equal wages as their male counterparts

This is the problem. On this forum, if you use the word “feminist”, a few members conjure up an image of a burly lesbian campaigning for gay rights, men to lose rights, and women to be superior to men who are no longer needed.

 

[Joan1969]

We don’t? Why not?

I’m paying back the same student loans that my male counterpart is paying.

Hi TrueLight,

You should get paid based on your education and experience, same as a man in your identical situation. But feminists will frequently complain that women “make x on the dollar” compared to men. Problem being that women generally take a number of years for the sake of raising children, or make career choices that make them more available for motherhood and family life. So in that sense, it is quite acceptable that women-as-a- group should make less than men-as-a-group. The statistic is based on their (and their family’s) free choices, and those choices are very good and justifiable.

God Bless,
Joan

 

[mark_a]

As long as Catholic feminists are more Catholic than feminist, I don’t see what’s all the hulabaloo.

 

[karow]

We don’t need (as a group) to make as much money in paid employment as men-as-a-group.\QUOTE]

Speak for yourself. If you’re cool with earning 70% of what other people in your chosen profession - people who are as qualified and sometimes less qualified than you, people who do the exact same job as you - because their gentalia is different from yours, party on. As I feminist I would back your play because feminists are like that. In the meantime, I am eternally thankful that I can and do make exactly the same as my male counterparts, something my mother, grandmother, and great-grandmother - career women all - did not. And, my husband and I are raising our daughter to expect nothing less.

Disparate pay. What a throw back idea. Thanks for reminding me of the bad ole’ days. I know, let’s start firing pregnant women, too. Go totally retro.

 

[karow]

Hi TrueLight,

You should get paid based on your education and experience, same as a man in your identical situation. But feminists will frequently complain that women “make x on the dollar” compared to men. Problem being that women generally take a number of years for the sake of raising children, or make career choices that make them more available for motherhood and family life. So in that sense, it is quite acceptable that women-as-a- group should make less than men-as-a-group. The statistic is based on their (and their family’s) free choices, and those choices are very good and justifiable.

God Bless,
Joan

Prove it.

 

[Joan1969]

I believe men and women should be able to get jobs on an equal basis, and also for equal pay… I think that men and women should have equal access to healthcare, education and benefits.

As to own sphere’s - I believe that the Priesthood should remain male. I think that it is appropriate for women to veil at Mass, but it shouldn’t be imposed… As for submitting to a man … I do not believe in women submitting to their husbands, I believe in a partnership.

I think it is important to stress that men and women should be equal in law, yet in culture it should be understood that we are different.

Based on all of this, you are not a feminist according to the way the vast majority of self-proclaimed feminists use the term. What you are a normal woman who wants fair treatment without respect to gender.

I think the feminist movement needs to be confronted, not just on the abortion issue but on their misguided desire to see an artificial and unworkable “equality” enforced both by law and by anti-family decisions by individuals. That is why I don’t think it’s a good idea for some women to try to adopt the term to mean normal, justified desires for respect.

What other term would you use to describe the quasi-Marxist movement that has made so many radical and destructive demands? How can we oppose them if we have no word for them?

God Bless,
Joan

 

[Joan1969]

Prove it.

I believe the burden of proof is on you. There is no reason to doubt that millions of women make personal decisions that are precisely based on their position as women- wives and mothers of families. Those things take time too, and many women (take me as an example) choose to work less, or not at all, to accomodate those things. Totally justifiable. It is also okay for companies to pay people according to what they work, not only with respect to hours but years and experience as well. None of this troubles me.

God Bless,
Joan

 

[Gift_from_God]

Problem being that women generally take a number of years for the sake of raising children, or make career choices that make them more available for motherhood and family life. So in that sense, it is quite acceptable that women-as-a- group should make less than men-as-a-group. The statistic is based on their (and their family’s) free choices, and those choices are very good and justifiable.

That’s not an excuse for women to make less. Men can take time off to raise children as well

My parents are both working people. My dad’s schedule was more flexible, so he was more accessible when needed

There was also my grandmother, but I think I’ve said enough

 

[Jesus_123]

**The Feminist Threat **to the Roman Catholic Church in the UK

“I am, in fact,
convinced,
that what feminism promotes in its radical form is
no longer
the Christianity that we know; it is
another religion.”

**

- Pope Benedict XVI **speaking (as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger) on radical feminism.
Excerpt from ‘The Ratzinger Report’ (Ignatius Press)​

…The adverse effect that radical feminism is having on the Church in the UK - and indeed across the world - is a matter of deep concern to many Catholics. There is also grave concern regarding the failure of the bishops even to acknowledge there is a problem, let alone address it. The intention of this website on catholic radical feminism is not to offer an exhaustive study of the radical feminist phenomenon and its effects on Catholicism, but rather to give information on where useful resources can be obtained, and where possible, to reproduce such resources on the website itself. Hopefully, this will help Catholics to achieve a broader understanding of the **serious and widespread **nature of this problem, and how it specifically affects the Church in the UK today. No Catholic can afford to ignore the problem of radical feminism, as there is not an area in Church life that remains unaffected by it. Some dioceses have suffered more than others, but those in relatively unscathed dioceses have no cause to be complacent, as the problem is growing. Rather than list all known resources on radical feminism (of which there are hundreds) and risk over-loading people with information, the material most pertinent to the situation in the UK has been listed on this site, starting with the essential reading section. Two books that helped open many people’s eyes to the problems are **‘The Enemy Within’ **and ‘The Alliance of Dissent’.

Remember -
“Evil triumphs when good men do nothing”.

The Alliance of Dissent - turning the Church upside down (Father Michael Clifton). First published in 1993. ISBN 0-903348-45-4, Paperback, 130 pages. Price £6.50. Catholics owe Southwark priest Fr Clifton a huge debt of gratitude for this book, which details and exposes all the key ‘Catholic’ dissenters - both individuals and organisations. Fr Clifton writes: “This book can be regarded as a follow up to the recently published ‘The Enemy Within’. That work deals with the menace of Feminism in the Catholic Church. This volume will examine in more detail the strange network of organisations referred to in ‘The Enemy Within’.” "The Alliance of Dissent" skilfully brings together information on all the various strands of dissent from Catholic teaching, and highlights the **devastating effect **such dissent is having on the Church. There is a great deal of invaluable information on the role of radical feminism. If you are wondering how this and other forms of dissent have become so embedded in the Roman Catholic Church, this book will tell you. It is available from the Holy Cross Catholic Bookshop, 4 Brownhill Road, Catford, London SE6 2EJ. Tel: 0208 461 0896. If they are out of stock, try Twiggers Book-finding Service at www.twiggers.com The sections of the book dealing with radical feminism are reproduced here by kind permission of Fr Michael Clifton. Click here to see the relevant chapters:- Alliance of Dissent

The Feminist Threat to the Church. A series of articles by Patricia Phillips, published in the Christian Order journal. They are reproduced here by kind permission of the author and Christian Order. Phillips’ articles more or less pick up where Fr Clifton’s ‘**The Alliance of Dissent’ **left off, but they concentrate on radical feminism in particular, and not dissent in general.
*]Feminism v Mankind (Christine Kelly). Published in 1990 by Family Publications. ISBN 1-871217-07-5, Paperback, 74 pages. Available from www.familypublications.co.uk . (Price £2.00)

The Inner Goddess (Josephine Robinson). Published in 1998 by Gracewing. ISBN 0852443951
Paperback, 176 pages. Available from www.amazon.co.uk . Check Amazon for price.

Ungodly Rage - The Hidden Face of Catholic Feminism (Donna Steichen). Published in 1991 by Ignatius Press. ISBN 0-89870-348-4 Paperback, 420 pages. Available from www.familypublications.co.uk (Price £11.50)

This website is dedicated to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

* Hearts of Jesus and Mary, bless and protect us and this work. *

:compcoff: Link: catholic-feminism.co.uk/[/INDENT]

. . . all for **Jesus **+
*. . . May our Gracious Loving Holy Triune God always be glorified!+
. . . Sweet Holy Jesus please guide and direct God’s children into Thy Truth+
. . . *St. Michael, Holy Archangel of God, please protect the truth+ **
. . . and destroy the feminist heresy+
​

 

[Dale_M]

“I am, in fact, convinced, that what feminism promotes in its radical form is no longer the Christianity that we know; it is another religion.”

Well, yes. However, the quote from Cardinal Ratzinger does not say what he considers to be radical feminism, as opposed to ordinary feminism.

The rest of your post seems to be the opinion of the anonymous authors of the website you cited, and are not the words of Cardinal Ratzinger.

 

[Jesus_123]

+The wonderful and quite famous . . . Mother Assumpta Long, O.P., Co-foundress and Prioress General of the thriving Dominican Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist . . . who was also one of the principal speakers at the 2010 Annual EWTN Gathering in Canton, Ohio honoring Mother Angelica of EWTN . . . quite marvelously and simply defined “feminism” as we see it today . . . as being centered on fallen sinful "self" . . . as opposed to the Apostolic Holy Roman Catholic Church’s being “Christ” centered . . . the **first love **of the Christian heart of God’s children (male or female) . . . in the Catholic Church must be our . . . Holy Wonderful Crucified Risen and Ascended Lord and Saviour . . . .

**. . . :coffeeread: . . . **
The Holy :bible1: Bible
**Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Galatians **
**Chapter 1 **

He blames the Galatians
for suffering themselves to be imposed upon
by new teachers.

[1] Paul, an apostle, not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead, [2] And all the brethren who are with me, to the churches of Galatia. [3] Grace be to you, and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, [4] **Who **gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present wicked world, according to the will of God and our Father: [5] To whom is glory for ever and ever. Amen.

[6] I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another gospel. [7] Which is not another, only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. [8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. [9] As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema. [10] For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.​

anath·e·ma noun \ə-ˈna-thə-mə
Definition of ANATHEMA
**1a : **one that is cursed by ecclesiastical authority

b : someone or something intensely disliked or loathed —usually used as a predicate nominative <this notion was anathema to most of his countrymen — S. J. Gould>

2a : a ban or curse solemnly pronounced by ecclesiastical authority and accompanied by excommunication

b : the denunciation of something as accursed

c : a vigorous denunciation : curse

- Merriam Webster Online Dictionary​

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . Sweet Spirit of our God+
. . . Holy Heavenly Counselor +
. . . guide and direct into the Truth of our Holy God+​

 

[stevicus]

But feminists will frequently complain that women “make x on the dollar” compared to men.

The trouble that I’ve found with stats like that is that they’re never really qualified. Is it wages based on all women compared to all men? Most CEOs and others at that level are men, so their extremely high salaries would skew the percentage a bit, but that may not be truly reflective of how it is for the Average Joe and Average Jane out in the workforce. It may also be a matter of experience. A male doctor with 30 years experience is likely to earn a higher salary than a female doctor who’s just out of medical school.

Are these things taken into consideration when they say women make x on the dollar compared to men? Or is it just some propagandistic soundbite that gets thrown around casually? I’d like to see the raw data that goes into these statistics that get tossed around.

All I really can say is that, at every company I’ve worked for since the 1980s, there has never been separate wage scales for men and women. It’s based solely on the job title and the time in position.

 

[Dale_M]

The wonderful and quite famous . . . Mother Assumpta Long, O.P., Co-foundress and Prioress General of the thriving Dominican Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist . . . who was also one of the principal speakers at the 2010 Annual EWTN Gathering in Canton, Ohio honoring Mother Angelica of EWTN . . . quite marvelously and simply defined “feminism” as we see it today . . . as being centered on fallen sinful self

That is very interesting. I wonder if you would be willing to provide a link to Mother Assumpta Long’s statement so we could read it in context?

 

[PerfectTiming]

But then I would say you are a feminist, as you are pro-woman’s rights. You would be considered a radical feminist to most of the Arab world for believing what you do.

I think it’s time we re-claim the word feminist to mean someone who fights for women’s right to make decisions about her life and to decide her own future, not for abortion or homosexual rights.

I wouldn’t say you’re wrong, but because of all the associations that come with feminism nowadays - like you say people think you must be pro-abortion - I have a dislike of using the term. Like when I am married and have children, if my financial situation allows I want to stay at home and care for them. But some women look at me like I’m crazy when I say that.

I did used to live in Saudi Arabia and the way women are treated there is awful.

 

[LemonAndLime]

I wouldn’t say you’re wrong, but because of all the associations that come with feminism nowadays - like you say people think you must be pro-abortion - I have a dislike of using the term. Like when I am married and have children, if my financial situation allows I want to stay at home and care for them. But some women look at me like I’m crazy when I say that.

I did used to live in Saudi Arabia and the way women are treated there is awful.

But you’re still a feminist. Forget that some people who identify themselves as that engage in practices that you don’t agree with. If you’re pro-woman’s rights and equality, then you are a feminist.

It’s like saying “I refuse to identify myself as a Catholic because some people are catheteria Catholics.”

 

[LemonAndLime]

The trouble that I’ve found with stats like that is that they’re never really qualified. Is it wages based on all women compared to all men? Most CEOs and others at that level are men, so their extremely high salaries would skew the percentage a bit, but that may not be truly reflective of how it is for the Average Joe and Average Jane out in the workforce. It may also be a matter of experience. A male doctor with 30 years experience is likely to earn a higher salary than a female doctor who’s just out of medical school.

Are these things taken into consideration when they say women make x on the dollar compared to men? Or is it just some propagandistic soundbite that gets thrown around casually? I’d like to see the raw data that goes into these statistics that get tossed around.

All I really can say is that, at every company I’ve worked for since the 1980s, there has never been separate wage scales for men and women. It’s based solely on the job title and the time in position.

Of course they’re taken into consideration. They compare women and men working the SAME jobs on the SAME level and they also include bonuses.

The last such study I looked at which did the above found that for every 30 days a man and woman worked, the woman was only paid for 29 of them.

 

[LemonAndLime]

Based on all of this, you are not a feminist according to the way the vast majority of self-proclaimed feminists use the term. What you are a normal woman who wants fair treatment without respect to gender.

I think the feminist movement needs to be confronted, not just on the abortion issue but on their misguided desire to see an artificial and unworkable “equality” enforced both by law and by anti-family decisions by individuals. That is why I don’t think it’s a good idea for some women to try to adopt the term to mean normal, justified desires for respect.

What other term would you use to describe the quasi-Marxist movement that has made so many radical and destructive demands? How can we oppose them if we have no word for them?

God Bless,
Joan

How is the majority feminist movement socialist?

I’m still going to refer to myself as a feminist. You can’t reclaim a word without using it. And like I said above, it’s like saying you refuse to be identified as a human being because other humans commit murders.

 

[Joan1969]

That [raising children] is not an excuse for women to make less. Men can take time off to raise children as well

My parents are both working people. My dad’s schedule was more flexible, so he was more accessible when needed

There was also my grandmother, but I think I’ve said enough

Good Morning Gift,

I respect what your parents did, and if people do things that way I have no quarrel, espeicially if they are able to work things out so that the kids get an abudance of parental attention. The logistics of that may be unrealisitc for many, since a full-time job has a way of demanding lots of time, and part-time jobs are not enough for a family’s needs.

Many families may go a more traditional route with the woman staying home and the man taking the full-time work. Or, perhaps, the woman takes part-time work or just doesn’t seek the promotions that she might because she is making herself more available to the family. These are very common choices, more so than men staying at home, or a truly equal child-rearing situation. So it’s reflected in what women, on the whole, tend to make in paid employment. That’s not a problem.

God Bless,
Joan