S
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
What Is a Catholic Feminist? (A thoughtful blog post I wanted to share)
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
D
Dale_M
Guest
Mary Daly was a radical feminist. I know that term gets thrown around a lot by political conservatives, usually in reference to any feminist, simply because they are feminist. However, there is also a legitimate use to the term. Some feminists are radical, and Mary Daly was one of them.It appears she did not want male students in her class. A true feminist (using the ordinary dictionary definition), whether a man or a woman, while fighting for equality for women would certainly want equality for all.
S
severus68
Guest
She called herself a radical feminist. I have not read much about her but it would seem that what she said, wrote and believed in was not all bad.Mary Daly was a radical feminist. I know that term gets thrown around a lot by political conservatives, usually in reference to any feminist, simply because they are feminist. However, there is also a legitimate use to the term. Some feminists are radical, and Mary Daly was one of them.
D
Dale_M
Guest
I haven’t read any of Mary Daly’s works so I can’t say much about her. My sense is that she was pioneer who persevered despite great opposition. The fearlessness and toughness that helped her may sometimes have been a weakness, too. But I haven’t studied Daly, so its just an impression I’ve picked up from media coverage. I welcome hearing other opinions and learning more about her.She called herself a radical feminist. I have not read much about her but it would seem that what she said, wrote and believed in was not all bad.
B
Betterave
Guest
Fair enough, but that really doesn’t affect my point, does it? Daly’s ideas are still very much part and parcel of what is generally understood by ‘Catholic feminism.’ I’ll repost post 95 from this thread to confirm this point.I think at one time she was a Catholic feminist, and she trained as a Catholic theologian. But her last work dealing with the Christian God was early in her career (her second book), and sometime later she abandoned the Faith.
nytimes.com/2010/01/07/education/07daly.html
There are a number of interesting opinions mentioned in the previous posts, and if readers want to read some in-depth research on the subject, it is worth reading this book: Catholic and Feminist: The Surprising History of the American Catholic Feminist Movement; by Mary J. Henold. Ms. Henold is a self-proclaimed Catholic feminist college professor who writes about the movement since it surfaced in the 1960’s.
A review of the book can be found in the June 2011 issue of New Oxford Review, pp. 38-41. The review may be reachable at this URL: newoxfordreview.org/revie…=0611-gardiner
D
Dale_M
Guest
Honestly, I am not sure what point you are trying to make.Fair enough, but that really doesn’t affect my point, does it?
l don’t think the review you cite mentions Mary Daly.Daly’s ideas are still very much part and parcel of what is generally understood by ‘Catholic feminism.’ I’ll repost post 95 from this thread to confirm this point.
B
Betterave
Guest
Ah, I see. That explains your not-to-the-point response.Honestly, I am not sure what point you are trying to make.
I suspect you’re right. (Of course, I never claimed it did.)l don’t think the review you cite mentions Mary Daly.
S
severus68
Guest
I tend to agree. I plan to read more about her. The fact she called herself a radical lesbain feminist would I think make many Catholics ignore the good things she had to say and of course link feminism to homosexuality etc.I haven’t read any of Mary Daly’s works so I can’t say much about her. My sense is that she was pioneer who persevered despite great opposition. The fearlessness and toughnehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/editor/color.gifss that helped her may sometimes have been a weakness, too. But I haven’t studied Daly, so its just an impression I’ve picked up from media coverage. I welcome hearing other opinions and learning more about her.
S
severus68
Guest
Okay, but what does that ‘Christian feminist’ assertion mean? The secondary meaning of being made in the image of God is: “for man is the beginning and end of woman; as God is the beginning and end of every creature.” How does the Christian feminist interpret this claim? If they want to claim this secondary meaning for their own, then they must be saying what? That woman too (not just man) is the beginning and end of woman (or of man?), as God is the beginning and end of every creature? What would that mean?
May I ask where you are quoting this secondary meaning from please? It is certainly not in the Cathechism.
F
FCEGM
Guest
That link is made with good reason as radical feminists see themselves and homosexuals as victims of that bad ol’ Catholic Church and thus give each other mutual support in their fight against it. You can see this linkage here:I tend to agree. I plan to read more about her. The fact she called herself a radical lesbain feminist would I think make many Catholics ignore the good things she had to say and of course link feminism to homosexuality etc.
catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=4116&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=759043
Peter Kreef on the subject (including mention of Mary Daly) - “CRISIS” magazine (April '93):
"Who are the advocates of women’s ordination? The most prominent and vocal are always dissenters against other official Church teachings as well. The issue of women’s ordination is not isolated; it is one thread of a seamless garment. Pull it, and you unravel the whole robe. (By the way, ‘dissenter’ is a modern euphemism for ‘heretic.’ Both words mean the same thing: one who says No, one who picks and chooses for himself, one who refuses to eat all the food Mother Church tells us to eat.)
"Most shockingly, feminists who advocate priestesses usually advocate accepting abortion. That fact seems to me immediately and totally to destroy their credentials to a hearing. For we know what god the priestesses of abortion serve, and his name is not Jesus. It is Moloch. Moloch also says, ‘Suffer the little children to come unto me,’ but where Jesus places His hand on their heads, Moloch places his teeth.
"In addition to approving abortion, some leaders of the push for priestesses also want the Church to approve contraception, fornication, sodomy, same-sex marriage, and divorce. A more complete demonic attack on the family could not be orchestrated even in Hell.
"Some of the leaders in the movement, such as ‘Womynchurch,’ clearly admit they are worshipping another God - Mother Earth - and practicing another religion - paganism, Christ’s old enemy risen from the dead. Anyone who freely opens the Church’s doors to these barbarians is clearly a traitor, and anyone who can’t see through these spies’ tissue-thin over of ‘Catholicism’ is a fool.
"The origin of modern feminism is not inside Christianity but outside it and against it, in deeply anti-religious and anti-Christian ideologies like Marxism and decontructionism. Mary Daly summarized her self-image candidly when she calls herself (in Pure Lust) the Antichrist, and summarized her life’s work as ‘castrating God the Father.’ Next to her Nietzsche was a wimp.
“There is an obvious connection between the root of the spirit of modern feminism - which is NOT prayer, personal holiness, or submission to God’s will - and its fruit, which is NOT love or joy or peace. In the most public feminist faces you can see the hate, the hardness, and the hurt. Not all advocates of priestesses have that look, but their leaders do.”
B
Betterave
Guest
Betterave;7972048:
is the beginning and end of woman; as God is the beginning and end of every creature." How does the Christian feminist interpret this claim? If they want to claim this secondary meaning for their own, then they must be saying what? That woman too (not just man) is the beginning and end of woman (or of man?), as God is the beginning and end of every creature? What would that mean?Okay, but what does that ‘Christian feminist’ assertion mean? The secondary meaning of being made in the image of God is: "for man
May I ask where you are quoting this secondary meaning from please? It is certainly not in the Cathechism.
It’s from the reference to Aquinas’ Summa theologiae that Contarini provided.
S
severus68
Guest
severus68;7994547:
that Contarini provided.It’s from the reference to Aquinas’ Summa theologiae
Thank you. Surely this is not the position taken by the Church?
S
severus68
Guest
Thanks for the link and the article.That link is made with good reason as radical feminists see themselves and homosexuals as victims of that bad ol’ Catholic Church and thus give each other mutual support in their fight against it. You can see this linkage here:
catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=4116&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=759043
Peter Kreef on the subject (including mention of Mary Daly) - “CRISIS” magazine (April '93):
Just a point, I do not think wanting women to be ordained priests by itself makes a woman a radical feminist. Personally, although I have read the reasons for not allowing women priests and those have been explained to me, I really cannot understand the reasoning. It is however of no personal relevance to me and I accept the position of the Church.
B
Betterave
Guest
Betterave;7995750:
Why not? It obviously needs to be carefully interpreted, but it’s what the New Testament teaches (Thomas was just quoting Paul, IIRC), so it seems like it must be the position of the Church, in one way or another.Thank you. Surely this is not the position taken by the Church?
S
severus68
Guest
severus68;7996336:
The first Adam and the last Adam? I am not sure how that relates to the secondary meaning of being made in the image of God. I probably have not read enough on that. However the Cathechism is clear that we are all made in the image of God, both men and women.Why not? It obviously needs to be carefully interpreted, but it’s what the New Testament teaches (Thomas was just quoting Paul, IIRC), so it seems like it must be the position of the Church, in one way or another.
Is it your view that the Church teaches something more that qualifies that?
L
LemonAndLime
Guest
severus - Just to let you know, you’ve been quoting others and saying that you’re the one who has posted it.
S
severus68
Guest
Oh dear, just read some of my posts. I am sure I clicked on “quote”. It has happened before. Thanks much, I will check each time now before I post.severus - Just to let you know, you’ve been quoting others and saying that you’re the one who has posted it.
S
severus68
Guest
My apologies to all for inadvertently quoting other posts as mine. Its either my terrible inaptitude or gremlins.
B
Betterave
Guest
Yes, Thomas was quite clear on that point too: we are all made in the image of God…The first Adam and the last Adam? I am not sure how that relates to the secondary meaning of being made in the image of God. I probably have not read enough on that. However the Cathechism is clear that we are all made in the image of God, both men and women.
…But the “secondary” point that follows is certainly well-enough grounded in Church teaching too, it seems, at least as to the basic scriptural data which St. Thomas is glossing, and I don’t see any reason to take issue with his interpretation. Do you?Is it your view that the Church teaches something more that qualifies that?
S
severus68
Guest
I know the biblical passages referred to in support. As I said I have not read much. I would appreciate any links to Vatican or other sites which explain this and explain the Church’s position. Not someone’s commentary please. I can’t take issue with an interpretation I do not understand/know.Yes, Thomas was quite clear on that point too: we are all made in the image of God…
…But the “secondary” point that follows is certainly well-enough grounded in Church teaching too, it seems, at least as to the basic scriptural data which St. Thomas is glossing, and I don’t see any reason to take issue with his interpretation. Do you?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.