What is a considered a Traditional Catholic

[thewanderer]

I am a Traditional Catholic. I don’t attend the Latin mass because there isn’t one here, and I know there are other traditional Catholics who are unable to attend the Latin Mass and so attend the Ordinary form of the Mass. There are many traditional Catholics in the parish I attend.

Though, I believe attending the Latin Mass is the biggest identifier, there are other identifiers also.

A traditional Catholic is someone that sees the traditions of the Church that have been handed down through the ages and passed on from our fathers as necessary in our relationship with God. It is a lifestyle. It is a relationship with the Lord. It is holding onto all His Church has taught through out its history, not accepting the mindset that a new church evolved after Vatican II. Rejecting modernism.

Well, at least that is what it is for me and I guess IMHO is what being Catholic is all about, following all the of the Church.

I’m just gonna point this out, but you don’t have to be a traditionalist to hold to all the church teachings and realize that vatican II was not a break from previous church teachings. I know many good faithful Catholics who accept ***all ***of the Church’s teachings while still not being able to be labelled as a traditionalist. I think Wasserfall said it best, being a traditional Catholic is about following the traditions in place before the changes that followed Vatican II.

 

[JillianRose]

Okay, I give you permission to make blond jokes.

So let me get this straight:

Traditional Catholic has nothing to do with peoples Knowledge of the Bible, Catechism and Tradition. It has to do with their mass preference? Also, not agreeing with VII? I am 33 I only know the Vatican 2. I guess I am dumb. I thought a Catholic has to be in line with the Church’s doctrine, other wise that is heresy. I don’t want to be labeled as a heretic. I just want to be around people that can help me with doctrine, scripture and tradition. I just want to be around people that know why they are Catholic and not just using it as a label. I have no one my age in my Catholic Church that knows what a Catholic believes. I was very scared the day a “Catholic” told me that she did not know why we prayed the rosary. I have not come across one yet that knows what makes them a Catholic. I was also told once "I am Catholic because thats what I was baptized’. I am just searching humbly for fellowship in my faith and not just because I was baptized Catholic.

 

[Rich_C]

So can a person like me who is only 33 and has only known the VII, be a Traditional Catholic?

Tomorrow I turn 26 and most “Traditional” Catholics I know are between my age and yours, so definitely. It’s not a club for old folks, nor a clique for the young.

I typed out a long answer and then remembered the best answer I ever read is just a link away. Check this out: fisheaters.com/ontraditionalcatholics.html

A Preview: On Traditional Catholics

A traditional Catholic is not a person who “prefers” the old Latin Mass. Neither are they people who simply passed Catechism class.

They are people who adhere to a type of spirituality that is largely lost in the 21st Century Catholic Church.

…

A traditional Catholic is someone that views the traditions of the Church not just as an optional extra to Catholicism but practicing our faith and living our lives with the wisdom passed on from our fathers in faith is a necessary and intrinsic part of Catholicism.

Of course, falling away from the infallible teachings of the Church is worse than falling away from the practices of the Church, but there is the idea that being a Catholic is not just about believing as the Church has believed but is also about worshiping God in the way the Church has passed down to us.

Tradition is a living thing that evoles, the way we practice our faith evolves but this evolution must take place with respect to what has gone before us and must build on it.

 

[thewanderer]

Okay, I give you permission to make blond jokes.

So let me get this straight:

Traditional Catholic has nothing to do with peoples Knowledge of the Bible, Catechism and Tradition. It has to do with their mass preference? Also, not agreeing with VII? I am 33 I only know the Vatican 2. I guess I am dumb. I thought a Catholic has to be in line with the Church’s doctrine, other wise that is heresy. I don’t want to be labeled as a heretic. I just want to be around people that can help me with doctrine, scripture and tradition. I just want to be around people that know why they are Catholic and not just using it as a label. I have no one my age in my Catholic Church that knows what a Catholic believes. I was very scared the day a “Catholic” told me that she did not know why we prayed the rosary. I have not come across one yet that knows what makes them a Catholic. I was also told once "I am Catholic because thats what I was baptized’. I am just searching humbly for fellowship in my faith and not just because I was baptized Catholic.

It *is *more than just a preference for a specific form of Mass, it really is a way of life so far as I can understand. I’m sure that those who consider theselves traditionalists can explain it better than I can. But I will try to clarify it as best I can. As far as I can see they try to follow all the practices and customs that were commonly followed before Vatican II, such as women veiling in Church etc. I also think they tend to hold a stricter understanding of what is entailed in a wife submitting to her husband. They prefer to receive communion on the tongue kneeling, they see receiving in the hand or standing as irreverant and prefer Latin and gregorian chant. I believe their views on Vatican II vary. Some see it as being contradictory to previous church teaching and so reject it completely while others say that it is not contradictory, but is written in too ambiguous a manner and so prefer to look to documents written before Vatican II. Its hard to pin it down exactly because opinions vary among traditionalists on a whole variety of things, so its possible that not everyone who calls themselves a traditionalist agrees with everything I have said, but they are at least very common opinions among traditionalists.

 

[jeannetherese]

" I also think they tend to hold a stricter understanding of what is entailed in a wife submitting to her husband. "

I wanted to take a moment to respond to this portion of the discussion because, at one time, this part of Paul’s teaching was a real problem for me.
At my first Extraordinary Form mass, our priest focussed on this issue and I still recall his sermon. He read the counsel of Saint Paul regarding submission and then followed with the challenge to men: Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church." He then said: I submit that husbands have the greater challenge here.
Prior to this sermon, I had always had a bit of difficulty with Saint Paul’s idea about submission, but our priests’ sermon reallly made an impression. Who would not want to submit to the sort of love that Christ expressed through his life and death and resurrection and care for his community?
The challenge to live this out, sets a very high bar for us all. My prayer is that all traditionalists keep this goal in mind and strive to imitate Our Lord and Blessed Mother as they seek to achieve the goals presented by Saint Paul."
In relation to the idea of a :stricter sense of submission": to the extent that husbands mirror Chirst, I do not see it to be a problem. However, I would argue, that if a husbands’ demands are antithetical to Church teaching, submission is no longer called for because in marriage, our vocation involves helping each other towards salvation. (I think that my priest would take my back here.
This is my interpretation, and I cannot speak for others, but I do think of myself as a traditonal Catholic. I found the our priests’ sermon to be very helpful as I worked my way through the idea of submission within Catholic teaching.
In my experience, Catholics who tend to self-identify as traditional, tend to place a strong emphasis upon the sacrifice of the mass and sometimes worry that this sacrificial aspect does not ‘come through’ very well in some of the novus ordo masses.
I find that the more I learn about the mass, its history, its symbolism, the prayers that have been handed down through the ages, the more I am able to enter into that sacrifice at a deeper level. It is so humbling.
May God bless us all!

 

[thewanderer]

" I also think they tend to hold a stricter understanding of what is entailed in a wife submitting to her husband. "
I wanted to take a moment to respond to this portion of the discussion because, at one time, this part of Paul’s teaching was a real problem for me.
At my first Extraordinary Form mass, our priest focussed on this issue and I still recall his sermon. He read the counsel of Saint Paul regarding submission and then followed with the challenge to men: Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church." He then said: I submit that husbands have the greater challenge here.

Prior to this sermon, I had always had a bit of difficulty with Saint Paul’s idea about submission, but our priests’ sermon reallly made an impression. Who would not want to submit to the sort of love that Christ expressed through his life and death and resurrection and care for his community?
The challenge to live this out, sets a very high bar for us all. My prayer is that all traditionalists keep this goal in mind and strive to imitate Our Lord and Blessed Mother as they seek to achieve the goals presented by Saint Paul."
So, in relation to the idea of a :stricter sense of submission": to the extent that husbands mirror Chirst, it should not be a problem. I would argue that if a husbands demands are antithetical to Church teaching, submission is no longer called for because in marriage, our vocation involves helping each other towards salvation.
This is my interpretation, and I cannot speak for others, but I do think of myself as a traditonal Catholic. (which is not antithetical in my experience to being a third wave feminist). I found the our priests’ sermon to be very helpful as I worked my way through the idea of submission within Catholic teaching.
(Snip)

I didn’t mean that as necessarily a bad thing. It just is one difference that tends to exist between traditionalists and other Catholics so far as I can see. And that doesn’t mean that there aren’t non-traditionalists that view the idea of submission being a virtue of a wife. But even among those who see value in keeping a distinction in the roles of men and women in marriage, those who are traditionalists tend to have a stricter idea of what exactly submission of the wife entails.

 

[Rich_C]

Okay, I give you permission to make blond jokes.

Two blondes were sitting on their porch enjoying the night sky when the first blonde asked the other, “which do you think is farther away: the moon or Florida?” The second blonde gestured at the moon and replied, “Duh! Can you see Florida?!”

So let me get this straight:

Traditional Catholic has nothing to do with peoples Knowledge of the Bible, Catechism and Tradition.

In my humble experience, “traditional” Catholics are much bettered catechized and much more knowledgable about Church history than your average Catholic. You would have that in common.

It has to do with their mass preference?

Not always, but generally when Catholics develop the deep connection to Catholic tradition that defines a “traditional” Catholic, they also want to worship at the Mass that most clearly expresses that tradition.

Also, not agreeing with VII?

Many see it as a bad moment for the Church but accept it’s teachings anyway because they want to be good Catholics. A few actually reject it, but not many I’ve met. Personally, I accept all the Church’s councils and I am not much troubled about Vatican II either way; it doesn’t stop me from praying and worshipping and learning my faith the same as Catholics did before. It didn’t mandate the laity doing anything differently than before, as far as I can tell, so I’m being faithful to it just the way I am.

I am 33 I only know the Vatican 2. I guess I am dumb.

Why would you say that? I’m younger than you even.

I thought a Catholic has to be in line with the Church’s doctrine, other wise that is heresy. I don’t want to be labeled as a heretic. I just want to be around people that can help me with doctrine, scripture and tradition.

You’re right, we do have to hold everything that the Church proposes for our belief. That’s not necessarily relevent to talking about different Catholic spiritualities and lifestyles. Where did your concerns about heresy come from? The Vatican II comment? The only person who said “traditional” Catholics don’t accept Vatican II was someone who is clearly not familiar with “trads.” (no offense Neofight, but you did phrase it as a question)

I hope that clears things up a bit. Traditional Catholicism is really about living by a more timeless spirituality (especially for priests and laity) than what is commonly found nowadays. It’s perfectly faithful to Holy Mother Church.

 

[loko]

Mel Gibsons mob is Traditional (pre-Vatican II)

 

[clem456]

I am just wondering what the definition is? It just seem to me, at my parish, that we have alot of uneducated Catholics regarding our faith. I don’t know why they have time to busy themselves with actives of their enjoyment but never have any time to join bible studies and Catholicism classes. Thats all. Not politically. Scripturally.

In my opinion, all of us would do well to lose the categories. In your OP you classified yourself as “conservative”, and I understand you are using that label to describe what you believe. However many use labels to set themselves apart on both ends of the spectrum.

In your parish, in all parishes, there are folks we meet who we think are poorly formed in their faith, or who cannot articulate it, or defend it, or who are there merely because their spouse drags them there. Our job is not to point that out, but to witness to them, to teach them, AND…learn from them the things we cannot see at first glance. There are people in my parish who I mistakenly believed were ignorant of Catholicism, butI later discovered I could learn a lot from. A humbling experience. We must see others as God sees them. Categorizing ourselves as one type of Catholic or another makes this last task difficult, separates us from one another. If we are going to serve, we should -not- insist that others believe and articulate in the same way we do, or that the parish satisfy our tastes in liturgy etc…Sometimes that is possible to have, but insisting on those things is to take the easy way. And that perfect parish does not exist. Evangelization is messy and challenging

 

[clem456]

Mel Gibsons mob is Traditional (pre-Vatican II)

Mel Gibson has a mob?

 

[thewanderer]

Here’s a similar thread I started earlier this year, in case you’re interested.

forums.catholic-questions.org/private.php?

 

[thewanderer]

In case you’re interested, here’s a thread I started earlier this year asking the same question.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=652814

 

[maryjk]

:blush:Hello-

Obviously from one of my previous post, I don’t understand what its meant as a Traditional Catholic? I am conservative person. I am also so happy but the Grace of God I was born Catholic. Please explain friends. I have no idea, honestly.

It really depends on where you are when you are talking about it.

Here, on CAF, traditional Catholics prefer the EF. If you don’t prefer that form of the Mass, you are not a traditional Catholic. Others will claim that isn’t true. But wait until you post in the Traditional Catholic Forum. It is for those that prefer the EF. Others are welcome, but you will not be considered traditional.

In the real world, if you follow the teachings of the Catholic Church you will be called a traditional Catholic. Others will call you a conservative Catholic.

I work at our Parish, home school, attend Mass whenever possible (all Sundays and Holy Days), pray regularly, use NFP, go to an NFP only GYN. Here I am a normal, everyday Catholic. At my parish? I am VERY traditional.

 

[thewanderer]

Just to clarify, there was a thread recently where the moderator specifically came out and said that the traditional Catholic forum isn’t for those who prefer the EF. It is a forum for discussing the traditions of the Church. I’ll try to find it.

 

[TrueLight]

Just to clarify, there was a thread recently where the moderator specifically came out and said that the traditional Catholic forum isn’t for those who prefer the EF. It is a forum for discussing the traditions of the Church. I’ll try to find it.

It isn’t only for those who prefer the EF.

Here is the list of topics from the sticky.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=579186

* Extraordinary Form of the Liturgy
* Church History
* Classics of Western Spirituality
* Classics in Western Theology
* Customs
* Church writings
* The Fathers of the Church
* The Desert Fathers & Mothers
* The great schools of Western spirituality
* The stories of the saints
* Western religious orders and religious congregations

In the real world, if you follow the teachings of the Catholic Church you will be called a traditional Catholic.

I’m curious about this. In my real world, if you say you are a traditional Catholic, you are a traditionalist. However, since I rarely attend the OF, I’m not quite sure how traditional Catholics are described outside of traditional parishes/masses.

 

[maryjk]

Just to clarify, there was a thread recently where the moderator specifically came out and said that the traditional Catholic forum isn’t for those who prefer the EF. It is a forum for discussing the traditions of the Church. I’ll try to find it.

Yes, he did that BECAUSE most posters acted as though those of us that didn’t prefer the EF weren’t really welcome.

We’ll see if it changes.

 

[Rich_C]

It really depends on where you are when you are talking about it.

Here, on CAF, traditional Catholics prefer the EF. If you don’t prefer that form of the Mass, you are not a traditional Catholic. Others will claim that isn’t true. But wait until you post in the Traditional Catholic Forum. It is for those that prefer the EF. Others are welcome, but you will not be considered traditional.

In the real world, if you follow the teachings of the Catholic Church you will be called a traditional Catholic. Others will call you a conservative Catholic.

I work at our Parish, home school, attend Mass whenever possible (all Sundays and Holy Days), pray regularly, use NFP, go to an NFP only GYN. Here I am a normal, everyday Catholic. At my parish? I am VERY traditional.

At CAF it seems like it’s all about which Mass you attend, but that’s because we can only talk about ideas and which Mass we attend here. It’s harder to talk about spirituality in writing on the Internet, but I think that is at the heart of the definition of “traditional Catholic.”

Fr. Robert Barron, who many will know from his TV series “Catholicism,” coined the term “Beige Catholicism.” He meant that modern strand of Catholicism that places so much emphasis on orthodoxy that it neglects beauty, mystery, and piety.

I fell in love with the truth of the Faith, but for years I felt a disconnect because it’s power and beauty wasn’t communicated by its form. When I discovered the traditional Mass and all the popular piety that surrounds it, I finally found the form that matched the fact.

I don’t know if that makes sense in re-reading. Like I said, I think it’s difficult to talk about this, it’s more like a feeling than a thought much of the time. To an extent (and I don’t mean to act clique-ish) you just kind of “get it” or you don’t.

 

[TrueLight]

Yes, he did that BECAUSE most posters acted as though those of us that didn’t prefer the EF weren’t really welcome.

We’ll see if it changes.

I noticed there really is a MOVEMENT to change the Trad forum into something else. It is almost as if we shouldn’t discuss the EF or anything that would give the Trad forum a distinct, trad feel.

Well see if it changes.

 

[maryjk]

I’m curious about this. In my real world, if you say you are a traditional Catholic, you are a traditionalist. However, since I rarely attend the OF, I’m not quite sure how traditional Catholics are described outside of traditional parishes/masses.

The nearest EF is two hours and a time zone away. Want to attend Mass at 8am, you need to leave your house at 4:30. I don’t know anyone that regularly travels to an EF mass.

If you are not attending an EF mass, traditional mean following ALL of the teachings of the Church. Using NFP if you need to avoid pregnancy. Never missing a Holy Day at Mass. Maybe home schooling. Using or at least owning a Baltimore Catechism. Being part of the rosary prayer group or some other prayer/bible study. Having a traditional marriage. That sort of thing.

That is traditional outside of CAF and those that only attend the EF.

 

[TrueLight]

The nearest EF is two hours and a time zone away. Want to attend Mass at 8am, you need to leave your house at 4:30. I don’t know anyone that regularly travels to an EF mass.

If you are not attending an EF mass, traditional mean following ALL of the teachings of the Church. Using NFP if you need to avoid pregnancy. Never missing a Holy Day at Mass. Maybe home schooling. Using or at least owning a Baltimore Catechism. Being part of the rosary prayer group or some other prayer/bible study. Having a traditional marriage. That sort of thing.

That is traditional outside of CAF and those that only attend the EF.

I would agree that describes a traditional Catholic as well. However, I still maintain that this love of tradition usually translates to attendance at an EF, if possible.