What Is a Just Wage?

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blackforest

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According to the Catechism:
2434 A just wage is the legitimate fruit of work. To refuse or withhold it can be a grave injustice. In determining fair pay both the needs and the contributions of each person must be taken into account. “Remuneration for work should guarantee man the opportunity to provide a dignified livelihood for himself and his family on the material, social, cultural and spiritual level, taking into account the role and the productivity of each, the state of the business, and the common good.” Agreement between the parties is not sufficient to justify morally the amount to be received in wages.
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What would a just wage look like in our society? How should it be measured and calculated? What factors should go into how much it is?
 
Enough to meet needs and live with dignity.

In Matthew 20:1-16, the Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard, each worker was paid “what is just,” which was what met their material needs, whether they worked long or short hours.
 
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I appreciate the “high level” perspective, however, coming up with a just wage requires digging into specifics. I asked this on another thread…how would you answer?

If you were an employer with many employees, how would you take into account “monthly living expenses”? Assume you are the HR VP for Walmart, and you have 2 people to stock shelves:

Employee “A” is 18, lives at home with his parents
Employee “B” is 35, has 3 children and a wife, who also works part time
Do you have an hourly wage that is different for each worker? Does the employee’s need for insurance, car, cell phone, daycare also impact the wage? Or do you overpay the younger worker beyond his needs?
 
Honestly, we need to do something about all these adults in entry-level jobs. It’s ridiculous for 35 year-olds to be working at the same level as teenagers.
 
That’s the hard part.

I think part of it would be to get immigration under control because a lot of these adults barely speak English.
 
Do you think there are less jobs for younger people because of older adults applying for entry level.jobs? Hardly a livable wage for someone with a family I guess
 
In line with both Church teaching and legal requirements, (i.e. it is illegal to discriminate based on age or marital status), a Catholic employer may be best off paying everyone at a minimum like Employee B. Employee A would hopefully make the right choice and save that surplus for housing, education, or starting a business. But we can’t micromanage the latter.
 
I believe that a just wage is a wage commensurate with the work being performed, and is at least partially dependent on who the job is intended for.

Take, for example, a fast-food worker. The intended worker for that job is High School students. It’s an entry-level position meant to get the person some work experience and some pocket money.

Now, consider a manager of a fast-food restaurant. That job requires significantly more experience and knowledge, and comes with far more responsibility. Managers should be paid a rate which reflects those necessities.

This is where we hit the difficulty though. While it would be wonderful for the manager, and even the lower employees, to make enough to live on (rent, food, utilities, etc.), the restaurant cannot shell out all of its profits to the workers. They have to pay for the land, upkeep, etc. So, the amount that an employee can be paid is dependent on the amount of business done. To increase wages there are two options: Increase the amount of business done, or increase the individual cost. The first is difficult, especially in our fast food restaurants. Generally speaking, their business remains fairly consistent. It is hard to entice new people to start eating at one. The second is easier to accomplish, but more difficult to predict. If the restaurant raises their prices to pay everybody a livable wage, they may reach a point where the cost is too great for the product being provided, and people will stop going there. This would put everyone out of a job.

The tl;dr is that its an incredibly complex topic, and while it would be wonderful if each job provided a livable wage to every single employee, that just not a realistic expectation. This is especially true when looking at what are typically considered first time jobs.

Personally, I agree with Redbetta. It would be great to see those types of jobs reserved for younger people, with the adults moving into more managerial position. Sadly, due to the overwhelmingly large number of under-educated or under-employed adults in our society, that’s just not how things are working out. The adults are generally better employees, so it makes sense that the companies would want to hire them; but that doesn’t change the economics of how those places are run and how difficult it would be to provide a livable wage for everyone.
 
I wasn’t talking about a just wage.

I am pretty sure it is against the law to pay a 35 year-old more more than a teenager for doing the same job.

Instead of talking about wages, we should be getting adults who should have the skills and experience by now to know how to do something other than flipping burgers out of these dead-end teenager jobs.
 
Listen, I am posting on my phone in between studying. I am not playing a data-war with you. I am speaking from my own experience coming from an immigrant family.
 
But in this scenario, the wage itself is the discriminating factor. It supports someone who does not have a lot of financial responsibilities, which kind of meets the requirements of the CCC. In other words, its a just wage for some.

Hypothetically, lets say a person who is 50 gets laid off from their $200K per year job, and has several kids in college, an elderly parent in their care. If the only job they can get is at Walmart, is Walmart required to provide for their financial needs to? If not, what is the demographic the wage should be tailored to? Also, keep in mind, the CCC requires the productivity of the person and the state of the business to be considered. Its entire possible a just wage could be afforded by Walmart, but not (for example) a donut shop. Would you expect a donut shop to pay the same living / just wage to a worker that you expect Walmart to pay?

also, would it be unjust for Walmart to not hire a person to stock shelves in favor of a robot that performs the same function?
 
Also it depends on who the employer is–are we talking about a major corporation with deep pockets whose upper level executives own many expensive homes, drive expensive cars, pay out of pocket for Ivy League colleges for their kids?
Or some little mom-and-pop store where they get by comfortably but not luxuriously.
Are they required to pay a living wage and benefits to the 16 year old who sweeps the floor and mans the register a few hours a week?
 
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
Also it depends on who the employer is–are we talking about a major corporation with deep pockets whose upper level executives own many expensive homes, drive expensive cars, pay out of pocket for Ivy League colleges for their kids?
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That’s a thought. Basing the amount that should be paid on the relative wealth of the employer.

Should that be for everything? If I call a plumber to dig up my basement, should I get a discount for the service as opposed to what the plumber charges Warren Buffett?

Should my restaurant check be based upon my means, and not just what I ordered?
 
Well, it should be much higher than the current minimum wage.

But things like cost of living do make a big difference. $10 will get you more in Alabama than it will in NYC. I don’t have a fixed amount, but it should be adjusted for cost of living expenses depending the area one lives in. A living wage will cost more $$$ in N. Va than it will in West Va.
 
I agree cost of living is a factor, but its a voluntary factor for an employer trying to compete for workers. If a law is passed that arbitrarily requires wages in Northern VA to be higher than wages in West Va, then don’t you think that increase in wages will be negated by the increase in the cost of goods?
 
redbetta said:
adults who should have the skills and experience by now to know how to do something other than flipping burgers
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Heyyyyyyy, whats wrong with flipping burgers? lol And the politically correct term is burger producer.
 
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