What Is a Just Wage?

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Thank you for the clarification.

I don’t feel comfortable making comments about a country’s economy other than the U.S…

You have a lot more history than we do!

Also, you have the reality of the “royals,” and “titles,” so perhaps your “rich” are different than our “rich,” many of whom are self-made millionaires and billionaires who came from poor or middle-class families and worked incredibly hard and made a lot of personal sacrifices and took a lot of risks to earn (not be handed) their millions. In the U.S., we admire self-made billionaires.

Also, in the U.S., the income tax system rewards charitable giving, so many rich people give away a lot of money to worthy causes not just for the tax break, but because they truly believe in those causes. I’m sure we have a our selfish rich people (Scrooge-types) who cling to all of their wealth and “release the hounds” whenever anyone in need has the audacity to approach them for help. But I maintain that the vast majority of U.S. wealthy people use their wealth to help others.

This help can be in the form of giving money to those in need, and/or investing in their business(es) in order to create more jobs.

I’m truly sorry that someone who has 40 million pounds (money) runs such a miserly nursing home. That’s really low. Unfortunately, working in a nursing home will never make you rich, as most of the jobs require minimal school/training. It wouldn’t be right to pay a high school grad with a CNA certificate (nursing aide) the same amount as an R.N. with a Master’s Degree.
 
Peeps…

Why is anger part of the concomitants when anyone questions the wealthy? Than you proceed to defend them by proclaiming them as being philanthropic?

My argument is that life is getting more difficult for the average American…I should include citizens globally. Conservatives have always written these people off as; lazy or plain stupid. But you and I are seeing the real demographics. Just look at small towns, many of those people use to work in good paying manufacturing jobs but have now had to resort to retail work at the local big box store. Those retail positions now provide a fraction of the pay and no benefits. This has also resulted in higher unemployment and greater dependency on government assistance.

Many big retailers will state that they provide benefits. However, what they don’t tell you is that their average worker does not work enough hours during the week to qualify and if they do; their required contributions are cost prohibited. Yet we hear of many of these companies holding billions in cash reserves. If you questions me? Just ask your barista next time your in Starbucks.

Also, look at our sociology? We as citizens voted for a President that unapologetically lies among his many flaws. Yet we bypassed these traits in the hopes that we can return to nationalism and see good paying jobs returning home? There is an underlining message that should be apparent to all of us?

Turn off the television and go get into an Uber. Many of these people are open enough to share their experiences with you if you allow them. Shockingly, you will fine that many of them hold a reputable day job that just doesn’t simply pay the bills. Sadly, you will also find that they may even have a higher education than yourself.

My rebuttal should not be seen as an acrimonious dispute towards the wealthy. Rather a commentary on how conservatives have allowed for the current decadence.
 
Leo2014 said:
My rebuttal should not be seen as an acrimonious dispute towards the wealthy. Rather a commentary on how conservatives have allowed for the current decadence
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So you think we got to where we are in the 18 months Trump has been in office,
nothing to do with 8 prior years of Obama? That’s 96 months.
 
I grew up and now live in a small city surrounded by smaller towns. I spent my teen years in one of those small towns, so I know a lot of people who live in them.

Do you think that most of the people in small towns are not doing well financially, or that they can’t get jobs? Where did you get that idea?

To begin with, many of the people who live in small towns are doing quite well! Many of them are older folks who retired to the small town because they like that lifestyle. They are financially comfortable because of pensions they earned while they were working, or perhaps because they still own a family farm or a family business and draw a small income.

Another group of people who live in small towns are those who have good jobs in the big city, and they moved out to the small town because they like the lifestyles, and the property taxes are less. They also don’t mind a commute because they have a good car.

So living in a small town does not indicate poverty. Many of the people I know who live in small towns are much wealthier than I am!

I am in Illinois, which is not exactly a hotbed of economic growth. But there are plenty of job options other than retail. In our city, there are literally hundreds of jobs in the following areas:
  1. Truck drivers–we have a lot of manufacturing, and truck carrying the goods to the markets need drivers! I heard on a television commercial that there are about a thousand openings for truck driver in our area.
  2. Manufacturing trades–especially welders, pipe fitters, and mechanics.
  3. Health careers–especially CNAs or PCTS, lab, respiratory, dental hygience, xray, and NURSING.
All of these professions pay a decent wage with benefits. Although some of the health careers require a Bachelor’s Degree, most of what I have listed does NOT require a degree, but a certificate. (e.g., in the lab, there are two-year degree professionals called medical technicians, and there are 4 year-degree professionals called medical technologists).

Here’s the problem:
  1. Truckers have to have a clean record, which eliminates all the people who got tangled up in drug selling.
  2. The skilled trades are physically demanding work, and many people who try these fields can’t hack the demands on their body.
  3. The health careers require punctuality, reliability, and self-sacrifice, and some people just can’t handle a regular schedule and all the rules.
There are plenty of jobs. Some people just can’t manage to acquire the education and skills they need to get these jobs, so they are more limited. Sometimes they aren’t capable mentally or physically of getting those skills. Others were born into poverty and find it difficult to break out of that lifestyle. Other mess up their lives by getting arrested.

And…others just don’t want to work as long as they can draw a government check, gov. housing, gove, food, and gov. health care. I can’t say I blame them. I do tend to feel like a fool sometimes going to work.
 
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Peeps…

It is not my intention to taint the Norman Rockwell image many Americans have of small town life. In the last decade, I have handled many corporate dissolutions. Therefore, the vignettes I am providing are not simple conjectures.

However, you bring up an interesting dynamic towards the “Just Wage” argument; Pensions.

Fewer companies these days offer pensions. The ones that do offer; what is the likelihood that you will be able to accrue the needed time to qualify? Many of technologies biggest companies have employees that stay on average for three years. Companies are transitioning to 401Ks and the majority will not match your contributions anymore. Besides, many corporate entities are trying to dissolve legacy obligations…meaning they would like to get rid of their obligation towards paying you beyond your working years.

Most recipients of pensions that I have encountered are government workers. I have found that when I encounter one in their mid-forties or older, they are simply counting the days to when they can stay home; nothing wrong with leisure. But are pensions truly “earned”? I mean doesn’t your employer pay you a wage for the effort you provide today? Why should they be concerned with your future? What if you live to be in your nineties? That will mean that your employer has paid you for more time than you have ever worked for them!

Of course there are “lazy” people that are only out to seize any opportunity that they are presented. What conservatives fail to notice is that rich are doing the same thing…
 
Leo2014 said:
Many big retailers will state that they provide benefits. However, what they don’t tell you is that their average worker does not work enough hours during the week to qualify and if they do; their required contributions are cost prohibited. Yet we hear of many of these companies holding billions in cash reserves. If you questions me? Just ask your barista next time your in Starbucks.
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That’s definitely something I noticed. Working low wage jobs, companies would tout the great benefits they had. But you had to work over 40 hours a week on average to get them, and no one did. People who approached that level would have their hours cut until they were below the average.

One thing I think people miss - and that would help - is that many of these jobs also have availability requirements. In my experience your available hours need to be about double what you’ll actually get, maybe more. If you’re not available, you’ll get your hours cut.

That can make taking on a second job or trying to go to school a much bigger issue, because taking on a second job means you’re not as available for the first, so they’ll cut your hours back for not being available when they want you to work. At the worst case I’ve seen where multiple jobs will say you MUST be available to work on certain peak hours.
 
Leo2014 said:
Fewer companies these days offer pensions. The ones that do offer; what is the likelihood that you will be able to accrue the needed time to qualify? Many of technologies biggest companies have employees that stay on average for three years. Companies are transitioning to 401Ks and the majority will not match your contributions anymore. Besides, many corporate entities are trying to dissolve legacy obligations…meaning they would like to get rid of their obligation towards paying you beyond your working years.

Most recipients of pensions that I have encountered are government workers. I have found that when I encounter one in their mid-forties or older, they are simply counting the days to when they can stay home; nothing wrong with leisure. But are pensions truly “earned”? I mean doesn’t your employer pay you a wage for the effort you provide today? Why should they be concerned with your future? What if you live to be in your nineties? That will mean that your employer has paid you for more time than you have ever worked for them!

Of course there are “lazy” people that are only out to seize any opportunity that they are presented. What conservatives fail to notice is that rich are doing the same thing…
Click to expand...
I know a person who worked for the State of Kentucky starting at age 18. She “retired” at 38 with a full pension. Its an unsustainable model where higher and higher taxes will have to be extracted to pay for the unfunded liabilities of government worker pensions like hers. Illinois has a similar issue, as do many municipalities. This will probably result in bankruptcy at some point. I don’t blame the worker…I blame the elected official. I also don’t support federal bailouts of states or municipalities to cover these liabilities.
 
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