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AnnaTheCat
Guest
Yes, and where I would differ from the leftists is that I think the answer is less government control in most cases. Where I differ from most conservatives is the ‘move along, nothing to see here’ narrative.
What Is a Just Wage?
- Thread starter blackforest
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Peeps
Guest
There have been injustices against almost every group of people in the U.S.
Africans who were taken from their country and forced into slavery in the U.S. are still suffering the effects of 400 years of slavery. Native Americans were treated as “savages” and eventually conquered and sent to reservations. Italians, Irish, Poles, and many other European peoples were mocked and denied many opportunities. Jews who came to the U.S. discovered that there were plenty of people who still held centuries old anit-Semite attitudes. German Americans were reviled after WWII. Asian Americans were imprisoned in concentration camps during WWII. Hispanics currently are looked down upon and told “Speak English.” And Middle Eastern Americans face prejudice from fellow Americans who fear that they are terrorists.
And then there are the injustices against “hillbillies”, people with various medical conditions, homosexuals, Southerners, blondes, fat people, old people, Catholics, fundamentalists…
…basically everyone suffers.
I’ll agree that because of slavery, black people probably have a good case for claiming the most heinous injustice, although the Native Americans might tie with them.
However–currently and since the Civil Rights Act of 1964, ALL American citizens are entitled to a free public education.
Yes, not all public schools are equal. I attended two different high schools–two years in the city and two years in the country. The country school lacked so much (e.g., chemistry labs, anatomy and physiology class, lots of humanities electives, a debate team, etc.) that the city school had.
I know that many of the schools with a large percentage of African Americans are in poorer areas of the city, and the teachers are sometimes young and inexperienced. In our city, the most-experienced teachers have the privilege of asking to be transferred to the schools in the wealthier neighborhoods, which means many more resources are available to them (e.g., parents who are able to volunteer at the school, or donate extra supplies to the class, etc.).
But there are also plenty of really good schools with primarily minority enrollment in the inner city that produce a large percentage of high-achieving students.
I think things are better than they were 50 years ago, and definitely better than 100 years ago. And I think that 50 years from now, everyone will have even more opportunities in the U.S.
At the risk of sound sounding high and mighty, I would remind us all that anyone can go to a library and check out books to make up for a poor school, a rotten teacher, or a lack of good parenting. If you can read, you can learn.
And remember that the high school diploma earned from a low-achieving school is still a high school diploma, and will make it possible for the graduate to apply for jobs, college, trade school, the military, etc.–all of which are good starts to eventually entering a higher-paying job and earning that “living wage” that is virtually impossible to get without a high school diploma.
Africans who were taken from their country and forced into slavery in the U.S. are still suffering the effects of 400 years of slavery. Native Americans were treated as “savages” and eventually conquered and sent to reservations. Italians, Irish, Poles, and many other European peoples were mocked and denied many opportunities. Jews who came to the U.S. discovered that there were plenty of people who still held centuries old anit-Semite attitudes. German Americans were reviled after WWII. Asian Americans were imprisoned in concentration camps during WWII. Hispanics currently are looked down upon and told “Speak English.” And Middle Eastern Americans face prejudice from fellow Americans who fear that they are terrorists.
And then there are the injustices against “hillbillies”, people with various medical conditions, homosexuals, Southerners, blondes, fat people, old people, Catholics, fundamentalists…
…basically everyone suffers.
I’ll agree that because of slavery, black people probably have a good case for claiming the most heinous injustice, although the Native Americans might tie with them.
However–currently and since the Civil Rights Act of 1964, ALL American citizens are entitled to a free public education.
Yes, not all public schools are equal. I attended two different high schools–two years in the city and two years in the country. The country school lacked so much (e.g., chemistry labs, anatomy and physiology class, lots of humanities electives, a debate team, etc.) that the city school had.
I know that many of the schools with a large percentage of African Americans are in poorer areas of the city, and the teachers are sometimes young and inexperienced. In our city, the most-experienced teachers have the privilege of asking to be transferred to the schools in the wealthier neighborhoods, which means many more resources are available to them (e.g., parents who are able to volunteer at the school, or donate extra supplies to the class, etc.).
But there are also plenty of really good schools with primarily minority enrollment in the inner city that produce a large percentage of high-achieving students.
I think things are better than they were 50 years ago, and definitely better than 100 years ago. And I think that 50 years from now, everyone will have even more opportunities in the U.S.
At the risk of sound sounding high and mighty, I would remind us all that anyone can go to a library and check out books to make up for a poor school, a rotten teacher, or a lack of good parenting. If you can read, you can learn.
And remember that the high school diploma earned from a low-achieving school is still a high school diploma, and will make it possible for the graduate to apply for jobs, college, trade school, the military, etc.–all of which are good starts to eventually entering a higher-paying job and earning that “living wage” that is virtually impossible to get without a high school diploma.
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Theo520
Guest
This is a very warped understanding of ‘specialization’ in trade and economics in general.
FYI, workers in those export factories get paid more than workers in businesses only producing goods for local consumption.
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Eric_Hyom
Guest
Eric_Hyom:
When you accept a wage based purely on greed; then poor people suffer. Rich people know that fans are passionate about their sport, and it is easy to exploit passionate people.
About a billion people go to bed hungry, about half the world lives on less than $2.5 per day. About twenty thousand children die needlessly every day as a result of grinding poverty, preventable disease and starvation.
It is the poor and needy who need the just wage.
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Eric_Hyom
Guest
OK so the Apple man pays Chinese workers slightly more than the going Chinese rate. This is not for the benefit of Chinese workers, it is not for the benefit of Apple customers. America may not benefit much either, because it takes jobs away from American workers
This greed is for the benefit of the Apple billionaires and their shareholders.
God will be the final judge of the just wage.
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Theo520
Guest
All employers hire people for the benefit of their customers,
This applies to the corner store as well as apple.
You lack a grasp on how things work, and why.
You are far to quick to judge who is a sinner.
This applies to the corner store as well as apple.
You lack a grasp on how things work, and why.
You are far to quick to judge who is a sinner.
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Eric_Hyom
Guest
If this were true, then the price of iphones should reduce dramatically, and there would be no billionaires.
I have a small understanding of how things work, that does not mean I have to agree with it.
From reading the Bible, it seems God is more concerned about the plight of the poor. We are all created by the same God, and I just feel we should be more concerned about all of God’s people.
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Peeps
Guest
May I ask you and others who agree with you–what exactly would you have us do? Would you please write out several steps that regular, non-billionaire people in the United States can do that would truly help people to begin earning a “just” wage?
I assume “prayer” is on that list. But what other steps can we take? Please write them down.
Thanks!
I assume “prayer” is on that list. But what other steps can we take? Please write them down.
Thanks!
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DarkLight
Guest
Try to buy from companies that pay a better wage, when you can. Support charities that encourage independence rather than just rushing people into the first minimal job. For third world charities, support those providing resources to make a living and not just temporary aid to chronic poverty.
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Socrates92
Guest
If it is our “poor” who are buying tickets at hundreds of bucks a pop to see a few hours of professional sports, I don’t think we have to worry much about them, at least not economically.
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Socrates92
Guest
On the other hand, goods are still produced more cheaply, so an equivalent wage goes further, barring fancy government monetary shenanigans.
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Gorgias
Guest
“About $10 more an hour than I’m currently making,” would be the answer I’d expect to hear from just about anyone…
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Socrates92
Guest
Oh come now, we can do better than that. Why not make it $20/hr more?
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Gorgias
Guest
Nah… that would be an argument for the sin of greed.
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Socrates92
Guest
Regardless of where the intent is (you’re right - it’s probably not to help workers), the workers benefit none-the-less from Apple bidding for their labour. “America” is a broad category. The special interests (ie: previous factory workers) may lose out, but the average American would benefit from the cheaper goods.
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Socrates92
Guest
Nah… Greed only kicks in at $30/hr more.
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Gorgias
Guest
LOL… can I provide your contact info as a reference to my boss?
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Peeps
Guest
This is kind of tough because we don’t know which companies pay a better wage.
There aren’t a lot of “Mom and Pop” stores in our area. There is a Mom and Pop grocery store that a high school friend of mine owns. I am seriously considering shopping there, as Mr. Schnuck (that’s a real name for those of you who don’t live in the Midwest) has closed several of his stores in our city, all of them in “poor” areas, leaving “food deserts” behind and hardship for those who have to walk to the grocery store to either shop or work.
Mr. Schnuck didn’t mince words–“these store locations aren’t profitable.” Grrr! My question is, why doesn’t he MAKE them profitable by adjusting inventory and services to save money? Or perhaps consider all his stores in one area as one big store, and share the profits from the wealthier locations with the poorer locations? Grrr.
I was at the Schnucks that is closing yesterday and it was so sad to talk to the employees who are losing their jobs and don’t have cars so they can’t easily get to the other locations to work. Yes, Socrates92, as you were told many posts earlier, people in the U.S. who don’t have cars greatly reduce their options–it’s just not possible in a city like ours where bus service is spotty and ends by 10 p.m. Most people without cars are quite stranded within a small area close to their home.
However, at the profitable Schnucks where I currently shop, many of my friends work, and if people like me stop shopping there, they will eventually lose their jobs if Mr. Schnuck decides to close their store!
Also, an employee of the “profitable” Schnucks told me that the store that is closing loses a large amount of profits due to shoplifting and theft. Sadly, one problem in poorer areas of a city is increased crime. Mr. Schnuck could keep the store open by implementing tougher security measures, including armed guards and plain-clothes detectives who patrol the store and root out the miscreants. But then many people, especially minorities, feel like they are being judged or discriminated againt and treated like criminals. The friendly neighborhood feeling of the store will be gone.
Sigh.
So the point of this rambling post is that we DO think about where we shop. But it’s not easy to figure out what the best option is.
There aren’t a lot of “Mom and Pop” stores in our area. There is a Mom and Pop grocery store that a high school friend of mine owns. I am seriously considering shopping there, as Mr. Schnuck (that’s a real name for those of you who don’t live in the Midwest) has closed several of his stores in our city, all of them in “poor” areas, leaving “food deserts” behind and hardship for those who have to walk to the grocery store to either shop or work.
Mr. Schnuck didn’t mince words–“these store locations aren’t profitable.” Grrr! My question is, why doesn’t he MAKE them profitable by adjusting inventory and services to save money? Or perhaps consider all his stores in one area as one big store, and share the profits from the wealthier locations with the poorer locations? Grrr.
I was at the Schnucks that is closing yesterday and it was so sad to talk to the employees who are losing their jobs and don’t have cars so they can’t easily get to the other locations to work. Yes, Socrates92, as you were told many posts earlier, people in the U.S. who don’t have cars greatly reduce their options–it’s just not possible in a city like ours where bus service is spotty and ends by 10 p.m. Most people without cars are quite stranded within a small area close to their home.
However, at the profitable Schnucks where I currently shop, many of my friends work, and if people like me stop shopping there, they will eventually lose their jobs if Mr. Schnuck decides to close their store!
Also, an employee of the “profitable” Schnucks told me that the store that is closing loses a large amount of profits due to shoplifting and theft. Sadly, one problem in poorer areas of a city is increased crime. Mr. Schnuck could keep the store open by implementing tougher security measures, including armed guards and plain-clothes detectives who patrol the store and root out the miscreants. But then many people, especially minorities, feel like they are being judged or discriminated againt and treated like criminals. The friendly neighborhood feeling of the store will be gone.
Sigh.
So the point of this rambling post is that we DO think about where we shop. But it’s not easy to figure out what the best option is.
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Socrates92
Guest
Are you looking for a $29 raise? Sure, I’ll put in a good word for ya.
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RCIAGraduate
Guest
Would this work as a good compromise to the “Just Wage” dilemma in the US?
I also agree with @Augustinian’s point on addressing basic needs, if we can somehow develop a system (or even a mechanism) that ensures basic needs are met (i.e living costs such as housing, health care and transportation to name some), then that would also help out a lot.
And ideally something should be done to provide a pathway that helps for low-wage workers and struggling families climb up the ladder and achieve a measure of economic stability. Perhaps, it’s time to bring back apprenticeships and vo-tech on a larger scale (look to Germany and Switzerland?) as one avenue to promote sustainable opportunities. Additionally, could a massive tax reform (I’m specifically thinking of phasing the corporate income tax) help compliment a minimum wage hike while promoting growth and limiting any deleterious effects such a raise may have?
- Institute a primary minimum wage ($15-$20/hr), one that can ideally support an individual if not an entire family through full-time employment.
- Create a secondary wage for special populations such as teenagers and youth who are in need of gaining experience, as well as disabled and senior folks who are simply looking to get part-time work to supplement their benefits.
I also agree with @Augustinian’s point on addressing basic needs, if we can somehow develop a system (or even a mechanism) that ensures basic needs are met (i.e living costs such as housing, health care and transportation to name some), then that would also help out a lot.
And ideally something should be done to provide a pathway that helps for low-wage workers and struggling families climb up the ladder and achieve a measure of economic stability. Perhaps, it’s time to bring back apprenticeships and vo-tech on a larger scale (look to Germany and Switzerland?) as one avenue to promote sustainable opportunities. Additionally, could a massive tax reform (I’m specifically thinking of phasing the corporate income tax) help compliment a minimum wage hike while promoting growth and limiting any deleterious effects such a raise may have?
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