Ditto. To the OP, someone that dies for their faith. Since Père Jacques Hamel was killed celebrating Mass, he may have very well been killed for that reason. I have no problem with calling him a martyr.Here’s the conventional take on it, from the Catholic Encyclopedia:
newadvent.org/cathen/09736b.htm
The key sentence seems to be this one:
…a martyr, or witness of Christ, is a person who, though he has never seen nor heard the Divine Founder of the Church, is yet so firmly convinced of the truths of the Christian religion, that he gladly suffers death rather than deny it.
From the same article, Saint Cyprian is quoted as adding the following qualification:
…he cannot be a martyr who is not in the Church; he cannot attain unto the kingdom who forsakes that which shall reign there
According to Father Mitch Pacwa Martyrs go straight to heaven. That being said I and many other people still pray for the souls of those who have been killed because of impulse.Does martyrdom guarantee heaven, even bypassing purgatory?
Sharing your feelings but I think the word victim is more apposite given the other posts in the thread,All of the souls lost in the planes and buildings on 9/11 are martyrs in my opinion. I can’t imagine the horror of knowing you’re going to burn to death or jump to your death. If there’s a heaven I know they’re all there. Rip
While I am sure that God would have mercy on anyone in a situation like that, they are not martyrs. A martyr willingly gives up their life defending the truth. While their deaths are a tragedy, they did not die defending the faith. They simply were in the wrong place at the wrong time.All of the souls lost in the planes and buildings on 9/11 are martyrs in my opinion. I can’t imagine the horror of knowing you’re going to burn to death or jump to your death. If there’s a heaven I know they’re all there. Rip
Just being killed while performing a Christian act does not raise to martyrdom. If Fr Hamel was told to stop offering the Mass or die and then refused to out of love for God then he might be declared a martyr. On the other hand, if he was killed with no notice there would be less certainty of his status as a martyr. Martyrdom requires a specific choice to give up ones life, or atleast to accept the risk of death. I don’t know enough about what happened with Fr Hamel to say one way or the other. I know others begged for his life, but do not know if he did or not. I never just assume that someone is a martyr even if their situation seems likely that they are.Ditto. To the OP, someone that dies for their faith. Since Père Jacques Hamel was killed celebrating Mass, he may have very well been killed for that reason. I have no problem with calling him a martyr.
OK so why then are the Holy Innocents called martyrs and listed in the Martyrology? See boston-catholic-journal.com/roman-martrylogy-in-english/roman-martyrology-december-in-english.htm#December_28th massacred for Christ… Same applies to other sif you really study the martyrology. Not for us to judge my friendJust being killed while performing a Christian act does not raise to martyrdom. If Fr Hamel was told to stop offering the Mass or die and then refused to out of love for God then he might be declared a martyr. On the other hand, if he was killed with no notice there would be less certainty of his status as a martyr. Martyrdom requires a specific choice to give up ones life, or atleast to accept the risk of death. I don’t know enough about what happened with Fr Hamel to say one way or the other. I know others begged for his life, but do not know if he did or not. I never just assume that someone is a martyr even if their situation seems likely that they are.
Along the same strain… could a little old lady who did God’s will quietly in her home and suffered quietly for God’s word and plan be considered by God to be a martyr? No one would know of the sacrifices or prayers offered for the love of God??? Does it have to be a violent death???Just being killed while performing a Christian act does not raise to martyrdom. If Fr Hamel was told to stop offering the Mass or die and then refused to out of love for God then he might be declared a martyr. On the other hand, if he was killed with no notice there would be less certainty of his status as a martyr. Martyrdom requires a specific choice to give up ones life, or atleast to accept the risk of death. I don’t know enough about what happened with Fr Hamel to say one way or the other. I know others begged for his life, but do not know if he did or not. I never just assume that someone is a martyr even if their situation seems likely that they are.
My post #10 defines a martyr.What I’m getting here is that a lot of people don’t know what exactly makes one a martyr. Or what martyrdom consists of in the eyes of the church.
It’s a term I think we all use without much thought.
So the martyrology? See my post please. Holy Innocents. The term is wider than your definition as it covers those who died BECAUSE of Jesus. In that case,Herod had them slaughtered to kill the baby Jesus. So the priest died simply because he was for Jesus.My post #10 defines a martyr.
I hear you but thinking of Jesus…, Part of it is that life is TAKEN by others. Hopefully there are many little old ladies such as you describe and I can think of some but they ar enot martyrs.Think of Stephen stoned to death for preaching the gospel? So yes a life taken by violence by others.Along the same strain… could a little old lady who did God’s will quietly in her home and suffered quietly for God’s word and plan be considered by God to be a martyr? No one would know of the sacrifices or prayers offered for the love of God??? Does it have to be a violent death???
I am not judging, but reminding people it is not for us to declare someone a martyr. It is quite possible that he did receive a martyr’s crown, but I think some people claim that others are martyred from a purely emotional standpoint without a theological basis for the declaration.OK so why then are the Holy Innocents called martyrs and listed in the Martyrology? See boston-catholic-journal.com/roman-martrylogy-in-english/roman-martyrology-december-in-english.htm#December_28th massacred for Christ… Same applies to other sif you really study the martyrology. Not for us to judge my friend
I think that would be more along the lines of the “passion bearers” that babochka mentions. There is a difference between someone who suffers for the faith and one killed for the faith. All of us should aim to be passion bearers and willingly suffer to uphold the faith. I don’t think we should all try to actively be martyrs for the faith though.Along the same strain… could a little old lady who did God’s will quietly in her home and suffered quietly for God’s word and plan be considered by God to be a martyr? No one would know of the sacrifices or prayers offered for the love of God??? Does it have to be a violent death???
I gave you the Catholic definition of a martyr.So the martyrology? See my post please. Holy Innocents. The term is wider than your definition as it covers those who died BECAUSE of Jesus. In that case,Herod had them slaughtered to kill the baby Jesus. So the priest died simply because he was for Jesus.