What is a pagan??

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"Pagan, " in the post-modern sense, often implies witchcraft(Wiccans admittedly engage in “white” magic).
 
jewells17 said:
Look up www.christiananswersforthenewage.org and read this persons story of being pagan…it is a great story and what a journey she has been on. She even travels around the USA giving talks about it. Her schedule is on her website.
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I’ve taken a look, and it’s pretty standard and unoriginal propaganda of the sort used by “ex-witch” ministries all the time. The story invariably involves someone who came to Wicca or some other pagan path with a container-ship full of unresolved mental, emotional and/or substance abuse issues, and lo and behold, their lives went on a downward spiral. It must have been Wicca that caused it! The “demons” these folks always claim to have seen are nothing more (or less) than the shadow aspects of their own selves. The biggest misunderstanding people have about our path is that it is about mustering power to weild over others. We seek self-mastery, and the most crucial part of that work is confronting and mastering our own “demons.” It should be obvious that is not work to be undertaken by damaged or fragile people.

Given the utter lack of critical thinking and logic in our society anymore, every correlation automatically becomes iron-clad proof of cause whenever it suits our agenda. To turn this question around for you, let’s view it from a Catholic perspective. We can all agree I think that the priesthood is not for everyone. It’s a heavy responsibility and a tough, though perhaps rewarding calling. When the minority of priests who abuse children come to light, we don’t say that Catholicism “led them into darkness.” We recognize that these were men who were profoundly unsuitable for their path because they were emotionally and spiritually immature and probably also had unresolved abuse issues of their own. Not every path is for everyone, and we’re free to think each other’s religion pure bunk if we must, but really, let’s elevate the conversation above Jack Chick-type tactics.
 
kenofken said:
I’ve taken a look, and it’s pretty standard and unoriginal propaganda of the sort used by “ex-witch” ministries all the time. The story invariably involves someone who came to Wicca or some other pagan path with a container-ship full of unresolved mental, emotional and/or substance abuse issues, and lo and behold, their lives went on a downward spiral. It must have been Wicca that caused it! The “demons” these folks always claim to have seen are nothing more (or less) than the shadow aspects of their own selves. The biggest misunderstanding people have about our path is that it is about mustering power to weild over others. We seek self-mastery, and the most crucial part of that work is confronting and mastering our own “demons.” It should be obvious that is not work to be undertaken by damaged or fragile people.

Given the utter lack of critical thinking and logic in our society anymore, every correlation automatically becomes iron-clad proof of cause whenever it suits our agenda. To turn this question around for you, let’s view it from a Catholic perspective. We can all agree I think that the priesthood is not for everyone. It’s a heavy responsibility and a tough, though perhaps rewarding calling. When the minority of priests who abuse children come to light, we don’t say that Catholicism “led them into darkness.” We recognize that these were men who were profoundly unsuitable for their path because they were emotionally and spiritually immature and probably also had unresolved abuse issues of their own. Not every path is for everyone, and we’re free to think each other’s religion pure bunk if we must, but really, let’s elevate the conversation above Jack Chick-type tactics.
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We are not a bunch of idiots and can make our own decisions about www.christiananswersforthenewage.org . I hope everyone on this thread will read her story and decide for yourself…instead of letting this person just bash her for no reason. Question with boldness when someone does not want you to make up your own mind for yourself and trashes another persons story before you have even had a chance to read it.
Also…www.crossveil.org is a great Catholic website regarding this type of subject…check them both out for yourselves…you’ll love both websites.
 
kenofken said:
I’ve taken a look, and it’s pretty standard and unoriginal propaganda of the sort used by “ex-witch” ministries all the time. The story invariably involves someone who came to Wicca or some other pagan path with a container-ship full of unresolved mental, emotional and/or substance abuse issues, and lo and behold, their lives went on a downward spiral. It must have been Wicca that caused it! The “demons” these folks always claim to have seen are nothing more (or less) than the shadow aspects of their own selves. The biggest misunderstanding people have about our path is that it is about mustering power to weild over others. We seek self-mastery, and the most crucial part of that work is confronting and mastering our own “demons.” It should be obvious that is not work to be undertaken by damaged or fragile people.

Given the utter lack of critical thinking and logic in our society anymore, every correlation automatically becomes iron-clad proof of cause whenever it suits our agenda. To turn this question around for you, let’s view it from a Catholic perspective. We can all agree I think that the priesthood is not for everyone. It’s a heavy responsibility and a tough, though perhaps rewarding calling. When the minority of priests who abuse children come to light, we don’t say that Catholicism “led them into darkness.” We recognize that these were men who were profoundly unsuitable for their path because they were emotionally and spiritually immature and probably also had unresolved abuse issues of their own. Not every path is for everyone, and we’re free to think each other’s religion pure bunk if we must, but really, let’s elevate the conversation above Jack Chick-type tactics.
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Good post. You have an excellent point about the lack of critical thinking in our society - which makes the responses to the above which accuse you of not wanting people to make up their own minds pretty ironic. I’ve found that it is traditionally organized religion that doesn’t want people to think for themselves, though I’m sure more members of said religions will disagree. :rolleyes: Most of us were raised in some sort of faith tradition, generally handed down to us by our families. Some folks eventually question this indoctrination after which, some stay and some leave. Personally, I think questioning is a great idea. It’s why we have brains.

As to the pagan question, there are various definitions, depending on who you ask, but I would think that a basic definition is a polytheist (pantehistic polythiesists as well). Bascially, anyone who worships the “old” gods (small “g”) and don’t believe in a capital “G” god. This would include indigineous peoples everywhere, as well as those of us who believe in these old gods of whatever culture. Someone mentioned demons and I think it would be good to point out that word Demon comes from the Greeks Daimon/Daemon which referred to a wise spirit/energy that was contacted/worshipped/etc in ancient times. The word got its negative connotations from the monotheists, first the Jews then the Christians. Many old gods became demonized in this way. While it is understandable that monotheists would view these gods as evil, it is also understandable why people who don’t believe the monotheists “GOD” see them differently.

ppt-please pardon typos. :o
 
Agreed and thank you man! Now yes Harry Potter’s school did cover alot of basics, infact it was the inspiration for the real life Grey School of Wizardry www.GreySchool.com that said the two schools are still very different as one is fictional based losely on facts and the other is real inspired by fiction.

I saw HP is based losely infact as there are the odd references to occult terms here and there. The Philosopher stone and it’s creator, Ron’s mother calling women of lose virtue scarlet women and so on. Does this make it an occult primar? NO! It also be false to say we don’t get people interested in Paganism because of Harry Potter. Guess what we get people inspired by C. S. Lewis’ Chronicles of Narnia and J. R. R. Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings.

One thing I’d really love to read is an actual story of actual conversion. Somone that was Christian and sincere, not this broken not really taught anything we see in the rest, who becomes and practices actual Paganism not the STRAWpaganism apologists love then becomes Christian. Now that would be worth reading.

Almost forgot here is one such story: After the Magic
 
Swan said:
Good post. You have an excellent point about the lack of critical thinking in our society - which makes the responses to the above which accuse you of not wanting people to make up their own minds pretty ironic. I’ve found that it is traditionally organized religion that doesn’t want people to think for themselves, though I’m sure more members of said religions will disagree. :rolleyes: Most of us were raised in some sort of faith tradition, generally handed down to us by our families. Some folks eventually question this indoctrination after which, some stay and some leave. Personally, I think questioning is a great idea. It’s why we have brains.

As to the pagan question, there are various definitions, depending on who you ask, but I would think that a basic definition is a polytheist (pantehistic polythiesists as well). Bascially, anyone who worships the “old” gods (small “g”) and don’t believe in a capital “G” god. This would include indigineous peoples everywhere, as well as those of us who believe in these old gods of whatever culture. Someone mentioned demons and I think it would be good to point out that word Demon comes from the Greeks Daimon/Daemon which referred to a wise spirit/energy that was contacted/worshipped/etc in ancient times. The word got its negative connotations from the monotheists, first the Jews then the Christians. Many old gods became demonized in this way. While it is understandable that monotheists would view these gods as evil, it is also understandable why people who don’t believe the monotheists “GOD” see them differently.

ppt-please pardon typos. :o
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I love your signature. Really, I wish people could coexist without demonizing others who are different. Also GREAT point about demons. They’ve gotten a really bad rap.
 
As for witchcraft, though, there are no Glindas out there; there is nothing that is benign about being a druid or the like.
 
I will admit not all of us have the legs to pull off Ruby slippers
 
Pagan means a person who follows a polytheistic or pre-Christian religion not a Christian or Muslim or Jew.
 
I was into church work. Some people came into town, came across as converts who were into cult, wore white clothes.

They wanted to join my organization. Later on, I got a very strong prompting to discern them. Three times I didn’t want to. Finally did, and when I began they suddenly turned against me, were hell-bent on opposing me, all sorts of weird things happened. My friend had things happening to her and her family, and mine, and our husbands wanted us out of there.

I could go on more, but am too afraid to. It became very ugly. A relative told us they joined to destroy from within, and ended up doing alot of spiritual damage to us…some time ago.

I ventured into a New Age store and talked about it to the clerk and she said they don’t do ‘evil’ like that.

Gotta be careful…
 
jewells17 said:
We are not a bunch of idiots and can make our own decisions about www.christiananswersforthenewage.org . I hope everyone on this thread will read her story and decide for yourself…instead of letting this person just bash her for no reason. Question with boldness when someone does not want you to make up your own mind for yourself and trashes another persons story before you have even had a chance to read it.
Also…www.crossveil.org is a great Catholic website regarding this type of subject…check them both out for yourselves…you’ll love both websites.
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In general there’s nothing new or interesting in that site. The author is a typical Christian anti-occult preacher, making a buck frightening people with tales of demons. Pretty much every anti-occult preacher from Mike Warnke forward has been a liar - I’m always very suspicious of these people and their ‘testimony’.

Anyone who sets up a website to disprove someone else’s beliefs is far from well-intentioned, in my opinion. Either they are arrogant and self-important touters of their own beliefs, or they’re just in it for the money.
Ian
 
Iolo is old news in North American neo-Druidism - almost completely disregarded by groups like ADF and Keltria, though the British group OBOD still pays him some attention.

Mind you, Williams (as I think his name was, without looking) had the most extensive library of Welsh ancientry in the country, and Welsh scholars still puzzle over which parts of his stuff are actually derived from old lore, and which are made up to fit his personal unitarian inclinations. One thing we can be pretty sure of is that Iolo’s ideas about the gods and ‘God’ don’t bear much resemblance to those of the ancient world.
Ian
 
Yes, but remember that the Druids were the ones whom made All Hallows’ Eve more or less Satanic(though that is not say that it is wrong for a child to go "trick-or-treating). In addition, the Romans expelled the priests in A.D. 78; Boadicea had been defeated about 16 years, so would not that say something about those priests? I doubt that they were exactly benign(unless you feel that “Papa Doc” was saintly!). In addition, do not forget how the Hibernian Celts were prior to St. Patrick’s success.
 
kenofken said:
I will admit not all of us have the legs to pull off Ruby slippers
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I do not understand why Judy Garland thought herself to be ugly. Too bad that she later ruined her life(and, honestly, her looks) through drinking.
 
I apologize about the confusion. I made a comparison to Duvalier because he was a voudou-priest(entailing a mixture of Catholicism, the occult, and a bit of paganism); it was a subconscious joke because it is currently “Black History Month” in the U.S. I called All Hallows’ Eve “more or less satanic” because even though by its name it is technically Catholic, the usual practices upon that day are of pre-Christian Celtic orgin( so obviously with influence by the Druids). In addition, Halloween night is always rumored to be one of witches and [religious] Satanists burning cats and infants and the like. So, it is a lot like Walpurgis’s Night. As for the Irish Celts, I was not suggesting that they were necessarily maleovent.
 
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